US 2024 Presidential Election

[Trunkage]

You thinking the US has the ability to destroy Europe is quite ridiculous.

You do realize to make any kind of deal to end the war, BOTH sides need to agree, right? You think Russia will just stop and sign a deal in which they get nothing?

This isnt remotely true. For example, when many European countries took over the Americas, Africa, Asia and Australia, many of those people kept fighting centuries later. The European didnt care because they had already won

In 1945, Japan kept on being bombed until they surrended uncontionally. Saying that Japan agreed to anything is like saying a prisoner agreed to be in prison

 

[Trunkage]

Why? That case isn't over yet. Last update was Feb 12th, stating that the gov must respond by Feb 20th, and that it may be rendered moot if the agreement with El Salvador expires (which would say nothing of its legality).

To be clear, are you actually disputing what I said? That they were imprisoned at the US government's request? Because nobody involved disputes that, not even the US gov. It's a fact that happened, and that's what you're defending: the imprisonment, not merely the deportation, of people who have never been charged with anything.

I very sure Phoenix does not care. They just care they are gone

We are talking about a guy who was wiling to sacrfice millions of people over their superstition of masks and vaccines. If Phoenix is willing to do this, why would they care about waiting for a person to commit a crime worthy of prison before throwing them in prison. You just need to BELIEVE they should be in prison

 

[Agema]

They don't want us to be independent. They want us to be powerless vassals they can exploit. Why else would they want to destroy the EU and deal with all the mini states individually. They also want to deprive us of the wealth required to actually pay for said independence. Be it by tarrifs, their plots to bring down the EU or both. Nothing suggests the US actually wants us to be independent from them. Even them wanting our eastern half to be independent from Russia would be questionable.

Yes.

The postwar Western establishment unquestionably understood that the USA was boss. However, part of the real success of the USA here was by agreeing to act as a responsible leader: respecting the views of other countries and in other areas acting as a theoretically neutral holder for various forms of organisation: internet, finance, etc. This has been very beneficial for the USA. However, as the USA has progressively abused those powers more, so countries have begun to look elsewhere.

Trump is the decisive breach where the USA has given up on mutual benefit: "America first" is not complicated in name or intent. America has always acted in self-interest, the difference being that previous administrations understood US advantages to be in the global institutions the USA created and dominated, and the network of allies to back it up. Trump doesn't understand that, and only sees other countries as things to exploit. And so it is that it is shedding its close relationships: Trump prefers to run his relationships by coercion, and so the USA's mission in Europe has turned from alliance to dominance. Of course he wants to divide and conquer.

 

[Hades]

So it seems CBS abused their power to forbid Corbert for airing an interview with a Democrat in order to appease the White House. That's downright banana republic stuff. Which is fitting since the US currently is one.

In the post Trump era there must be a reckoning with all facets of society that caved or conspired with Trump. But the media is a good place to start. They went out of their way to sane wash Trump and knowingly held him to completely different standards than Biden. Then when Trump seized power the media abused their positions to do him favors like firing people he didn't like, or forbid things from airing if Trump wouldn't like them. Colbert isn't even the only example. 60 minutes also had the higher up directly conspire to kill an interview that didn't put Trump in a good light.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

The US has the largest army and nukes. On a purely theoretical level they can destroy just about everyone. And in the case of nukes themselves right along with it. Not that it will happen but the tools being there mean it can never be inherently ridiculous.

But imagine if US support and election interference gets Le Pen, the AFD and other traitors in power and they do a mass exedus of EU states. This would leave Europe de facto powerless to protect their interests since they'd be crippled and divided. And now consider the US has it in their official and disgusting policy papers that they plan to strengthen exactly those parties to foster ''resistance'' against ''Europe's course''.

The US has both the ability and for some demented reason also the desire to cripple Europe.


Quite frankly the Kremlin should collapse and they indeed should get nothing. What's the use of stopping the war if it makes the next war inevitable? Russia being permitted to gobble up European lands(and murder the people living on it) legitimizes it as a precedent that can be repeated and given some border towns or even the entire Donbas falls far short of Putin's goals he has little cause to stop there.

It simply isn't an acceptable outcome for Europe to have the war end with the barbarians being officially recognized as an existential threat that can go expand into our continent and butcher our citizens. Russia getting anything out of their psychotic endeavor puts the entire continent at risk.

Any nuclear power can do that. I didn't mean by dropping nukes, I meant in to your statement about the US making Europe powerless vassals to exploit. Europe has been doing that to themselves. Germany is dismantling it's nuclear power is reliant on Russia, Trump and the US caused that? Britain's energy plan is equally stupid and has the most expensive energy among developed nations, Trump and the US did that too? Britain has been losing wealth for 20 years.

