Ghosts of Tsushima Review thread

hanselthecaretaker

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I only knew about it because that patch dropped when I started playing the game, I never did PvP myself though. You can look back at comments/threads to see how people hated the ring. The point is lock-on makes fighting easier (and changes controls as well) and Souls combat doesn't work very well without it. Why do people even lock-on if not locking on is just as good or better? I don't have any trouble targeting enemies / fighting in groups in games with better combat like aforementioned Dragon's Dogma or Bayo nor do I have any issue targeting specific enemies in the Batman games (doing the one-hit kill takedown moves against the more dangerous ones for example) when there's like 20 of them at a time.

In games like Batman and Bayonetta you’re bouncing and jumping all over the place so it doesn’t make sense to lock onto anyone. Idk why you always compare Souls to games like these anyways. I don’t even know what I’d consider to have inspired Souls combat in the first place, as that’s one of the reasons it caught on so much is being different at the time. When I google “games with Soulslike combat” all that shows up is a bunch of games that came after it.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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What do the bad reviews say? That would help a lot.

The most scathing I’ve seen was from Eurogamer, basically saying it’s pretty but also pretty generic. They said the combat was interesting when there were big set piece battles that incentivized changing stances, but those instances were too few and far between. The side quests felt tacked on and not given the same attention as the main story. Pretty much the opposite of something like The Witcher 3, where many side quests felt even more interesting than the main ones.

As for the visuals and extraordinary use of color, they said it was excessively done to the point the effect was lost.

In fact, if you pick at the surface of Ghost of Tsushima it all starts to quite worryingly unravel. The world as a whole is beautiful - utterly, undeniably, oppressively beautiful. Such colour! Everywhere you look, it's crimson, windswept fields and forests of golden yolk. Sunsets and oceans, beaches and snowy mountain peaks - environments of improbable range for a temperate island of Tsushima's kind, set to broad, enrapturing splashes of orange and teal. The vivid green bamboo jungles, the ephemeral fireflies, the swirling, milky petals that rise and fall with the wind - a wind that could be a game of its own, a magic thing bending everything around you. It's a sign of a studio that's mastered the tech, with a console generation's worth of experience behind it, but what it's missing is the maturity or restraint to put it to use. Ghost of Tsushima's bursting with undeniable beauty, yes, but beauty of the obvious, in-your-face kind, the kind that doesn't offer much thematic or tonal subtlety but makes a great ad for HDR OLED televisions. It's an odd thing to find a problem with - an excess of sumptuousness - but Sucker Punch is best imagined here less as master painter than overexcited barkeeper, serving up shot after shot of wincingly concentrated emotion, slamming the table and pouring out another - bigger moon! more falling leaves! make it a double! - before you've gulped the last one down. It's a bit much.

Also their sister site’s tech analysis mentioned the camera was frustrating -

In playing Ghost of Tsushima, the camera quickly became my arch-nemesis. This comes down to two issues - a narrow field of view and no real lock-on option. The latter point was a constant issue for me during combat: when engaging enemies, Ghost of Tsushima feels like a cross between multi-enemy Batman-style combat with some of the elegance of a From Software title, but the key factor is that actions are assigned to the face buttons while camera movement uses the right stick. Put simply, you're constantly shifting your thumb between actions and camera control and it's distracting. This could be alleviated by simply allowing the players to lock on to an enemy and engaging a more dynamic camera system or simply allowing users to assign attacks to the shoulder buttons.

Sounds like they don’t have an option to customize inputs, which is odd for an action game. Probably need to do that from the PS4 system options.
 

CriticalGaming

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Just picked up my copy, gonna fire ti up fire work and start the process of bitching about it :)
 

Phoenixmgs

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In games like Batman and Bayonetta you’re bouncing and jumping all over the place so it doesn’t make sense to lock onto anyone. Idk why you always compare Souls to games like these anyways. I don’t even know what I’d consider to have inspired Souls combat in the first place, as that’s one of the reasons it caught on so much is being different at the time. When I google “games with Soulslike combat” all that shows up is a bunch of games that came after it.
Regardless of the type of combat you're going for Bayo to Batman to Dragon's Dogma to Souls, you can design the combat system/controls so that fighting multiple enemies is manageable. To me, Monster Hunter is Souls combat done properly and it's far more deliberate than Souls. I think the main reason lock-on was used in prior MHs was due to being on portable systems and not having 2 sticks.


As for the visuals and extraordinary use of color, they said it was excessively done to the point the effect was lost.

Sounds like they don’t have an option to customize inputs, which is odd for an action game. Probably need to do that from the PS4 system options.
Too much color haha

I'm kinda surprised that so many people don't know about the system options to remap the controls on the PS4.
 

happyninja42

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Regardless of the type of combat you're going for Bayo to Batman to Dragon's Dogma to Souls, you can design the combat system/controls so that fighting multiple enemies is manageable.
Yes you CAN design it to be manageable, but it's not always easy, depending on the style of your combat system. Some games, the lockon is great, others, it's a nightmare to try and move between targets in anything remotely resembling logic. I forget which game I had played recently, where the lockon system would let you switch to another target with a flick of the right stick (pretty standard design), however, the problem was the priority it seemed to assign to different enemies, never seemed to be useful. Like I would be locked onto an enemy in the middle distance, and there are several of them 30+ feet away from me, and I'm engaged in ranged combat. However while that's going on, another enemy rushes me from the side, and I need to switch to a melee attack. And the targeting system, didn't seem to think 'Guy about to eat my face 3 feet in front of me" was the target I wanted to switch to, and instead started flicking between the other chuckleheads in the backrow.

