Another Incident in Portland
- Thread starter Specter Von Baren
- Start date
I'm making a point more about other incidents.
Again Kyle shot in self defence based on most of the evidence and Police don't owe it to anyone to get shot just to take the shooter in without firing on them.
Would they?
Cause so far on social media the other people are presently celebrating a guy shooting a Trump supporter in the chest and killing him and are mad because the Police didn't bring him in alive.
The dude's own sister basically said it's good he's gone. Dunno if Kyle's sister would say the same about her brother.
USA
"The other people" there are ALWAYS other people that do shit no matter what it is. That does not mean it is representative of the majority, nor does it mean they are representative of members of this site. OTOH we have fox news literally calling those murdering protesters " heroes" and members of this site defending them. That does not amount to " the same thing". How many elected officials are commenting on either situation? What are they saying and what is their political affiliation? Yea...
You really have to do some serious mental gymnastics to attempt to claim that as being the same at all. The details and the whole picture both matter here. I am not about to defend either murderer. They were both very very wrong.
Other incidents only you are talking about that you think are more relatable to yourself and reflect your own fears and frustrations which motivates you to project yourself into other, much less understandable situations that other people are talking about and lead to you defending murderers. Case in point...
And the Charleston guy didn’t mean to kill Heather Heyer.
I get you now Dwarf. You’re not pro-cop. You’re not a fed. You’ve lived in an unfair world your entire life and never cared because things were mostly ok for you. Now they’re not, and you can’t imagine they were bad for people before, so clearly it’s the fault of the outraged that they’re mad and causing you distress. But the world will move on without any consideration for your comfort Dwarf, and it’s time you realize that.
Oh you were specifically saying people on this site would do that?
I just thought you meant in general and was being nice.
Tell you what when you actually get a case that is this obviously self defence you can point to it. However I refuse to accept shooting an apparently unarmed Trump supporter in the chest when he was apparently doing nothing should count as self defence.
The dude in Portland who got shot had a history of attacking people in Portland, had a gun on him, was originally following the shooter not the other way around, and had a baton and mace in hand when the shooter dipped back then decided to shoot him. They’re absurdly comparable scenarios but both are still murderers. No I will not continue this line of argument as I’ve zero desire to defend either of them.
I think Lil was referring to Rittenhouse with that comment. Can't say I like the insinuation it has towards me but it is what it is.
I was talking about members of this site AND our elected officials who represent the majority of the general populations. Who is saying what actually matters here. We literally have elected officials and mainstream media irresponsibly elevating this murderer to inspire and encourage more kids to run out and take up arms and start murdering protesters.
One of the guys who caught the shooting on video from a distance even felt the mace that far away so it isn't like the mace wasn't already deployed at the time of the shooting. However, that still makes it murder. You and I both agree that they were both murderers and should be treated as such, not elevated, not pretend that what they did was okay because.. blah blah.. That is BS, you and I both KNOW it is BS and are not going to pretend it is anything other than what it is. No one was even macing Kyle when he murdered those people, yet they want to act like it was somehow worse. Seriously. They are both bad, neither should have guns down there and people are now dead because of their dangerous and reckless behavior. Yet we still have idiots out there acting like this is somehow okay to do encouraging the next stupid kid to run out and do the same.
Neither were self defense. Kyle and Michael both should not have had guns down there in the middle of a protest that was a dumbass thing to do. neither one of them were minding their own business, both were out looking for trouble and they got it. Both were out starting shit with other people while armed. They both are now murderers and should have been charged accordingly. Of course that can't happen when one of them is dead, but that doesn't change Kyle being a murderer as well now.
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Rittenhouse's case was self-defense.
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Rosenbaum was literally provoking people to shoot him earlier that night and initiated the confrontation. He wore his shirt over his head during the chase when he didn't earlier, one can easily infer that that was to hide his identity when he initiated that chase. Something that has been pointed out is that after Rosenbaum throws his bag, Rittenhouse lifts his rifle up at him before continuing to run and Rosenbaum lifts his arms in the air in a, "What?!" gesture. He then continued to run and try to take Rittenhouse's gun from him, just after some other idiot fired his pistol up in the air and then got shot. Eyewitness testimony from a reporter on the scene also backs up that it was Rosenbaum that initiated the chase. But if we want to debate this again then we should do it in the appropriate thread.
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No because I don't get to eat out most places for various reason. I'm seeing people looking for enemies and trying to just show they can make people do things be that go not be able to eat out or not have family celebrations out because I dunno it has to be all about them and their cause all the time or something.