Then go in there and push Russia out... Do want a stupid forever proxy war, a peace deal, or military action to push Russia out? Make a freaking decision.

Why? That case isn't over yet. Last update was Feb 12th, stating that the gov must respond by Feb 20th, and that it may be rendered moot if the agreement with El Salvador expires (which would say nothing of its legality).

To be clear, are you actually disputing what I said? That they were imprisoned at the US government's request? Because nobody involved disputes that, not even the US gov. It's a fact that happened, and that's what you're defending: the imprisonment, not merely the deportation, of people who have never been charged with anything.

If said thing is illegal, then surely there's a ruling for it proving said thing is illegal. That's not just for this specific thing, it's for anything. Secondly, interpreting a law incorrectly that harms a hundred or couple hundred people is not some super evil thing to be protested, there's a very long history of such things happening ever since laws were a thing. It's being protested simply because it's the "current thing" vs it being some massively important issue. It's a very small issue in comparison to actual important issues.

Judge says U.S. must help return some of the Venezuelans deported to El Salvador prison

A federal judge on Thursday ordered the Trump administration to make arrangements to allow some of the Venezuelan migrants deported to a notorious prison in El Salvador to return to the U.S. at the government's expense.

www.pbs.org

Yup sounds perfectly legal to me...



Additionally:

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/courts-have-ruled-4400-times-that-ice-jailed-people-illegally-it-hasnt-stopped-2026-02-14/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=gnews&utm_campaign=CDAqDQgAKgYICjC3oAwwsCYwmOL1BA&utm_content=rundown&gaa_at=la&gaa_n=AWEtsqeN3j83VUYuVANRTN5gaHFaDU0dwQpEg65vAdSLg2z3RqsOQqR4NhxE0ZZ5nwg_SBwY5e1CcjIGx3jG&gaa_ts=6990a9ee&gaa_sig=EgvPSmW5DUINSwDIJ-Xis99-PPJip0OCi0__k6x7y1PRPEu7y-cunqm_xQvEsPwuF-TVx5Ays5TgOA5kXo8x6Q%3D%3D

Yup, great reasons to keep protesting ICE, the fact that they continue brazenly breaking the law.

The first incident that you and Silvanus constantly harp on happened once because of misinterpretation of a law (which happens all the time) and you act like it is still constantly happening. Then, people claimed here on the forum that Trump administration will just not listen to judges because it's a fascist regime, yet that is not happening, which is exactly what I said would happen.

ICE has been doing that since ICE was created. You all just protest now because it's happening under Trump.

This isnt remotely true. For example, when many European countries took over the Americas, Africa, Asia and Australia, many of those people kept fighting centuries later. The European didnt care because they had already won

In 1945, Japan kept on being bombed until they surrended uncontionally. Saying that Japan agreed to anything is like saying a prisoner agreed to be in prison

I'm talking about a legitimate peace deal. Not a peace "deal" where one country obviously has superior military force and has beaten the other country into surrendering into a peace "deal". Japan was arguably even worse than the Nazis in WWII so saying bombing them to save more overall people was the right decision.

 

[BrawlMan]

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[BrawlMan]

​

 

[Silvanus]

If said thing is illegal, then surely there's a ruling for it proving said thing is illegal.

Sorry, hang on. Do you think something only becomes illegal after it gets to court?

Secondly, interpreting a law incorrectly that harms a hundred or couple hundred people is not some super evil thing to be protested, there's a very long history of such things happening ever since laws were a thing.

Once again: it wasn't a misinterpretation. They insisted that these people deserved it, & gloated repeatedly about what they'd done, even after Federal Court had ruled they should be returned, and after the Supreme Court ruled they'd been denied adequate notice and the ability to challenge.

And if you think well over a hundred people being imprisoned without charge and tortured isn't that important, then get a fucking sense of perspective. You whined for months about fewer people getting a mild, non-dangerious, temporary chest pain.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Secondly, interpreting a law incorrectly that harms a hundred or couple hundred people is not some super evil thing to be protested, there's a very long history of such things happening ever since laws were a thing. It's being protested simply because it's the "current thing" vs it being some massively important issue. It's a very small issue in comparison to actual important issues.

 

[tstorm823]

So it seems CBS abused their power to forbid Corbert for airing an interview with a Democrat in order to appease the White House.

CBS told Colbert that he would have to provide similar exposure for the Democrat's election opponents, who are also Democrats because it is a primary season.

