Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter may soon go through

Recommended Videos

Agema

Overhead a rainbow appears... in black and white
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
10,996
7,954
118
You forgot one very important skill that Musk has that no one else does. His ability to get dumb investors to keep investing in him.
One might also note that many companies are no longer straightforward "one share one vote". They often now have voting shares and non-voting shares.

Thus some of them might own a modest proportion of the total shares, but it turns out they own a much greater proportion of the voting shares. For instance, I think Zuckerberg owns a minority of Meta shares, but is effectively unremovable because he owns over 50% of the voting shares.

Musk controls only something like 15% of Tesla votes, although I believe another ~5% are held by close associates. After that, Tesla has a rule that would make removing him require a two-thirds vote. But if Musk controls 20% of the shares, that means the 67% is only likely to come from the remaining 80%. Or in other words, over 80% of external shareholders need to remove him. That's a huge proportion in voting terms: just imagine how unlikely it would be to pass a referendum with that sort of pass rate.

As a judge recently noted, the Tesla board is also heavily compromised - it's full of Musk's associates and cronies. The lack of independence of the board was why the judge rejected a pay packet a year or two back. The shareholders have the votes, but the board still has a substantial amount of power, and Musk can exert additional control of Tesla through that.
 

Worgen

Follower of the Glorious Sun Butt.
Legacy
Apr 1, 2009
16,578
5,151
118
Gender
Whatever, just wash your hands.
International investment seems to be very... "vibes based". Relies on the brand someone builds, the perception of confidence, or other such fluff, rather than anything solid or analytical. Musk can create a recognisable brand (though friendly media does a lot of the hype work and quietly ignores the embarrassing bits).
Everyone wants to be able to get into the next Amazon at the ground floor, plus the whole gamestonks thing isn't helping when it comes to actually thinking.
 

Gergar12

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 24, 2020
5,011
1,002
118
Country
United States
NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE!!!

Note/Full Disclosure: I own around 76 Shares, and I am generally very risk-averse; this is my biggest stock investment (Thanks to my dad's advice).

Again, this is not investment advice. I generally prefer ETFs like ACWI, and firmly VOO, and VTI.

...Seems like we will likely see our first trillionaire.

ShareholderCategoryShares Held% of OutstandingCountryStance on 2025 PlanAnalysis
Vanguard GroupInstitutional2513906817.8United StatesYes LikelyTRUE
BlackRockInstitutional2059600006.3United StatesYes LikelyTRUE
Ron Baron (individual statement)Individual10000000.03United StatesYes LikelyTRUEExtra InfoAnalysis
Elon Musk (individual)Individual41100000012.7United StatesYes (Duh)TRUEInverse Reddit SaysYes
Cathie Wood / ARK InvestInstitutional75000000.23United StatesYesTesla's Biggest Bull.Inverse Cramer SaysNo
Ron Baron / Baron CapitalInstitutional170000000.53United StatesYesTRUEPolyMarketYes (95%)
Robyn Denholm (Tesla Chair)Individual500000.002AustraliaYesTRUEKnown Yes > NoYes
Florida State Board of Administration (SBA)Pension Fund28900000.09United StatesYesTRUELikely Yes > NoYes
State StreetInstitutional1134200003.4United StatesUndecidedUnknown/Possible Swing Vote
Geode Capital ManagementInstitutional648000002United StatesUndecidedUnknown/Possible Swing Vote
Capital World InvestorsInstitutional416000001.3United StatesUndecidedUnknown/Possible Swing Vote
Morgan StanleyInstitutional432000001.3United StatesUndecidedUnknown/Possible Swing Vote
FMR (Fidelity)Institutional299000000.9United StatesUndecidedUnknown/Possible Swing Vote
Retail Investors (aggregate)Retail145000000045VariousUndecidedLikely Majority Yes based on 80% Buy, and 20% Sell ratio
Goldman SachsInstitutional306000000.9United StatesUndecidedUnknown/Possible Swing Vote
Other holders (unlisted ETFs, funds, insiders, brokers)Other / Free Float47725553914.808VariousUndecidedToo hard to analyze
NYC Retirement SystemsPension Fund30000000.09United StatesNoTRUE
CalPERSPension Fund51000000.16United StatesNoTRUE
New York State Common Retirement FundPension Fund35159940.11United StatesNoTRUE
Leo KoguanIndividual / Retail Whale260000000.8Singapore/United StatesNoTRUE
Norges Bank Investment ManagementSovereign Wealth Fund372700001.1NorwayLikely NoTRUE
CalSTRSPension Fund45454550.14United StatesLikely NoTRUE
State Street Global Advisors (ESG funds)Institutional100000000.31United StatesLikely NoTRUE
ISS (Institutional Shareholder Services)Proxy Advisor00United StatesLikely NoTRUE
Glass LewisProxy Advisor00United StatesLikely NoTRUE
I was right.
 
