Funny events in anti-woke world

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Phoenixmgs

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And excluding from that list other films, which just happened to have white leads, for some reason.
I was counting from the 2010s. The OscarsSoWhite thing was 2015. You gotta have a time frame, you might disagree and that's fine. Alice in Wonderland for example released in 2010 but was obviously made and cast before 2010.

I'm using the following list:

Maleficent is a prequel so I didn't count it but if you want, you can. I wouldn't count the sequels of anything just because you ain't changing the cast obviously, or even if you time jump and need different actors because of age, you're not changing races of characters from the previous in universe/cannon movie.
 

Trunkage

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There's been more than one Disney remake...

And I used this year's box office to show that just picking 10 sorta random movies isn't the best way to really show anything.


Again, I just used the 1st Google result... Just using the top 10 box office to prove or disprove representation isn't the best way to do so (hence, this year currently being inline). Also, I only said that the Disney remakes have been over-representative of minorities, not the entire movie industry.
Again, you show you can't actually read the results.

The problem is that none of those top ten movies had a single Latino, Hispanic, Arabic, Middle Eastern or North African actor. They were Europeans... you know. The ones that most MAGA people think are white. Eg. I could be persuaded to count Ben Schwartz as the lead for Sonic rather than Jim Carrey. So this could be one one actor with middle eastern descent
 
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tstorm823

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Thus suicide due to distress from gender dysphoria would necessarily be hidden in the general suicide statistics until the discovery of gender dysphoria.
There'd have to be a lot going on to hide that. If acknowledgement and "treatment" of transgenderism genuinely leads to fewer suicides, all other things being equal, the general suicide rate would decrease with it. I understand not all things are equal, but these terms have flourished in a brief period of time correlating to increasing deaths of despair. It's not proof, by any means, I understand that, but every piece of information you have to explain away with credulity makes the sum total even more incredulous.

Your position here includes at minimum that:
A) There were always transgender people, but they were oppressed and written out of history.
B) They've always been in despair, but their conditions would be included in more generalized descriptors and their suicides would be hidden in general suicide statistics.
C) The acknowledgment and treatment of the condition has prevented many suicides, but you can't actually see that drop because the general population was increasingly killing itself.

How many things need be undetectable before you start entertaining the possibility that there wasn't anything to detect?
 

Phoenixmgs

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Again, you show you can't actually read the results.

The problem is that none of those top ten movies had a single Latino, Hispanic, Arabic, Middle Eastern or North African actor. They were Europeans... you know. The ones that most MAGA people think are white. Eg. I could be persuaded to count Ben Schwartz as the lead for Sonic rather than Jim Carrey. So this could be one one actor with middle eastern descent
Not counting the animal movies or movies that already were minorities for obvious reasons.

-Cinderella - No swap
-Beauty and the Beast - No swap
-Peter Pan - Swap
-The Little Mermaid - Swap
-Snow White - Swap

In those 5 movies, you have minorities at 60% representation. If you include the other movies that already feature minorities (not counting animal movies obviously) like Aladdin, Jungle Book, and Mulan, that's 6 out of 8 movies starring minorities. If you add in the upcoming ones that have release dates like Lilo and Stitch and Moana, that's 8 out of 10 movies with minorities. Of course, it's not a criticism that the stuff like Aladdin or Mulan or Moana have minority stars. However, when you look at all the movies and do the representation percentages, white people are under-represented.
 

Thaluikhain

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I was counting from the 2010s. The OscarsSoWhite thing was 2015. You gotta have a time frame, you might disagree and that's fine. Alice in Wonderland for example released in 2010 but was obviously made and cast before 2010.

I'm using the following list:

Maleficent is a prequel so I didn't count it but if you want, you can. I wouldn't count the sequels of anything just because you ain't changing the cast obviously, or even if you time jump and need different actors because of age, you're not changing races of characters from the previous in universe/cannon movie.
Ok, so instead of:

Literally all the remakes...
You've suddenly changed it to "Literally all the remakes...after 2010 not including prequels. Or sequels." And it's still not "Literally all the remakes" even then.
 
