Weeb revolt over trap censorship
- Thread starter Specter Von Baren
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Which people?
You've made definitive claims about what being a trap means. You've made definitive claims about what being a trans person means. You have provided zero evidence to substantiate these claims. You haven't even provided a speculative theoretical basis to substantiate these claims beyond your opinion. You have very obviously never actually spoken to a trans person about this. The fact that you feel entitled not only to decide who is and is not trans, but to demand that your views on who is and isn't trans be taken as presumed gospel until I "prove" you wrong is pretty damn insulting.
Let me clarify something. I don't actually care about any particular 4chan thread. I don't care whether or not the people who show up on any particular 4chan thread are actually trans or not. Firstly, because it's still insulting and queerphobic to refer to cis male fem or GNC people as traps. The word is not a nice word, it fundamentally implies deceit or fakeness, and assumes a predatory or aggressive motive behind gender non-conformity, which has implications for all GNC people (including trans and non-binary people). Cis men who cross dress or adopt a feminine gender expression are still not trying to predate straight men.
Secondly, a few pages back your argument rested on the idea that everyone described as a trap must personally identify as male, implying that those who refer to others as traps are deeply concerned with respecting the gender identities of GNC people and would never misgender someone. Except it now turns out that you've decided that noone who shows their genitals on the internet could ever possibly be trans, without providing evidence and without consulting a single trans person before making this claim, so really what you meant when you claimed there was a clear distinction between traps and trans people was that you get to decide what that distinction is, and it doesn't actually matter how people identify because that's something you get to decide for them.
It's not hard to find examples of trans people being called traps. Just head on over to pornhub and type the word trap into the searchbar. But again, that's not really the point. The word is an ugly word which describes an ugly idea and using it has unpleasant implications for how you view all GNC people. If you don't want to carry those implications, stop using it. There are better, more accurate, more generous words for any person you might be tempted to call a "trap".
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I posted my evidence on page 1.
Here's some more evidence:
So where's your evidence?
Don't have any?
Okay then.
You don't understand what we're even talking about, do you?
Again, it does not matter if the word trap is technically defined as male (which, incidentally, is far more contentious than you're pretending) if you, or people like you, get to unilaterally decide who is male.
The transphobia is in the idea that you get to determine that someone is male, and that their performance of femininity is therefore fake or deceitful, based on your own weird obsession with their genitals or what they do with them.
I do. I can't say the same for you, however.
That seems to me to be the only thing that matters, actually.
Here's a hypothetical scenario for you:
Suppose that there's a male pornstar who goes into work and boinks a female pornstar for a video.
This video is tagged as "straight"
Suppose that, overnight, the male pornstar has an epiphany and says "you know what, I've just realized that I'm a woman."
So then she goes into work the next day and boinks the same female pornstar for the next video, without making any changes.
What should this video be tagged as? "Lesbian", or "Straight"?
Does the film crew need to sit down and have interviews with each actor in order to correctly ascertain their gender, prior to filming, in order to avoid being transphobic?
It seems like you're trying to say "Straight porn doesn't sit down and ask for each participant's current gender identity before filming so then it has the potential to misgender people! Nobody ever asked if the person with the penis is actually male, and nobody ever asks the actor with the vagina if they're really female, so the tag of "straight" is oppressive and transphobic and yadda yadda", which is clearly ridiculous and misses the entire point.
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This is hilarious given the context of "weebs threw and are throwing a weeks long tantrum over being asked not to use one misapplied rude word"
It's an attack on their inalienable right to free
The tantrum is about mods banning people who use normal words that have no issue. If it's merely being asked to, implying there's the option to refuse, there'd be no issue.
You do not get to come into our culture, our community with its own internal jargon and police it and tell us what words we use and don't use based on your external concerns. Apparently the new subreddit that sprung from this has become the single biggest anime-related one ever, with over 200k members, so clearly our community is united against these people.
That's not what "unilaterally" means. You're trying to unilaterally redefine what it means to be male. We're just saying we don't care either way and traps are irrelevant to trans people.
Even if you don't call someone a trap, that does NOT mean you see them as female! To imagine that people think of you as female because they utter specific politically correct language out of fear or a desire for self-preservation is nanners. And the only way to know what people ACTUALLY think and be best equipped to deal with them is to let them speak freely.
Out of my many, many, many fetishes, traps is definitely not one of them. It is just free speech lol.
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Great work rehabilating the word trap guys. You really nailed it.
It never needed rehabilitating, as there was never anything wrong with it in the first place
You know if you google "trap transphobia" you get 609,000 results. For me, the first is a list of anti-LGBT slurs on wiki, the second is "It is transphobic and has in recent years replaced the term 'tranny' as a hate-crime Label as it is easy to shout and misuse. "
I asked you "Show me five examples of the word being used in a negative way."
You failed.
So, in your effort to show how incredibly not transphobic you are, you're wheeling out this gem?
Look, I don't know if anyone has explained this to you, but porn isn't real. Porn is acting, which is why we call people who do porn "actors". Most of the women who shoot lesbian scenes in porn are straight, they're doing things they don't enjoy because straight men like to watch it. Similarly, straight male porn actors sometimes make porn for gay men, or do gay scenes, because it pays more. Although it's much rarer, some gay porn actors have also famously done bi or straight scenes for novelty marketing. Again, porn isn't real. It's a show people are putting on based on what the audience wants to see, and any question of how that content is marketed is just that, marketing.
Whatever these two actors do for a video isn't necessarily reflective of who they actually are at all, because they're being paid to put on a performance. However you choose to label that performance is only for the benefit of the audience. The actors are actors. In porn, you would label the scene as a straight scene if it depicted a straight fantasy, or was aimed at a straight audience, but that has no relevance to the actors any more than one of them doing a scene dressed as a pirate would make them a real pirate.
If you're at the point where you can't tell the difference between real expressions of personal identity and porn, then you probably need to stop and wonder how you got there.
And you wonder why some people don't agree with you
I made this point already but since we're going in circles here we go again.
Women get called bitches way more than trans folks get called traps yet we don't see people in dog competitions needing to "rehabilitate" the term ***** when using it to speak about the female dogs in the competition. A word can have a wrong (but insanely popular in this case) use and the actual scientific/culturally accurate meaning which is what it actually means. (also, funnily, when said in Japanese (since JP incorporates a lot of foreign terms in it), the term ***** means slut, not sure how that worked out, but yeah, there you go XD)
So yeah, it's all about the context. What you wanna do is take it on a case by case basis and judge accordingly if you're a moderator. Not just ban the word that applies to this specific thing, a thing which by definition is a cis character.
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"The moderators of r/animemes aren't actually part of the anime community" is a hell of a take.
Have you considered the possibility that at least some of the people who don't like using "trap" to refer to every crossdresser or trans woman in anime might also like anime? Like, shit man, Ranma 1/2 influenced half the trans people I know.
When you were asked if a woman character who acted and identified as a woman but was born with a penis, aka a trans-woman, was a trap, you said yes.
That's exactly my point, thank you.
Just like the gender identity and sexual preference of the performers is irrelevant, so too are the gender identity and sexual preferences of "traps", because "trap", used in these contexts, is just another tag, like "straight" or "lesbian".
You don't say that "lesbian" is inaccurate because the performers might be straight or that one or both of them are trans.
So you shouldn't say that "trap" is inaccurate for the same reasons. Gender identity and sexual preference is irrelevant. However, based on your definition, having the gender identity of a male may be necessary. That'd be, specifically, a gay trap.
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