Cuties - WTF am I seeing here?

[lil devils x]

You’re right; what this dude thinks is irrelevant outside of my opinion as this bit or marketing already exists despite my personal objection to it.

You’re right; those dance poses are common in modern dance, but you’re ignoring that many of them are sexual in nature. The child in the back-left is twerking; a quick Google search? “Twerking: dance to popular music in a sexually provocative manner involving thrusting hip movements and a low, squatting stance.” While imitation is common, it’s not always appropriate. Unless you’re willing to concede that you’d be ok if these young girls were depicted drinking, smoking and having sex as those are common things normally relegate to adults that are prevalent throughout many things they are exposed to and could readily imitate, if just doing what they see is an adequate qualifier?

Who decides what’s right and wrong what young GIRLS do with their bodies? Outside of laws in place for their protection, no one save for their parents, and even then only to a certain age, but that doesn’t mean their choices are objectively appropriate. You’re perfectly fine with what you see in that poster; I am not. Both of our opinions are shared by many, and both are irrelevant.

The modesty police considered Elvis's hip thrusts to be too sexually provocative as well, That doesn't mean we should stop kids from doing them. Dancing =\= harmful behavior and to compare it to drinking and smoking is silly.
This was your exact quote I was addressing:

even young women who're proud of their bodies can do wrong things with them

That clearly states young women, not girls and yea that rubs me the wrong way there. This particular issue is especially irritating to me, as I come from a culture where the modesty police from another culture forced their religious beliefs onto my ancestors and beat and killed people for celebrating their own beliefs, of which include not being ashamed of our bodies or sexuality. I view " shaming girls into modesty" as extremely harmful to girls and women and it is long past time it ceased.

 

[Casual Shinji]

It is like people forgot swing dancing was a thing..

There was literally a move in the 1950's where the girl was essentially sitting on the guy's face.. and you had all the 4 yr old girls trying to do these moves as well. It isn't like these new dance moves and poses are any worse. Just how we had tons of girls with their skirts over their heads in the 50's we have tons of girls now twerking it up because that is what the dance moves are now. Not a big deal really, and I am not sure why people are making it out to be. Pedo's will jerk off to anything, what they do has no bearing on what girls should and should not do. We are not going to start Burka'ing up all the girls because some dude gets off from seeing any part of them either. These poses are harmless and the girls do not deserve to be modesty policed simply because some dudes get the wrong idea. Them getting the wrong idea is 100% on them, not the girls.

Yeah, but those girls are cast and put into those outfits by adults; this isn't a documentary or home movie. This is kinda the problem with depicting kids (12 or 15 years old) in movies/TV shows in a realistic manner, in a way that truly presents kids as they are (in that time period anyway). Kids of that age are already interested in and experimenting with sex and discovering their bodies and how they're changing. And provocative dancing is part of that, and there's nothing wrong with that. But making a movie about that with actual 12 or 13-year old children runs into the danger of being exploitative, despite kids in real life doing the exact same thing.

So, should actual children be used in a movie that is about children discovering sex, their own body, provocative dance, for the sake of authenticity? Because those kid actors don't really have a say in that matter - they can't really stand up for themselves when faced by a bunch of adults trying to make a movie. I'm not a fan of kids being in movies for that reason alone, not even factoring in the aspect of authentic representation, including sexual behaviour. Like, two 13-year old kids practicing french kissing in real life... that's up to them obviously. But you try to make a movie scene with the same set-up with two actual 13-year olds, and you're getting into somewhat more dicey territory.

 

[Xprimentyl]

The modesty police considered Elvis's hip thrusts to be too sexually provocative as well, That doesn't mean we should stop kids from doing them. Dancing =\= harmful behavior and to compare it to drinking and smoking is silly.
This was your exact quote I was addressing:

That clearly states young women, not girls and yea that rubs me the wrong way there. This particular issue is especially irritating to me, as I come from a culture where the modesty police from another culture forced their religious beliefs onto my ancestors and beat and killed people for celebrating their own beliefs, of which include not being ashamed of our bodies or sexuality. I view " shaming girls into modesty" as extremely harmful to girls and women and it is long past time it ceased.

You’re perfectly fine with what you see in that poster; I am not. Both of our opinions are shared by many, and both are irrelevant.