I love the assumption that things were mostly fine for me. True people have had it far worse but I wouldn't wish a Lumbar puncture, Meningitis as a young child, Tonsillitis, a literal lethal allergy (not food) and a number of food intolerances . Oh and you know the genetic time bomb that means if I ever want kids I'd have to have my partner take a DNA test because of the risk that if they have the gene I do any kids they could literally have a condition where the body basically started to reject their own blood. Oh and you know multiple friends with failed suicide attempts to their name.
I've literally lived inside a "Home" that was in the walls of a bar before which is not as fun as it sounds and I ended up leaving the place in a better state than I found it which should tell you how bad the place was.
I went to a school that was rated the worst in the country (admittedly long after I left)
I for a brief while taught at another school in an area so badly off that the school doesn't even get rated because they know it will be that bad a literal place where hope goes to die in that town .
You condescending to me from your damn ivory throne telling me how I don't realise people have been suffering is hilarious because I won't throw my support fully behind angry people being dicks to random members of the public and causing a nuisance to people as though somehow the restaurant owner, they're staff and the patrons of the place somehow either are obliged to join or protesting them will solve anything in the end. Are people not allowed down time according to you? If so why are you bothering to post here and not out there because that seems pretty fucking hypocritical to me.
Sorry for having a nuanced position but it's one I plan to keep.
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If you are out armed out in public starting shit with people there is no case of self defense to be had period. That is why neither of these cases are such nor should they be treated as such.
Benito Mussolini defined fascism as " The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value... everything in the state, nothing against the State, nothing outside the state."
So no, according to fascist views, you may not have down time, nor any personal opinions of your own.
We went over the relevant laws in question with fine-toothed comb, and came to the conclusion that a case can be made for self-defense.
Of course, you wouldn't know that because you stuck your fingers in your ears when it comes to me.
And there we have it ladies and gentlemen defending the shooting of a Trump supporter for his previous crimes.
Now I don't feel as bad pointing out the you know paedophilia charges of the person Kyle killed.
The cases aren't comparable because based on all evidence the Patriot Prayer person wasn't attacking anyone.
Based on the evidence for Kyle there is evidence of people lunging at him, people being armed, people trying to attack him and a confession from one of those shot that he was planning to try and shoot Kyle before Kyle shot him in the arm first with images even showing said person drawing his gun while Kyle was on the ground.
Oh you mean like the DA trying to push 1st degree premeditated murder charges against Kyle?
Yeh the mace the guys friend was using in this case.
Also mace isn't that easily lethal. You walk away from it normally.
So the response to mace is now to shoot people?
No-one was macing Kyle. They were lunging at him and shots were being fired around and even one guy who lived who was shot in the arm was drawing a gun against Kyle.
Oh and the gun wasn't even Kyle's own one.
Yeah and nobody else was talking about that they were talking about a member of a fascist militia.
In which none of this disputes anything I thought. Rad. Some of the most white person responses to being called on this shit I’ve ever seen. Like the entire encyclopedia of em.
And reflexively defending one of the murderers isn’t nuanced.
First of all, have you actually ever been around BEAR Mace? you can't really walk away from bear mace, like the guy filming had stated he was already that far away and the mace was still affecting him. That isn't the point. Having guns down there at all was the first problem. Using them on another human being was the second problem. Doing either of those things is both irresponsible and reckless and puts them at fault.
Elected Officials and Fox News are the ones behaving irresponsibly by encouraging more kids to run out and murder people. The DA should charge him with Murder, that is what it is. The gun being someone else's doesn't change anything for him, however, the person who gave a minor a gun in the first place should be charged as well.
A kid like Kyle wouldn't have been able to get rattled by shots being fired and him being in the middle of an angry protest and start shooting people if he had not been down there armed in the first place. Him being armed down there was the problem. Him shooting people was the second problem.Doing either of those things is both irresponsible and reckless and puts him at fault.
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How was he starting shit? He didn't initiate any of the events where he shot someone.
Nope. Fuck off with that. Murder’s murder, dude’s dead, unacceptable. Trying to troll me with this to push me to do something I find utterly repulsive is not gonna work because I have more of a spine than you.
Not that anyone deserved any death whatsoever, and speaking generally so as not to give any such impression, Patriot Prayer had been assaulting people that day and tend to attack people on the periphery of protests and in the random corners of Portland more generally.