Other systems, like RDR2, seem to have a terrible system for autolocking in the first place. I've lost count of the times I'll be on horseback, see something I want to shoot, get out my gun, while the camera is aimed in the general direction of the thing I want to shoot....and then when I actually trigger the aim button, the system decides to swing like 60 degrees to the left, and target the rabbit at my feet, not the perfect elk buck that I wanted to drop for it's pelt. And no amount of re-orienting the camera would convince the damn system that I didn't want to shoot the stupid rabbit.

So autolock can be a blessing or a curse in games, and not every company is apparently good at implementing it well for their system. Some do it great, and it's incredibly useful to remove that layer of finger fiddling from the plethora of controller inputs you are trying to simultaneously manage, others make it easier to just smash your face into the controller, and hope for the best.
 

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I'm really liking it.

The opening is a bit of a drag, but once I got passed that things got a lot more entertaining. Combat took a bit to get used to since it's really kinda floaty, and enemy reactions can be very quick; pulling off a parry still eludes me most of the time. I'm playing it on Hard, but I don't know if the parry window is a bit larger on lower difficulties. I am getting killed A LOT if I screw up three times in a row during a fight. Haven't had an issue with the lack of a lock-on or the camera yet. I have found that pulling off a stabbing attack by holding triangle is kinda frustrating, since enemies feel pretty relentless in their attacks so I'm almost never given enough to time.

I haven't bothered much with stealth since I enjoy the stand-off mechanic too much.

Visually the game can feel a tad rough, with the animations not being as polished as in something like TLoU2 or FF7R. And some of the textures aren't too great neither. But once that lighting comes around the corner along with the colours it's like you're in a goddamn painting. The world definitely is the star attraction here, giving off a similar tranquility as Breath of the Wild.

I'm also really enjoying the side tales from some of the supportive characters. Masako and the bow sensei being pretty damn engaging. It's funny how Masako's tale of vengeance was 10 times more engaging than Ellie's in TLoU2, and it's just a side quest.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Yes you CAN design it to be manageable, but it's not always easy, depending on the style of your combat system. Some games, the lockon is great, others, it's a nightmare to try and move between targets in anything remotely resembling logic. I forget which game I had played recently, where the lockon system would let you switch to another target with a flick of the right stick (pretty standard design), however, the problem was the priority it seemed to assign to different enemies, never seemed to be useful. Like I would be locked onto an enemy in the middle distance, and there are several of them 30+ feet away from me, and I'm engaged in ranged combat. However while that's going on, another enemy rushes me from the side, and I need to switch to a melee attack. And the targeting system, didn't seem to think 'Guy about to eat my face 3 feet in front of me" was the target I wanted to switch to, and instead started flicking between the other chuckleheads in the backrow.

Other systems, like RDR2, seem to have a terrible system for autolocking in the first place. I've lost count of the times I'll be on horseback, see something I want to shoot, get out my gun, while the camera is aimed in the general direction of the thing I want to shoot....and then when I actually trigger the aim button, the system decides to swing like 60 degrees to the left, and target the rabbit at my feet, not the perfect elk buck that I wanted to drop for it's pelt. And no amount of re-orienting the camera would convince the damn system that I didn't want to shoot the stupid rabbit.

So autolock can be a blessing or a curse in games, and not every company is apparently good at implementing it well for their system. Some do it great, and it's incredibly useful to remove that layer of finger fiddling from the plethora of controller inputs you are trying to simultaneously manage, others make it easier to just smash your face into the controller, and hope for the best.
I'm pretty sure under-the-hood for the melee combat games I've mentioned have an "autolock" so-to-speak; you press in the direction of the enemy you want to attack and the game basically locks on to them for you. Whereas Souls definitely doesn't feel like it has that going on under-the-hood. Then, many games what to clone Souls and they also make their combat the same way. It feels like we've had combat systems devolve because of that. For shooters, lock-on should be mainly an accessibility option as your shooting controls should be good enough to manually aim at this point. Though Rockstar's manual shooting has never felt right.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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However Horizon: Zero Dawn did it is about as good as I’ve felt the controls for manual aiming on sticks. It’s just the melee for smaller enemies that was basically average and serviceable.
 

CriticalGaming

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I'm pretty sure under-the-hood for the melee combat games I've mentioned have an "autolock" so-to-speak; you press in the direction of the enemy you want to attack and the game basically locks on to them for you. Whereas Souls definitely doesn't feel like it has that going on under-the-hood. Then, many games what to clone Souls and they also make their combat the same way. It feels like we've had combat systems devolve because of that. For shooters, lock-on should be mainly an accessibility option as your shooting controls should be good enough to manually aim at this point. Though Rockstar's manual shooting has never felt right.