Jun 11, 2023
4,343
2,988
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
First: The role of a CEO/ keeping companies together is an entirely different skillset. It involves managing other managers, agreeing targets, reassuring stakeholders, reporting earnings. In any company, the JD of the CEO has very little to do with the actual meat and potatoes of the work. A restaurant's most senior manager isn't an active chef.

Second: why would you assume he must be good at his job to be successful anyway? One of modern capitalism's most enduring myths is that being wealthy is an indicator of particular skill. The majority of the work, even managerial work, at Tesla will be done by people with less than 0.1% of Musk's wealth.

People like to think he was born into wealth, always bringing up his dad’s “emerald mine”, while ironically ignoring the fact it was an embellished myth.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
14,067
7,270
118
Country
United Kingdom
People like to think he was born into wealth, always bringing up his dad’s “emerald mine”, while ironically ignoring the fact it was an embellished myth.
Uhrm, no. That article merely presents a few quotes Errol Musk gave to biographer Walter Isaacson. But it also doesn't give the full quotes.

He did not fully own a registered mine. But he owned rights to the output of three emerald mines, and described himself as a half-owner of one. He himself stated that it was "under the table", that he didn't register official ownership because "the blacks would take everything". This is quoted in Isaacson's own book, so its ommission from the article above is odd.

Errol Musk stated they had "so much money we couldn't close our safe" due to emerald income. And he meant that literally: one person had to hold the notes inside while a second pushed the safe door.

Young Elon Musk was given emeralds to sell to jewelry shops. Errol Musk stated emerald income paid for Elon's emigration to the US, and paid for his living expenses through higher education. His first company was also started with seed money from the family, & his father arranged the business meetings for it to get its contracts and eventually sell out for millions.

Edit: .... though regardless, this isn't really relevant to his engineering expertise (or lack thereof).
 

Agema

Overhead a rainbow appears... in black and white
Legacy
Mar 3, 2009
10,996
7,954
118
People like to think he was born into wealth, always bringing up his dad’s “emerald mine”, while ironically ignoring the fact it was an embellished myth.
He was educated at private schools as a child. He would surely have paid for his US degree: presumably at higher international rates given his South African heritage. His family can hardly have been poor, or even middle: likely very privileged. Especially by South African standards (as it has much lower GDP/capita than the USA).

So at minimum Musk's family may have been "only" upper middle class, rather than elites. Millionaire but not multimillionaire, rich but not super-rich, top 1% but not top 0.1%, that sort of territory. I don't think "wealthy" is an unreasonable description to reflect that sort of well-elevated socioeconomic status.

The same is true of many other tech bosses. Bezos came from a very affluent family, as did Zuckerberg, and the late Steve Jobs (he was adopted, I think?) as well. None of them super-rich like for instance Trump's family, but all of them from very well-heeled upper middle class families that had a lot of money to spend making sure their children had plenty of advantages.

I might frequently wonder, how would any of these guys fared if their parents had been much poorer? Would they have had the same contacts / networks, the same ambitions, the same environment and support to effectively harness their talents, the same opportunities? Overwhelmingly, I think not.
 

Schadrach

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 20, 2010
2,516
597
118
Country
US
It's never going to be long-term self-sufficient.
Only sentence of that post I disagree with. A Mars settlement could eventually become self sufficient, just not in the sort of time frames you're wanting to think on. It's not limited by impossibility, but by engineering, expense and willingness. It is however far in the range of things that cannot even start to happen under capitalism because it's high expense, high risk and any potential returns are so far down the line as to not be part of the math.

capturing all the sunlight with a Dyson swarm to power your LLM data center(s)
May as well build a Matrioshka Brain at that point. Or more energy efficient AI which is another engineering rather than possibility problem - we know that it is possible to have human-level intelligence in less than 2L of volume and running on just a few watts of power, because that's what a brain is.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
20,169
4,518
118
Only sentence of that post I disagree with. A Mars settlement could eventually become self sufficient, just not in the sort of time frames you're wanting to think on. It's not limited by impossibility, but by engineering, expense and willingness. It is however far in the range of things that cannot even start to happen under capitalism because it's high expense, high risk and any potential returns are so far down the line as to not be part of the math.
I think that might be semantics, whether the word "never" is being used in an absolutely literally sense or not.
 