 

[lil devils x]

Yeah, but those girls are cast and put into those outfits by adults; this isn't a documentary or home movie. This is kinda the problem with depicting kids (12 or 15 years old) in movies/TV shows in a realistic manner, in a way that truly presents kids as they are (in that time period anyway). Kids of that age are already interested in and experimenting with sex and discovering their bodies and how they're changing. And provocative dancing is part of that, and there's nothing wrong with that. But making a movie about that with actual 12 or 13-year old children runs into the danger of being exploitative, despite kids in real life doing the exact same thing.

So, should actual children be used in a movie that is about children discovering sex, their own body, provocative dance, for the sake of authenticity? Because those kid actors don't really have a say in that matter - they can't really stand up for themselves when faced by a bunch of adults trying to make a movie. I'm not a fan of kids being in movies for that reason alone, not even factoring in the aspect of authentic representation, including sexual behaviour. Like, two 13-year old kids practicing french kissing in real life... that's up to them obviously. But you try to make a movie scene with the same set-up with two actual 13-year olds, and you're getting into somewhat more dicey territory.

If they were going for realism though, which appears to be the case from what I have seen, these outfits and positions would be accurate and yea I do think they should use children from the age group that this applies to as that is our reality that we live in rather than make another fake icarly show. Trying to Disney everything up isn't really helping kids accurately address the issues they are actually dealing with. As long as it isn't actually sexual ( the dance outfits and poses really are not sexual for the girls), or harmful such as drinking smoking ect.. I am not seeing an issue here. Chances are the actors playing these roles have already been exposed to much worse in their daily lives at school and in their own neighborhoods than will ever be depicted here. Reality is always far worse. If a child actor has a problem with any of their scenes, they can always have a stand in and/or editing these days to complete scenes as they have done for a long time anyhow.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Apparently, from what I'm reading, the movie is meant to be against these kinds of depictions of young girls and the marketing has ended up reversing the message of the film? I guess we'll need to see what shakes out as more information comes out and the film releases.

 

[lil devils x]

not sure where the post went

What matters is how the girls themselves feel about it. If they like their dance outfits and poses, I don't see a problem with it, it isn't like it is hurting anyone. You can go to any girls dance studio anywhere across the US and you will see much of the same.

 

[lil devils x]

Apparently, from what I'm reading, the movie is meant to be against these kinds of depictions of young girls and the marketing has ended up reversing the message of the film? I guess we'll need to see what shakes out as more information comes out and the film releases.

From what I saw, the girls created a dance group to get away from the rest of the problems in their life, not that the dance group was the problem.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

From what I saw, the girls created a dance group to get away from the rest of the problems in their life, not that the dance group was the problem.

I'm just telling you what I've read. It would not be my first interpretation from the trailer either. Information is confusing right now given how recently this hit.

 

[happyninja42]

From what I saw, the girls created a dance group to get away from the rest of the problems in their life, not that the dance group was the problem.

True, but it does seem that the other problems they are trying to escape from, are the expectations put on them by their society. So it does sort of loop back on that I think.

I mean I rewatched the trailer for the bit I was looking for, and they smash cut from the bit where the women are saying 'You know where the devil is? in the naked women" directly to Amy being fitted for a dress for a wedding, and her mother saying "she's a woman now." And they clearly show that Amy is NOT sure that's the case. Her expression of fear and uncertainty says volumes about the fear she has for what she knows is now expected of her as a "woman." And given the scene context of a wedding, it's pretty obvious that the "womanhood" they are referring to, is probably referring to her getting married, having kids, etc. And she's like "whoa! I am SO not ready for that" They then highlight this, by showing her trying to do chores (I'm guessing they increased her chores to illustrate she is more mature, and thus capable of handling more responsibilities), but she's fucking them up. It's several shots of one failure on her part after another, because you know, she's like 11? So it's still a work in progress. She then makes some bad choices, stealing money so they can go buy some "womanly clothes", and her mother straight up slaps her in the face for it, and says "Who are you Amy?!" implying she doesn't know who her daughter is becoming. Probably with a line like "I didn't raise a daughter like this!" etc. And on top of that, she's got the influence of her friends, and the social media reinforcement that people like what she's doing, with the earlier scene where they posted one of their routines and it got a lot of likes. So she's getting "What you are doing is good, and people like it" on one hand, and "what you are doing is dirty and sinful, and far too mature for someone you're age" on the other, coupled with the contradiction of "but you're mature enough to talk about possible marriage and family life"

I mean, the whole thing is clearly designed to illustrate this duality and contradiction of expectations. So I guess it's a....would this be a satirical (without being a comedy) film? Or a deconstruction? Not really sure on the style, but the intent seems pretty apparent, given the scenes presented, and the order in which they are shown.