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Trunkage

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This is called a conspiracy theory. "I don't have the evidence because they all conspired to cover it up!"
They literal laws banning things like talking about homosexuality, Jews, Protestants/Catholics, trans or atheism

King William Frederick of Prussia hung his kids gay lover to make him straight. He only ever had sex with his wife for making kids and ended life incredibly unhappy

In many countries, they banned anyone found to be gay from military service. It's why many armies were so weak, like against Napoleon
 
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Chimpzy

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Not likely to pass, but it really should. Just think of all the male blue ball energy the regime could harness and funnel into righteous rage.

Something's getting primaried. Medicaid money is wasted on frauds and layabouts, and should go instead to more deserving things.
 
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Agema

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There'd have to be a lot going on to hide that. If acknowledgement and "treatment" of transgenderism genuinely leads to fewer suicides, all other things being equal, the general suicide rate would decrease with it.
This is not true, once you consider the statistics.

Transgender people are very rare and the suicide rates for transgender people, whilst higher than the general population, are still overall low. This means that suicides of transgender people comprise a very small proportion of the total population suicide rate. You couldn't pick out changes in transgender suicide from the background noise of the total population rate.

Your position here includes at minimum that:
A) There were always transgender people, but they were oppressed and written out of history.
B) They've always been in despair, but their conditions would be included in more generalized descriptors and their suicides would be hidden in general suicide statistics.
C) The acknowledgment and treatment of the condition has prevented many suicides, but you can't actually see that drop because the general population was increasingly killing itself.
A)

Understanding of gender is complex. There is evidence it was never as simple as monolithic, fixed, binary gender. Even in our traditional Greco-Roman-based culture, there are some indications of muddied waters, such as eunuchs (who were male sex, but were in some contexts treated as female). There's plenty of evidence of cross-dressing. In some Asian cultures (e.g. Japan, Thailand I think?) there appear to have been groups/people which may not have readily been understood as male or female gender. These may well be reflections of transgender or non-binary, formed by and relevant to their place and time. So when you say they were oppressed, I might say "not always".

And when you say written out of history, I would point out that virtually nothing about humanity was recorded for most of history. We probably have more written output from 2024 than we have from all the years up to 1900 combined. Most of what was recorded is the "big stuff": politics, religion, philosophy, etc. The lives of ordinary people is almost entirely absent - few writers cared enough to record it. That they would record a marginalised group even less likely. And yet even still we do have hints that transgender and non-binary may have existed, albeit through different cultural understanding and expression.

B&C) Already addressed.

It's not proof, by any means, I understand that, but every piece of information you have to explain away with credulity makes the sum total even more incredulous.
...
How many things need be undetectable before you start entertaining the possibility that there wasn't anything to detect?
It's nice that you recognise that a correlation is not proof, but if you are hanging an argument on a peg of your own credulity, what grounds do you have to criticise anyone else's?

I am minded of reading comments from a (I think) Ugandan, who said that homosexuality was a white man's disease, presenting as argument that was no homosexuality in Uganda until the white man arrived. There are a lot of parallels between his argument and yours here.
 

tstorm823

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Understanding of gender is complex. There is evidence it was never as simple as monolithic, fixed, binary gender.
Ok.... again, my argument is not that everyone in history fit rigidly into current society's gender binary, my argument is it's not an innate, biological characteristic. How do you get from "there was never a monolithic, fixed, binary gender" to "we should treat people with cross-sex hormones to make them more comfortable in the gender binary"?
 

tstorm823

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They literal laws banning things like talking about homosexuality, Jews, Protestants/Catholics, trans or atheism

King William Frederick of Prussia hung his kids gay lover to make him straight. He only ever had sex with his wife for making kids and ended life incredibly unhappy

In many countries, they banned anyone found to be gay from military service. It's why many armies were so weak, like against Napoleon
Listing off stories of related concepts runs counter to the claim that all these things were written out of history. If you can do this for homosexuality in history, why can you not do the same thing showing trans people killed and suppressed?
 