Satinavian

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 30, 2016
2,439
1,020
118
Only sentence of that post I disagree with. A Mars settlement could eventually become self sufficient, just not in the sort of time frames you're wanting to think on. It's not limited by impossibility, but by engineering, expense and willingness. It is however far in the range of things that cannot even start to happen under capitalism because it's high expense, high risk and any potential returns are so far down the line as to not be part of the math.
Money and willpower won't give Mars an athmosphere, particularly one that lasts without a magnetic field.

Which leaves only extremely vulnerable indoor settlements of very dubious value.
 

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 21, 2009
6,534
3,914
118
Country
United States of America
May as well build a Matrioshka Brain at that point. Or more energy efficient AI which is another engineering rather than possibility problem - we know that it is possible to have human-level intelligence in less than 2L of volume and running on just a few watts of power, because that's what a brain is.
Ok, but that would require someone having the first idea about what intelligence actually is and not pretending an elaborate predictive text machine is "AI".
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
14,067
7,270
118
Country
United Kingdom
It is however far in the range of things that cannot even start to happen under capitalism because it's high expense, high risk and any potential returns are so far down the line as to not be part of the math.
The same could be said about certain other enormous undertakings, such as the moon landing. A different order of magnitude perhaps. But inconceivable expense and risk has been justified by external pressures under a capitalist system before.
 

Satinavian

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 30, 2016
2,439
1,020
118
The same could be said about certain other enormous undertakings, such as the moon landing. A different order of magnitude perhaps. But inconceivable expense and risk has been justified by external pressures under a capitalist system before.
If we just wanted to bring a small number of people to Mars for a short trip, we could do it. It is way more difficult than a Moon visit, but we certainly could.

But the difference between a single Mars Landing and a self sufficient colony on Mars is pretty similar to the difference of the Moon Landing and a self sufficient colony on the Moon.
 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
35,019
14,333
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
While the whole robot army thing won't work, it is still important to point out that he wants to sell robots and still keep control over them in a blatant way to shaft customers.

It is like all the recent stories about "smart home" appliances that for some reason don't just connect inside the house but to some server elsewhere and suddenly stop working when the company decides that they now need a software update coupled to paid subscription that comes out of nowhere. Or decides that what your smart fridge really needs now is some ads to display.
And most of those people (the very few anyway) who think of buying that are absolute morons with more money they know what do with. The return and refund rate will be high.
 
Jun 11, 2023
4,343
2,988
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Uhrm, no. That article merely presents a few quotes Errol Musk gave to biographer Walter Isaacson. But it also doesn't give the full quotes.

He did not fully own a registered mine. But he owned rights to the output of three emerald mines, and described himself as a half-owner of one. He himself stated that it was "under the table", that he didn't register official ownership because "the blacks would take everything". This is quoted in Isaacson's own book, so its ommission from the article above is odd.

Errol Musk stated they had "so much money we couldn't close our safe" due to emerald income. And he meant that literally: one person had to hold the notes inside while a second pushed the safe door.

Young Elon Musk was given emeralds to sell to jewelry shops. Errol Musk stated emerald income paid for Elon's emigration to the US, and paid for his living expenses through higher education. His first company was also started with seed money from the family, & his father arranged the business meetings for it to get its contracts and eventually sell out for millions.

Edit: .... though regardless, this isn't really relevant to his engineering expertise (or lack thereof).



It’s strange to think Elon is full of it, but not his father, who btw was a manipulator and a wife beater.

 

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Mar 10, 2016
35,019
14,333
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male

It’s strange to think Elon is full of it, but not his father, who btw was a manipulator and a wife beater.

They're both selfish assholes. Elon just happens to be worse on a global scale. They can both burn in hell with each other. Just because he had a screwed up childhood doesn't give him the right to make others miserable. Plus, the fucker was part of the apartheid and had no problem cozying up with neo nazis. Fuck them both, and fuck them all.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
14,067
7,270
118
Country
United Kingdom
It’s strange to think Elon is full of it, but not his father
You're suggesting Errol Musk was lying about having loads of money, then?

It's obviously in Elon Musk's interest to say he didn't benefit from it. What's your suggested motive for Errol making it all up?

who btw was a manipulator and a wife beater.
Right. And Elon Musk himself is a manipulator and abusive father.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan
Jun 11, 2023
4,343
2,988
118
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You're suggesting Errol Musk was lying about having loads of money, then?

It's obviously in Elon Musk's interest to say he didn't benefit from it. What's your suggested motive for Errol making it all up?

Because he’s the type to make himself sound better in any way than he really was. That overflowing safe story is the first glaring clue of his self-aggrandizement. Further reinforcing this is how whatever fortune he had has since dwindled while his son’s has done the opposite.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan