Armed civilian, 17, shoots 2 dead during Kenosha happening

[Specter Von Baren]

And that's the case for pre-meditation. If he can be shown to have been there to get in a fight, which all of those things that were wrong with him being there point to, that's a case to be made.

You think that warrant was served willy-nilly? That the local prosecutor's office didn't assess their ability to prove first degree murder as opposed to second?

From what I've read, if anyone was looking for a fight it was the first guy that got shot as there's footage of him trying to provoke other armed people to shoot him, saying things like, "Shoot me nigga!"

You think they aren't issuing the warrant to get him into custody after which they will then be looking through evidence for whether he should actually be tried for that? A warrant does not mean they know a person is actually guilty but that they have reason to believe they are.

 

[SilentPony]

I don't mind that. I'm not big on retributive justice, I'd rather the kid get a chance to make up for his mistake with a peaceful and productive life.

I'm less forgiving than that. He denied 2 people life. There's no coming back from that, no way to ever make up for that. And the scales are so off balance even the attempt to balance them is meaningless. Its the equivalent of paying off a billion dollar loan pennies at a time. It'll never even put a dent in it over the course of his lifetime.
Im okay with him being punished.

 

[BrawlMan]

Sadly it looks like they're charging him as a minor. So he'll get cut a deal that includes time already served and maybe a few thousand hours of community service, and then he'll walk.

For their sake I hope not. last I heard he was being charged with first degree homicide. ain't much of a deal that can be made. Unless they want people to start going nuts across the country, they better think hard.

I don't mind that. I'm not big on retributive justice, I'd rather the kid get a chance to make up for his mistake with a peaceful and productive life.

I do. I'm not that big on retribution justice either, but that kid does not give a rat's ass. I don't want him in any type of authority or law enforcement. I highly doubt he'll learn anything from this.

 

[Buyetyen]

That has no bearing on the actual shootings though. He should be charged for illegally handling a weapon while too young for it but it does not change the validity of firing on those he had reason to believe were going to harm him.

Yeah, all he did was murder 2 people. Who hasn't done that as a teenager?

 

[SilentPony]

For their sake I hope not. last I heard he was being charged with first degree homicide. ain't much of a deal that can be made. Unless they want people to start going nuts across the country, they better think hard.

But there's politics involved too. This kid has a huge boner for the cops, was handing out water bottles, telling the cops he wants to be one, and the cops were A-Okay with it. Punishing this kid may piss off cops, and no DA wants that, especially if its a kid that kills BLM supporters.

 

[BrawlMan]

But there's politics involved too. This kid has a huge boner for the cops, was handing out water bottles, telling the cops he wants to be one, and the cops were A-Okay with it. Punishing this kid may piss off cops, and no DA wants that, especially if its a kid that kills BLM supporters.

Oh, fuck the cops then. if they were getting shot up, they would be demanding for blood right now, so they're a bunch of hypocrites. If he ever gets out and they decide to put them in a position of authority, they will be regretting it big time. Sure, some of the older cops may not live to see it, but somebody will. They can make all of the excuses they want but they had a choice.They can never say they never had a choice. they always had a choice, they just wanted the easiest to make themselves feel better or act like they're still a good people. If they really care about protecting innocent people, then they should not haveany problem treating him like an responsible adult.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

But there's politics involved too. This kid has a huge boner for the cops, was handing out water bottles, telling the cops he wants to be one, and the cops were A-Okay with it. Punishing this kid may piss off cops, and no DA wants that, especially if its a kid that kills BLM supporters.

You mean like the politics of how the two people that were shot and killed were a domestic abuser and a convicted sex offender (With someone underage), respectively?

 

[Agema]

I don't mind that. I'm not big on retributive justice, I'd rather the kid get a chance to make up for his mistake with a peaceful and productive life.

Me neither. But sometimes you also want to throw the book at someone to send a message to all the other knuckleheads who were thinking similar ideas.

He's seventeen: he's a painfully naive child who had stupid dreams of upholding whatever stupid ideas were put in his head by people who'd you hope might know better. On the other hand, he's also dangerous. I think that human beings are fundamentally disinclined to kill each other: it's difficult, psychologically disturbing, even traumatic. Maybe it was traumatic for this kid too and nightmares will haunt him for a long time, but someone pumped him up and trained him do what most people would baulk at, so he's already taken a lot of steps down a bad road. He's going to see millions of people like Tucker Carlson call him a hero in the coming weeks, and if that's what he comes away believing despite society telling him he's just a murderer who needs decades in the slammer, better for everyone he doesn't come out.

