Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

Silvanus

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crimson5pheonix

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I mean, I don't blame Oklahoma for the Trail of Tears. Do you blame them for taking the refugees they've already taken?
Well that specifically would be weird as Oklahoma wasn't a state when the trail of tears happened. But for the spirit of your question, if Oklahoma had offered to take all forcibly displaced people with no limit, allowing for the ethnic cleansing of the native Americans, I would blame them. When we talk about Egypt and Jordan, they take very limited scopes of people. Jordan for example have taken a couple thousand sick children, but they took a specific number of a specific class of person for obvious humanitarian reasons alone.
 

Silvanus

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Well that specifically would be weird as Oklahoma wasn't a state when the trail of tears happened. But for the spirit of your question, if Oklahoma had offered to take all forcibly displaced people with no limit, allowing for the ethnic cleansing of the native Americans, I would blame them. When we talk about Egypt and Jordan, they take very limited scopes of people. Jordan for example have taken a couple thousand sick children, but they took a specific number of a specific class of person for obvious humanitarian reasons alone.
There's an interesting question here that I don't think this answer got to the bottom of.

Do you believe that countries have a moral obligation to refuse or strictly limit refugees? That refugees should essentially be forced to remain in their home country, even if it's an active danger zone, because allowing them to leave may assist the perpetrator?
 

crimson5pheonix

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There's an interesting question here that I don't think this answer got to the bottom of.

Do you believe that countries have a moral obligation to refuse or strictly limit refugees? That refugees should essentially be forced to remain in their home country, even if it's an active danger zone, because allowing them to leave may assist the perpetrator?
Of a broad movement, yes. It's pretty case by case. The Biden/Trump corridor would be assisting in ethnic cleansing because the people setting it up are trying to cleanse the area. But contrasting Syria during it's civil war, for example, most refugees were simply in the crossfire, and if it were say the UN setting up a corridor, a broadly 3rd party faction that might reasonably try to return people post conflict, no.
 

tippy2k2

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I'm guessing people have seen this but in case you haven't...


The United States government has fucking DISAPPEARED a legal green card holder for the crime of being outspoken against Israel. At least as of now, no one will say where he is and the guy's lawyer has no idea where his client is. They just came into his student housing and snatched his ass into an unmarked van and drove off into the night...
 
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Gergar12

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Yeah, I am going to stay away from protests. It may not be the best idea to get near them.
 
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Silvanus

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At least as of now, no one will say where he is and the guy's lawyer has no idea where his client is.
There's been update on this; he's held at La Salle in Louisiana.

La Salle was one of 9 Louisiana detention facilities that were exposed as sites of physical & sexual abuse, denial of medicine, & terrible hygiene and nutrition standards last year.
 

Gergar12

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He had yelling matches with the Israeli PM. The entire intel community, the diplomats, and the military, mostly were biased towards Israel for strategic reasons, which include intel-sharing, technology, investment, and even military drone technology, yet he still up against them, and oftentimes US interests.

Obama meanwhile allowed the West Bank Settlements to get out of control, and I don't ever remember a story about an Obama-era yelling match with the Israelis.

And the TikTok-influenced youth with foreign propagandists from China, Russia, Iran, and Qatar voted against him AND his VP, a woman of color who agreed with them more for someone who ended up being worse. Let that sink in. This man doesn't even need the secret service to protect him, he was that good of a president.
 

crimson5pheonix

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He had yelling matches with the Israeli PM. The entire intel community, the diplomats, and the military, mostly were biased towards Israel for strategic reasons, which include intel-sharing, technology, investment, and even military drone technology, yet he still up against them, and oftentimes US interests.

Obama meanwhile allowed the West Bank Settlements to get out of control, and I don't ever remember a story about an Obama-era yelling match with the Israelis.

And the TikTok-influenced youth with foreign propagandists from China, Russia, Iran, and Qatar voted against him AND his VP, a woman of color who agreed with them more for someone who ended up being worse. Let that sink in. This man doesn't even need the secret service to protect him, he was that good of a president.
You can try to whitewash Genocide Joe all you want, the man still tried to ethnically cleanse Gaza.
 

Silvanus

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Israel has launched a series of airstrikes killing over 320 400 Palestinians.

Since the first phase of the Ceasefire ended ~2 weeks ago, Israel has refused to implement the terms of the second phase to which it had earlier agreed, including the withdrawal of troops. They also breached the ceasefire repeatedly by blocking all aid for 2 weeks and launching drone strikes. And now this. Israel has unilaterally shattered it.

Karoline Leavitt has told Fox News that the strikes were carried out in consultation with the US, which had initially been involved in brokering the ceasefire in January.

Israel's government claims this is down to Hamas' refusal to renegotiate the terms of the second phase. Terms to which both Hamas and Israel had already agreed.
 
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Hades

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I find it fascinating that the side that risked(and got) Trump ''for the sake of Gaza'' still think they did the right thing.

Their gamble was to allow Trump to do extreme harm to the US, minority rights, Ukraine, Europe and likely the wider world in exchange for the extremely small chance he might save Gaza. Well they lost this gamble. Trump hasn't saved Gaza, isn't interested in saving Gaza and will never save Gaza. So now you're just left with the doing extreme harm to the US, minority rights, Ukraine, Europe and likely the wider world part. Nothing has been gained. No one has been saved.

They didn't even have any business making this gamble. Trump's past behavior, his disdain for human rights, hatred of Muslims and Bibi's crystal clear preference already made it clear as day Trump wasn't going to save Gaza. It was all risk and no reward which considering the stakes was just foolish.

Saving Gaza wasn't an option on the ballet. Its sad but true. Saving everything else was on the ballot though. What would those people say to a woman being send to death because her life saving abortion got forbidden, or the trans person who gets tyrannized and forced back into the closet, the Ukrainian who gets tortured and murdered by the Russian, and the European citizen who might one day share that fate due to America's betrayal.

''Sorry we schemed to deliver this fate to you but for some reason we thought Donald Trump of all people would do right by Gaza!''