Instead of doing that, Colbert did an interview with only his preferred candidate, stuck it on Youtube where broadcast tv rules don't apply, then lied on air about the circumstance to deliberately trigger the Streisand effect and get more exposure on his "banned interview" than he would have on air in the first place.

You have been manipulated.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

If said thing is illegal, then surely there's a ruling for it proving said thing is illegal.

There have been multiple rulings, and many of them have been ignored by the Trump administration which is challenging for those rulings to actually be enforced.

That's not just for this specific thing, it's for anything. Secondly, interpreting a law incorrectly that harms a hundred or couple hundred people is not some super evil thing to be protested, there's a very long history of such things happening ever since laws were a thing. It's being protested simply because it's the "current thing" vs it being some massively important issue. It's a very small issue in comparison to actual important issues.

It is a super evil thing to be protested if the government is misinterpreting the law on purpose and then refusing to correct their actions when judges rule against them, which is literally what is happening.

Judge says U.S. must help return some of the Venezuelans deported to El Salvador prison

A federal judge on Thursday ordered the Trump administration to make arrangements to allow some of the Venezuelan migrants deported to a notorious prison in El Salvador to return to the U.S. at the government's expense.

www.pbs.org

Judge: "The government illegally deported Venezuelan migrants to El Salvador without due process and we demand for them to be returned until such time as they are able to challenge their deportation."

The government: 'We acknowledge that these people were denied their due process rights, but as they are now outside of the country we hold that we have no obligation to return them or provide them their due process rights."

Phoenixmgs: "They don't have due process rights, you don't even know what due process is, the executive branch can do whatever they want."

The first incident that you and Silvanus constantly harp on happened once because of misinterpretation of a law (which happens all the time) and you act like it is still constantly happening.

Because it literally is still happening. This is still an ongoing case, the government is still refusing to abide by court orders and are being held in contempt.

Then, people claimed here on the forum that Trump administration will just not listen to judges because it's a fascist regime, yet that is not happening, which is exactly what I said would happen.

Because that is literally what's happening. Courts have ruled 4,400 times that ICE jailed people illegally and ICE is still jailing people illegally, and that's just since October.

Courts have ruled 4,400 times that ICE jailed people illegally. It hasn’t stopped.

U.S. courts have found at least 4,400 cases since October in which judges ruled that Immigration and Customs Enforcement detained people unlawfully, but the administration has largely continued its immigration enforcement and kept many detainees in custody despite those rulings.

www.mprnews.org

Earlier this year a judge in Minnesota noted that ICE had failed to comply with court rulings nearly 100 times since the start of the year, and it was only half-way through January.

TROrder012826

www.documentcloud.org

And this has all been posted in this thread before, so you either refuse to read anything and choose to argue out of ignorance, or you just have the attention span and memory of a gnat.

ICE has been doing that since ICE was created. You all just protest now because it's happening under Trump.

Again, you keep saying that but still haven't offered a single shred of evidence. You are a clown and your opinions on the matter are a joke. I bring receipts and you bring whining and pretending you're right.

 

[tstorm823]

Because it literally is still happening. This is still an ongoing case, the government is still refusing to abide by court orders and are being held in contempt.

If you are unaware, Judge Boasberg is the name of the judge making all the rulings about the deportations to CECOT. He's had his rulings repeatedly overturned on appeal or tossed by the Supreme Court, including the charge of contempt. He has multiple articles of impeachment against him in Congress right now, not only for judicial overreach in immigration cases, but also for personally signing off on the furthest reaching investigations of Republican politicians, granting the FBI approval for nondisclosure orders, such that they were not only probing the personal phone records of Senators, they were preventing anyone from telling them that they were even under investigation. A law has been passed in the wake requiring Congress be notified if one of them is under FBI investigation. Additionally, Boasberg is currently refusing to comply with subpoenas to testify before Congress.

 

[Silvanus]

If you are unaware, Judge Boasberg is the name of the judge making all the rulings about the deportations to CECOT. He's had his rulings repeatedly overturned on appeal or tossed by the Supreme Court, including the charge of contempt.

Query on this. I know the appeals court blocked the contempt investigation in Summer last year. Then an appelate court said he could resume the contempt investigation in November. Did it get blocked again?

Not that any of this says much about the validity of the investigation either way, since judges in America are party-political appointees anyway.

He has multiple articles of impeachment against him in Congress right now [...]

Of course. He challenged the Trump executive branch, and weaponisation of impeachment is the method of shutting down checks/balances.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Sorry, hang on. Do you think something only becomes illegal after it gets to court?