 

[Xprimentyl]

What matters is how the girls themselves feel about it. If they like their dance outfits and poses, I don't see a problem with it, it isn't like it is hurting anyone. You can go to any girls dance studio anywhere across the US and you will see much of the same.

Let me qualify, I don't like the types of people and moves they're idolizing/imitating. I wouldn't want my daughter to want to be like a Cardi B or a Nicki Manaj; they're not the kinds of role models I think are good for young girls; fame and popularity does not make one de facto someone to aspire to. So I'm not "shaming" young women; I'm shaming the types of people they look up to and the fact that marketers put that on display with clearly underage girls. If that makes me a prude, not wanting to see children behave like adults I can't respect, so be it.

And before you say it again, my opinion is irrelevant, but it is still my own.

 

[Chimpzy]

Here's a review of the film from when it premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. Should give some more insight into the film's themes than the trailer or posters

‘Cuties’ (‘Mignonnes’): Film Review | Sundance 2020

A preteen steps away from her traditional Senegalese family background and attempts to fit in by joining a posse of precociously sexualized dancers in Maïmouna Doucouré's feature debut, 'Cuties.'

www.hollywoodreporter.com

I also have some interviews with the female Franco-Senegalse director, but those are all in French. Not sure how much good those are to the rest of you. Willing to help with translation if desired tho.

Maïmouna Doucouré : « C’est important de s’interroger sur les outils qu’on donne à nos petites filles pour se construire » - TroisCouleurs

À l’occasion de la sortie de Mignonnes, son premier long-métrage en salles le 19 août, on a rencontré la jeune réalisatrice franco-sénégalaise Maïmouna Doucouré, dont la voix et l’approche singulières vont marquer à coup sûr le cinéma français. Après Maman(s), César du meilleur court métrage en...

www.troiscouleurs.fr

Maïmouna Doucouré • Réalisatrice de Mignonnes

18/08/2020 - La cinéaste française Maïmouna Doucouré parle de son premier long, Mignonnes, primé à Sundance et à Berlin et acquis par Netflix, qui arrive dans les salles françaises

cineuropa.org

 

[Casual Shinji]

If they were going for realism though, which appears to be the case from what I have seen, these outfits and positions would be accurate and yea I do think they should use children from the age group that this applies to as that is our reality that we live in rather than make another fake icarly show. Trying to Disney everything up isn't really helping kids accurately address the issues they are actually dealing with. As long as it isn't actually sexual ( the dance outfits and poses really are not sexual for the girls), or harmful such as drinking smoking ect.. I am not seeing an issue here. Chances are the actors playing these roles have already been exposed to much worse in their daily lives at school and in their own neighborhoods than will ever be depicted here. Reality is always far worse. If a child actor has a problem with any of their scenes, they can always have a stand in and/or editing these days to complete scenes as they have done for a long time anyhow.

That's assuming the child in question can voice the problem they have with a scene, to an adult. And just because reality is far worse doesn't mean it's okay for kids to get exploited or used in a way they don't quite understand yet. It's already happening way too often in movies.

The girls for example in this poster can make the decision for themselves whether they want to dress like that in their daily lives. But can they make the decision to show themselves like that to audiences around the world, not knowing what the ramifications could be? And it's not even about sexuality. Remember that kid who played Anakin Skywalker in The Phantom Menace? His life got pretty much ruined because people hated him for his character, and being a kid he wasn't at all able to deal with that. Now obviously the real problem there is the mob mentality of fans, but seeing as that's not going away anytime soon, the primary goal should be to not put kids in that kind of vulnerable position.