BrawlMan

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Not likely to pass, but it really should. Just think of all the male blue ball energy the regime could harness and funnel into righteous rage.
This is nothing new, as the Republican party always attacked porn. The only difference they briefly co-opted with the people thinking their big titty anime girls were going to be taken away Democrats, only for those fools to be manipulated by Republicans and get screwed over. I guarantee those fuckheads are gonna blame Democrats or "mind virus" bullshit, and those same fools will more than likely buy it.



Yet I bet plenty of these male Republicans will access their porn somewhere no ones about or very little. Hypocritical bitches as always.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Ok, so instead of:



You've suddenly changed it to "Literally all the remakes...after 2010 not including prequels. Or sequels." And it's still not "Literally all the remakes" even then.
Yeah, when Disney started race swapping... and people started complaining.

Man, you guys don't even argue in good faith.

I like how you think this proves something, instead of proving how racist Disney was in the 90s
Over correction is also racist, BOTH THINGS ARE RACIST...
 

Agema

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Ok.... again, my argument is not that everyone in history fit rigidly into current society's gender binary, my argument is it's not an innate, biological characteristic. How do you get from "there was never a monolithic, fixed, binary gender" to "we should treat people with cross-sex hormones to make them more comfortable in the gender binary"?
I just don't know how important "innate, biological characteristic" is: it depends what we are talking about. If someone needs to be screened for ovarian or prostate cancer risk it's pretty huge. For whether they wear a skirt or not, or whether they can be a lawyer or not, it's vanishingly small. And then there's stuff in-between.

As for cross-sex hormones and reconstructive surgery, isn't this already covered by existing rules? People can have all sorts of things done by choice if they are able to pay, and people can have all sorts of things done and the state pays if there is appropriate medical justification for their health. Give a person hormones for life and they go out and be a productive member of society, or give them antidepressants for life and they sit in a room on benefits and be unhappy. I can't help but note that the latter seems the worse option for the individual and society.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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Give a person hormones for life and they go out and be a productive member of society, or give them antidepressants for life and they sit in a room on benefits and be unhappy. I can't help but note that the latter seems the worse option for the individual and society.
But Tstorm gets to feel a sense of smug superiority to the second person.
 
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Thaluikhain

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Man, you guys don't even argue in good faith.
:rolleyes:

EDIT: To expand on this, even if we are to put aside the blatant goalposts moving:


Not counting the animal movies or movies that already were minorities for obvious reasons.

-Cinderella - No swap
-Beauty and the Beast - No swap
-Peter Pan - Swap
-The Little Mermaid - Swap
-Snow White - Swap

In those 5 movies, you have minorities at 60% representation. If you include the other movies that already feature minorities (not counting animal movies obviously) like Aladdin, Jungle Book, and Mulan, that's 6 out of 8 movies starring minorities. If you add in the upcoming ones that have release dates like Lilo and Stitch and Moana, that's 8 out of 10 movies with minorities. Of course, it's not a criticism that the stuff like Aladdin or Mulan or Moana have minority stars. However, when you look at all the movies and do the representation percentages, white people are under-represented.
By your own count, between 60% and 80% of minority representation (taking into account solely the lead, and counting Beauty and the Beast as one). Which are different percentages to:

Literally all the remakes...
100%
 
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tstorm823

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Give a person hormones for life and they go out and be a productive member of society, or give them antidepressants for life and they sit in a room on benefits and be unhappy.
I'm quite certain the jury is out on whether either of those situations play out in that way, though I expect the answer to be moot, as we've almost certainly passed the peak of the trend towards weird lefty transhumanism and instead see a surge in young people increasingly finding religion.
 

Phoenixmgs

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:rolleyes:

EDIT: To expand on this, even if we are to put aside the blatant goalposts moving:




By your own count, between 60% and 80% of minority representation (taking into account solely the lead, and counting Beauty and the Beast as one). Which are different percentages to:



100%
Is literally anyone talking about the time before all the race/gender swapping? Why would I base my argument from films from like the 90s or something?

It's at 80% minority representation when that is obviously not the real population representation. Funny if they didn't do any of the swaps, it would be 50/50 representation. You can't complain about misrepresentation in one direction but not the other.