Once again: it wasn't a misinterpretation. They insisted that these people deserved it, & gloated repeatedly about what they'd done, even after Federal Court had ruled they should be returned, and after the Supreme Court ruled they'd been denied adequate notice and the ability to challenge.

And if you think well over a hundred people being imprisoned without charge and tortured isn't that important, then get a fucking sense of perspective. You whined for months about fewer people getting a mild, non-dangerious, temporary chest pain.

Yes, when it is something up for debate/interpretation. We are not talking about interpreting a speed limit law here.

I whined about science not being properly applied (while that people that didn't apply science properly proclaimed and gloated about "following" the science), which is what caused so many unneeded harms (like school closures). Also, myocarditis is not mild, non-dangerous, chest pain. A kid could easily miss a whole semester of sports because of it.

What is far far far more important and on a macro level is fixing healthcare, fixing education, energy solutions, etc. Those are all being ignored by the citizenry because they care about far less important stuff.

There have been multiple rulings, and many of them have been ignored by the Trump administration which is challenging for those rulings to actually be enforced.



It is a super evil thing to be protested if the government is misinterpreting the law on purpose and then refusing to correct their actions when judges rule against them, which is literally what is happening.

Judge says U.S. must help return some of the Venezuelans deported to El Salvador prison

A federal judge on Thursday ordered the Trump administration to make arrangements to allow some of the Venezuelan migrants deported to a notorious prison in El Salvador to return to the U.S. at the government's expense.

www.pbs.org

Judge: "The government illegally deported Venezuelan migrants to El Salvador without due process and we demand for them to be returned until such time as they are able to challenge their deportation."

The government: 'We acknowledge that these people were denied their due process rights, but as they are now outside of the country we hold that we have no obligation to return them or provide them their due process rights."

Phoenixmgs: "They don't have due process rights, you don't even know what due process is, the executive branch can do whatever they want."

View attachment 14254



Because it literally is still happening. This is still an ongoing case, the government is still refusing to abide by court orders and are being held in contempt.



Because that is literally what's happening. Courts have ruled 4,400 times that ICE jailed people illegally and ICE is still jailing people illegally, and that's just since October.

Courts have ruled 4,400 times that ICE jailed people illegally. It hasn’t stopped.

U.S. courts have found at least 4,400 cases since October in which judges ruled that Immigration and Customs Enforcement detained people unlawfully, but the administration has largely continued its immigration enforcement and kept many detainees in custody despite those rulings.

www.mprnews.org

Earlier this year a judge in Minnesota noted that ICE had failed to comply with court rulings nearly 100 times since the start of the year, and it was only half-way through January.

TROrder012826

www.documentcloud.org

And this has all been posted in this thread before, so you either refuse to read anything and choose to argue out of ignorance, or you just have the attention span and memory of a gnat.

View attachment 14255



Again, you keep saying that but still haven't offered a single shred of evidence. You are a clown and your opinions on the matter are a joke. I bring receipts and you bring whining and pretending you're right.

View attachment 14258

The rulings haven't been ignored. The fact that you guys now complain about Alligator Alcatraz is proof that DHS is not just deporting people to El Salvador anymore.

Another country can't just go into another country and take people. What do you think would've happened if Cuba sent in troops to US soil to get Elian Gonzalez about 25 years back?

ICE has been doing that since their inception as I've said multiple times...

Also, what tstorm posted about the judge in the case. Judges do stupid things like remove presidential candidates from ballots in rulings that make no sense.

 

[Hades]

CBS told Colbert that he would have to provide similar exposure for the Democrat's election opponents, who are also Democrats because it is a primary season.

Instead of doing that, Colbert did an interview with only his preferred candidate, stuck it on Youtube where broadcast tv rules don't apply, then lied on air about the circumstance to deliberately trigger the Streisand effect and get more exposure on his "banned interview" than he would have on air in the first place.

You have been manipulated.

Think I trust the man himself a bit more than you

 

[Silvanus]

Yes, when it is something up for debate/interpretation. We are not talking about interpreting a speed limit law here.

OK. And then when a judge rules that something is in contravention of the law, that first instance that brought it to court is somehow like a 'freebie' that doesn't count as being illegal?

I whined about science not being properly applied (while that people that didn't apply science properly proclaimed and gloated about "following" the science), which is what caused so many unneeded harms (like school closures). Also, myocarditis is not mild, non-dangerous, chest pain. A kid could easily miss a whole semester of sports because of it.

Myocarditis varies in severity. The myocarditis from vaccinations was specifically mild and self-limiting. Nonetheless, this was of enormous concern to you.