 

[lil devils x]

Here's a review of the film from when it premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. Should give some more insight into the film's themes than the trailer or posters

‘Cuties’ (‘Mignonnes’): Film Review | Sundance 2020

A preteen steps away from her traditional Senegalese family background and attempts to fit in by joining a posse of precociously sexualized dancers in Maïmouna Doucouré's feature debut, 'Cuties.'

www.hollywoodreporter.com

I also have some interviews with the female Franco-Senegalse director, but those are all in French. Not sure how much good those are to the rest of you. Will post links and help with translation if desired.

That pretty much comes across as the girls trying to fight for their right to do what they want to do and be themselves rather than be forced into other's conceptions of what they should be. The reality is for most girls is they just want to have fun, shake their booty and laugh it off, it is others forcing their own ideas of modesty and expectations on to them that consider it " hypersexualization" for girls just to be girls having fun wearing what they themselves are comfortable in. Hell I think when I was 7 when I ran around outside in just a shirt and my panties around the neighborhood and could give a shit what anyone else had to say about it. If they tried to put pants on me I would have cut them up with scissors like I did the rest of the clothes they tried to put on me that I didn't have a use for. I never had much use for clothing as a kid. LOL

I think it is pretty sad though that people want to sexualize everything a girl does when it isn't really about that for the girls themselves.

 

[lil devils x]

That's assuming the child in question can voice the problem they have with a scene, to an adult. And just because reality is far worse doesn't mean it's okay for kids to get exploited or used in a way they don't quite understand yet. It's already happening way too often in movies.

The girls for example in this poster can make the decision for themselves whether they want to dress like that in their daily lives. But can they make the decision to show themselves like that to audiences around the world, not knowing what the ramifications could be? And it's not even about sexuality. Remember that kid who played Anakin Skywalker in The Phantom Menace? His life got pretty much ruined because people hated him for his character, and being a kid he wasn't at all able to deal with that. Now obviously the real problem there is the mob mentality of fans, but seeing as that's not going away anytime soon, the primary goal should be to not put kids in that kind of vulnerable position.

In my experience though it isn't the girls who have a problem shaking their booty, goofing off and having fun, that sort of modesty is usually forced upon them by elders against their will. I agree that exploitation is a serious issue, I do not agree that there is anything the girls should be ashamed of for wearing dance outfits. I know that I would be pissed if people made the sorts of comments made about their outfits about my old gymnastics, dance, cheer or ballet outfits though. The problem is the way people think they should talk about these kids, not what the kids are actually doing. The girls themselves likely think the poster looks great, and they should. The assholes ridiculing them for it are the problem here.

 

[Chimpzy]

That pretty much comes across as the girls trying to fight for their right to do what they want to do and be themselves rather than be forced into other's conceptions of what they should be. The reality is for most girls is they just want to have fun, shake their booty and laugh it off, it is others forcing their own ideas of modesty and expectations on to them that consider it " hypersexualization" for girls just to be girls having fun wearing what they themselves are comfortable in. Hell I think when I was 7 when I ran around outside in just a shirt and my panties around the neighborhood and could give a shit what anyone else had to say about it. If they tried to put pants on me I would have cut them up with scissors like I did the rest of the clothes they tried to put on me that I didn't have a use for. I never had much use for clothing as a kid. LOL

I think it is pretty sad though that people want to sexual everything a girl does when it isn't really about that for the girls themselves.

Fyi, this is all stuff paraphrased from the interviews:

The movie's about a franco-senegalese girl caught between two cultures, on one hand the pressures put on her by her traditional Senegalese relatives (including her father planning to get a second wife and the burdens this places on her and her mother), and on the other hand wanting to fit into modern western society, while also coming of age an wanting to emancipate herself. In the movie, this desire for agency manifests in the form of rebelling against the traditional values by going in the polar opposite direction, joining a dance group performing the hypersexualized routines you generally see in hiphop, partially inspired by (social) media. At it's core the movie attempts to examine why these girls are rebelling in this way, but also that these girls should not be judged for it, but that society should try to understand them, while at the same time remain critical of the things that influence them.