Not all combat is trying to be Souls combat, I don't understand why you keep using it as a foundation of comparison here. Ghost's combat so far feels closer to Assassin's Creed than anything else.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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Not all combat is trying to be Souls combat, I don't understand why you keep using it as a foundation of comparison here. Ghost's combat so far feels closer to Assassin's Creed than anything else.
Plus I don’t think Souls was ever designed to deal with groups of enemies as far as melee. Maybe Bloodborne did a bit depending on weapon type, but Souls always felt more like duels were a bigger focal point, hence lock-on. I also rarely had an issue with nudging the right stick to different targets. Usually it’ll just skip to the next one left or right even if distance is staggered.


Don't you start talking shit about my baby!
Wait...I thought FF7/Remake was your baby?
 

happyninja42

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Not all combat is trying to be Souls combat, I don't understand why you keep using it as a foundation of comparison here.
Maybe because half of any posts on any random thread about any game that's even remotely like Souls, has people make the Souls comparison? Either comparing the combat system to Souls, or the difficulty to Souls, or whatever else they want to compare to Souls? A LOT of people use it as a benchmark for their gaming comparisons, because they think it's the gold standard or something. They will take up entire pages of a thread that they've derailed to debate the Souls minutia of a game.

And while it's true not all combat is trying to be Souls, a lot of it flat out is, so it's fair comparison I think, considering how many devs are trying to ride that Souls money train by cloning it.

Disclaimer: I don't actually like the Souls franchise, and think they are boring as hell and frustrating, but I can't deny that the gaming community as a whole, has been irrevocably altered by them.
 
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Maybe because half of any posts on any random thread about any game that's even remotely like Souls, has people make the Souls comparison? Either comparing the combat system to Souls, or the difficulty to Souls, or whatever else they want to compare to Souls? A LOT of people use it as a benchmark for their gaming comparisons, because they think it's the gold standard or something. They will take up entire pages of a thread that they've derailed to debate the Souls minutia of a game.
I have to remind certain gamers that are plenty of games harder than DS. I remember one dude tried to say Devil May Cry was like Dark Souls, but I pointed out that DMC started in 2001 and is more of an action game. He tried to say he was just joking, but I called him out on it. I am told it's okay not know stuff, not everything should be compared to Dark Souls.
 

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Not all combat is trying to be Souls combat, I don't understand why you keep using it as a foundation of comparison here. Ghost's combat so far feels closer to Assassin's Creed than anything else.
I didn't say that, there's a lot souls clones out there though; Lords of the Fallen, The Surge1/2, Nioh1/2, Code Vein, Mortal Shell, Bloodborne, Sekiro, Fallen Order.
 

happyninja42

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I have to remind certain gamers that are plenty of games harder than DS.
I've never understood the habit of equating harder with better. By that logic, Battletoads is the greatest game of all time, but I never see anyone praising it, the only time it's ever mentioned is to vilify it for being too hard.

Not saying you are equating those things, just that I don't understand those who do.
 
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I've never understood the habit of equating harder with better. By that logic, Battletoads is the greatest game of all time, but I never see anyone praising it, the only time it's ever mentioned is to vilify it for being too hard.

Not saying you are equating those things, just that I don't understand those who do.
It's all bout gettin' dat street cred. Just with little to no effort to claim and say "Hey, I am a hardcore gamer because I played this one series or this one hard game in the franchise. That makes me legit. Imma gaming expert now". What does not help was that games got easier. It's not inherently a bad thing, but certain games or franchises took it too far. The Wii has partial blame, but Sony and Microsoft weren't much better. Then Demon Souls and later Dark Souls comes along and is one the few hard, niche games to get mainstream success because it does not hold your hand. The players have to discover and figuring things out on their own or from people leaving cryptic messages.
 

CriticalGaming

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So my first impressions are not as good as I would have hoped sadly.

The game itself is fun enough, but it seems to really be relying on the beauty of the island to carry people through the moment to moment gameplay.

Basically it's an open world game, complete with liberating bandit/mongol bases, question mark icons on the map that involve little shrines or haiku points where you can earn extra charms or points. The flavor of all of these little activities is interesting mostly because the Japanese setting is not something we've seen a lot of.

The combat itself is satifying, but really really easy. The game gives you so many tools, from tossing kunai, to sniping with a bow, to stealth kills, that if you struggle to murder through the basic enemies. However the leaders or mini bosses prove to be challenging because they throw every type of attack at you at a mix. Which can be confusing much in the way it's confusing in Sekiro.


Is this the attack I block, parry, or dodge? Sometimes they come at you back to back and so far I've found the best way to deal with it is to spam dodge. In fact, unlock the dodge roll ASAP, then just roll around like an ass while the big guys whiff.


So yeah, the game is like AC: Odyssey with a Samurai skin on it. The story itself is okay, but it isn't special. The open world is pretty, but the activities are nothing new. And the combat is okay but not terrible exciting or challenging.

I mean it just seems like a kind of casual Samurai game just chill and play in small 1-2hour chunks and you'll probably enjoy it.
 
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