And yet, a greater number of people experiencing torture and imprisonment just isn't that important to you, it seems!

What is far far far more important and on a macro level is fixing healthcare, fixing education, energy solutions, etc. Those are all being ignored by the citizenry because they care about far less important stuff.

Well, no, we'd like those solved too. Wanting the government to be held accountable for having people tortured and imprisoned without trial doesn't somehow prevent us from also caring about education and energy.

 

[Hades]

What is far far far more important and on a macro level is fixing healthcare, fixing education, energy solutions, etc. Those are all being ignored by the citizenry because they care about far less important stuff.

But Trump and Republicans don't want to do any of those. Health is even one of their more damning aspects. On healthcare they've always been of the opinions that Americans just shouldn't have it, and putting Kennedy in charge is essentially a declaration of war against the public health. Education is not exactly an area they can be trusted on either.

 

[tstorm823]

Query on this. I know the appeals court blocked the contempt investigation in Summer last year. Then an appelate court said he could resume the contempt investigation in November. Did it get blocked again?

I don't have a well informed answer for this.

weaponisation of impeachment is the method of shutting down checks/balances.

Interesting take. Impeachment is among the checks and balances, drawing the line between weaponization and proper use is gray at best.

 

[tstorm823]

Think I trust the man himself a bit more than you

I think you exclusively place your trust in lies.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

OK. And then when a judge rules that something is in contravention of the law, that first instance that brought it to court is somehow like a 'freebie' that doesn't count as being illegal?



Myocarditis varies in severity. The myocarditis from vaccinations was specifically mild and self-limiting. Nonetheless, this was of enormous concern to you.

And yet, a greater number of people experiencing torture and imprisonment just isn't that important to you, it seems!



Well, no, we'd like those solved too. Wanting the government to be held accountable for having people tortured and imprisoned without trial doesn't somehow prevent us from also caring about education and energy.

Is anyone punished for laws that end up being ruled unconstitutional because they were in effect for a period of time?

Also, what tstorm said:

If you are unaware, Judge Boasberg is the name of the judge making all the rulings about the deportations to CECOT. He's had his rulings repeatedly overturned on appeal or tossed by the Supreme Court, including the charge of contempt. He has multiple articles of impeachment against him in Congress right now, not only for judicial overreach in immigration cases, but also for personally signing off on the furthest reaching investigations of Republican politicians, granting the FBI approval for nondisclosure orders, such that they were not only probing the personal phone records of Senators, they were preventing anyone from telling them that they were even under investigation. A law has been passed in the wake requiring Congress be notified if one of them is under FBI investigation. Additionally, Boasberg is currently refusing to comply with subpoenas to testify before Congress.

The enormous concern was forcing people to get medical interventions that weren't proven to be beneficial. That's not how you do science.

All the stuff I listed hasn't been in national debate in forever, nor has anything been done about them at all. Not even fucking covid was healthcare a major issue during that election.

But Trump and Republicans don't want to do any of those. Health is even one of their more damning aspects. On healthcare they've always been of the opinions that Americans just shouldn't have it, and putting Kennedy in charge is essentially a declaration of war against the public health. Education is not exactly an area they can be trusted on either.

I don't vote for Trump and the republicans. The vast majority of what RFK Jr says is correct and diet is the main cause of most diseases. You all just hate him because his view on vaccines, which have no chance at changing guidelines with regards to those. The article below is an example of someone just hating RFK Jr and giving you horseshit science. Saturated fat is good for you and it's an absolute joke that stuff like skim milk and low-fat dairy exist. Also, dairy fat contains most of the nutrients in dairy along with the essential C15 fatty acid that humans main source is dairy fat. Removing fat from dairy is idiotic. The article says that saturated fat is worse for you than unsaturated but saturate fat is hardest to become oxidized and that's one of the real causes with heart disease, these doctors in the article don't even understand heart disease. Then, the person goes on to say guidelines are important because schools base lunches on them, kids school lunches probably couldn't even get more worse than they currently are (fucking lunchables are deemed "healthy", it's a fucking joke). Kids are less healthy than ever before, kids never got fatty liver disease or type 2 diabetes and now they are. Kids are more obese than they've ever been before. If a person is obese as a kid, they'll have massive eating issues as an adult because you can eat pretty bad as a kid as you're growing and need more food (for your weight) than when you're an adult and just want to maintain weight essentially.

What Kennedy's saturated fat guidelines would mean for American health

RFK Jr.'s new dietary guidelines are set to encourage consumption of more saturated fat, but some nutrition experts say that could cause long-term, widespread harm.

www.statnews.com