 

[lil devils x]

Fyi, this is all stuff paraphrased from the interviews:

The movie's about a franco-senegalese girl caught between two cultures, on one hand the pressures put on her by her traditional Senegalese relatives (including her father planning to get a second wife and the burdens this places on her and her mother), and on the other hand wanting to fit into modern western society, while also coming of age an wanting to emancipate herself. In the movie, this desire for agency manifests in the form of rebelling against the traditional values by going in the polar opposite direction, joining a dance group performing the hypersexualized routines you generally see in hiphop, partially inspired by (social) media. At it's core the movie attempts to examine why these girls are rebelling in this way, but also that these girls should not be judged for it, but that society should try to understand them, while at the same time remain critical of the things that influence them.

Yea, I read that. I pretty much felt the same way these kids did growing up in the bible belt with some copper trying to chase me and wrap me up in a blanket for running down the street naked. LOL

It is sort of like when you see boys running around in the fire hydrant in their undies and no one thinks twice about it, but when girl does it... OMG! Someone cover her up she cant be runnin around like some hussie! I mentioned before how I was forced to go to that Christian school where hundreds of children were molested, beaten and raped. They attempted to "beat the devil out of us" and told us everything about our own culture was evil. When we fled the reservation from that abuse, we moved into the bible belt where I dealt with plenty of the modesty police there as well. I relate with what these characters are going through due to my own experience with this. My brother's girlfriends parents essentially tried to sell her as a child bride to a dirty old man. Girls are receiving all sorts of messed up signals growing up, and honestly, the only " outlet" we had as kids was when we dressed up danced and sang goofing off and having fun. If it were not for that, my childhood would have been hell. Having fun with my sisters and friends shaking our booties are some of the best memories of childhood I have.

 

[Casual Shinji]

In my experience though it isn't the girls who have a problem shaking their booty, goofing off and having fun, that sort of modesty is usually forced upon them by elders against their will. I agree that exploitation is a serious issue, I do not agree that there is anything the girls should be ashamed of for wearing dance outfits. I know that I would be pissed if people made the sorts of comments made about their outfits about my old gymnastics, dance, cheer or ballet outfits though. The problem is the way people think they should talk about these kids, not what the kids are actually doing. The girls themselves likely think the poster looks great, and they should. The assholes ridiculing them for it are the problem here.

Well, that and a cold, uncaring industry that'll chew them up and spit them out as it sees fit.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Yea, I read that. I pretty much felt the same way these kids did growing up in the bible belt with some copper trying to chase me and wrap me up in a blanket for running down the street naked. LOL

It is sort of like when you see boys running around in the fire hydrant in their undies and no one thinks twice about it, but when girl does it... OMG! Someone cover her up she cant be runnin around like some hussie! I mentioned before how I was forced to go to that Christian school where hundreds of children were molested, beaten and raped. They attempted to "beat the devil out of us" and told us everything about our own culture was evil.

Oh, is that the inspiration for your name? A sort of thumbing your nose at the people from your past?

 

[lil devils x]

Oh, is that the inspiration for your name? A sort of thumbing your nose at the people from your past?

Part of the reason, yes.. I actually posted on the old forums about that years ago. That was the first part, it became a RL nickname in high school though when my friend's Mom came home drunk from Bingo and was jumping up and down on her sofa singing to Highway to hell blaring on the stereo and I came in from the pool in my red bikini and she started screaming I was the devil. The next day, my friend gave me some blinking devil horns at school and the name just stuck after that since everyone kept calling me devil so I started using it for my games as well . XD My old friends from school still call me " lil Devils, " devilwoman"' and "Deviliscious" to this day. All my devil kitty pictures I use as avatars are all sent to me by friends.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Part of the reason, yes.. I actually posted on the old forums about that years ago. That was the first part, it became a RL nickname in high school though when my friend's Mom came home drunk from Bingo and was jumping up and down on her sofa singing to Highway to hell blaring on the stereo and I came in from the pool in my red bikini and she started screaming I was the devil. The next day, my friend gave me some blinking devil horns at school and the name just stuck after that since everyone kept calling me devil so I started using it for my games as well . XD My old friends from school still call me " lil Devils, " devilwoman"' and "Deviliscious" to this day. All my devil kitty pictures I use as avatars are all sent to me by friends.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was a thread made by me, so you'd think I'd remember that, but in my defense, it has been a long time.