 

[Buyetyen]

You mean like the politics of how the two people that were shot and killed were a domestic abuser and a convicted sex offender (With someone underage), respectively?

It's legal to murder people if they have a criminal record?

 

[Agema]

It's legal to murder people if they have a criminal record?

I guess if you spray a clip into a crowd of random people and by dumb luck only manage to hit people who've committed a felony, maybe you get a medal instead. Any volunteers to test it out?

 

[Xprimentyl]

I'm less forgiving than that. He denied 2 people life. There's no coming back from that, no way to ever make up for that. And the scales are so off balance even the attempt to balance them is meaningless. Its the equivalent of paying off a billion dollar loan pennies at a time. It'll never even put a dent in it over the course of his lifetime.
Im okay with him being punished.

Agreed. We have a legal delineation between adults and minors, but I'm sorry, the closer you get to that upper limit of being "minor," there has to be some consideration of not just your age, but the extent of your crime and whether or not your "minor" mind was capable of distinguishing right and wrong. I'm 40; hand me an assault rifle, and I'll likely kill myself before anyone else because I have zero experience with firearms. This kid knew exactly what he was doing; he went there with a specific, vetted intent, and he did exactly what he went there to do. You mean to tell me one more year of life, and a magical light bulb was expected to come on teaching him right from wrong and that this type of behavior isn't right?

If we can trust a 16 year old to drive a 2 ton missile at 70 mph responsibly and alone, we should be able to expect a 17 year old to wield a deadly weapon with the same level of responsibility and expect them to know when, where and why to use it. He put himself in a dangerous situation and acted out some sick, vigilante fantasy; immature, I'll give you, but I can't give you unawares.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

It's legal to murder people if they have a criminal record?

When did I say it was?

 

[Buyetyen]

When did I say it was?

Kind of the implication I was getting. You seem pretty intent of justifying these murders.

 

[BrawlMan]

You mean like the politics of how the two people that were shot and killed were a domestic abuser and a convicted sex offender (With someone underage), respectively?

Like he fucking knew that! @Specter Von Baren, you are fooling and playing yourself. I don't hear anything else from you right now. I don't want to talk to you after this post. For how long, I do not know. Cuz right now, all I seen you do is keep making excuses for this guy.

 

[Mister Mumbler]

When did I say it was?

The second you came in with the victims criminal records.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

The second you came in with the victims criminal records.

Like how Pony is saying the only reason he could not be charged is because the kid likes the police?

 

[Mister Mumbler]

Like how Pony is saying the only reason he could not be charged is because the kid likes the police?

When people start using that as justification for why it's all right that he was murdered in cold blood and deserved it too, you let me fucking know.

 

[Agema]

You mean like the politics of how the two people that were shot and killed were a domestic abuser and a convicted sex offender (With someone underage), respectively?

Can I just ask, did they actually have criminal records? Like, that you've been able to properly verify from multiple, reliable sources?

I mean, it seems awful lucky to have shot two people effectively at random, and taken out a paedophile and a repeat domestic abuser. Even if you lucked out mildly by only hitting criminals, the odds are you'd get people caught for buying pot or shoplifting.

It sounds very much like it's too good to be true. And that makes me wonder whether this isn't misinformation. In media management, it's important to get your story out quick ("first impressions count"). The aim here, Tucker Carlson-like, is to paint this Trump-lovin', BLM-opposin' kid as a hero, because there are "guilt by association" ramifications for the right because of what he's done.

 

[SilentPony]

Like how Pony is saying the only reason he could not be charged is because the kid likes the police?

Man your mental gymnastics are incredible! Who did you train under?
It doesn't matter if anyone had a criminal record or was a sex-offender. You can't justify killing someone because of what they did in the past. And Id point out the kid didn't know their records either - as far as he was concerned they were just targets.
And we're forgetting he shot 3 people. And the 3rd person doesn't appear to have any record.

So yeah my point that DAs are historically very chummy with the police is a valid one, your point that two people who had committed crimes in the past were gunned down and that's okay is invalidated.

 

[Dreiko]

So, I just looked into this.

The two dead are a convicted pedophile and a convicted domestic abuser. The guy who got shot in the arm was brandishing a pistol and about to shoot the kid.


This is a mess. A bunch of literal assholes and a dumb kid who thinks he's larping CoD with a rifle he shouldn't even be allowed to have since he's too young to drink or star in porn. Oh well, at least it puts a (bullet)hole in the argument that if someone's holding a gun you can't shoot em in the arm.