Netflix Cuties becomes the next piece in an ever more idiotic culture war

[Specter Von Baren]

If the girls goal was to be JUST like Nikki Minaj and Brittany spears, then yes. They don't want to look like a bunch of girls role playing stars, they wanted to be viewed in the exact same way.

Do you have anything to base this belief on? Do you have some interview with the girls where they gave their opinion on all of this or something?

 

[Houseman]

We have the same thing in the US as well though. I do not think this is limited to one culture. Girls all over the world go through this same awkward stage. I think that because guys do not have it the same way as girls they have difficulty trying to process what they see the girls going through.

I mean, the girls pictured in the links aren't "going through" anything. They're not exploring their sexuality. They're just being drawn naked, undressing, in cat-suits, etc.
The one thing they have in common is that they're all french-produced shows.

 

[lil devils x]

See that's where im at too. As an American I find the sexualization of children incredibly distasteful, dangerous and disturbing. But that's my opinion on my culture's attitude.
But this is French, and to them its not a triple D threat. To them its yeah we've sexualized young teens, that's the point, we're okay with it. And all I can say its its not my thing, and I hope you know what you're doing.

When you look at tween role models in the US, such as Brittany Spears, however, How is what happens in the US any different? Actually think this happened earlier in the US than it does in France due to the sheer amount of exposure we have to it in the US. I remember seeing this stuff at 4 and pretending to dance like a stripper with a boa emulating it with my sisters on the coffee table. I think my mom left some old Marilyn Monroe movie on at the time, and we were pretending to be a bunch of Marilyns. Have you listened to what Dolly Parton said about how she " created herself" She literally emulated a prostitute.

 

[lil devils x]

Do you have anything to base this belief on? Do you have some interview with the girls where they gave their opinion on all of this or something?

Do I have to? I am not aware of any girl in existence that didn't go through this EXACT same stage. They just finally addressed it realistically. Any girl that survived that awkward stage of her life can see that is what it is. Did you listen to the director? She created this from her own life and the many girls she interviewed to create this movie. The movie itself is the life experience of the many girls combined. That is why when I see these things I see what me and my sisters and my friends all went through as well.

 

[SilentPony]

When you look at tween role models in the US, such as Brittany Spears, however, How is what happens in the US any different? Actually think this happened earlier in the US than it does in France due to the sheer amount of exposure we have to it in the US. I remember seeing this stuff at 4 and pretending to dance like a stripper with a boa emulating it with my sisters on the coffee table. I think my mom left some old Marilyn Monroe movie on at the time, and we were pretending to be a bunch of Marilyns. Have you listened to what Dolly Parton said about how she " created herself" She literally emulated a prostitute.

I think the difference is the legality. Yeah companies have been selling sex to young girls for decades, while pretending to protect innocence.
But at least here in the states if a grown adult tries to have sex with a 14 year old its a crime. In other parts of the world, not so much.

 

[lil devils x]

I think the difference is the legality. Yeah companies have been selling sex to young girls for decades, while pretending to protect innocence.
But at least here in the states if a grown adult tries to have sex with a 14 year old its a crime. In other parts of the world, not so much.

I think you misunderstand. Young girls want to be sexy, but they are not ready for actual sex with another person. In a young girls mind, they do not equate being sexy and attractive to actual intercourse. Girls are in beauty pageants, dress " sexy" and revealing and dance sexy even at a young age, girls actually view that as separate than actual intercourse and do not mentally relate it. At that age, they think about kissing and making out, but not actually trying to get pregnant for the most part. It is not viewed through your eyes by girls. Girls in the US view it as being " normal" to do these things. Actual sex is a completely separate matter in our minds. We do not view these as being related. Dressing and dancing sexy for girls is like celebrating their freedom and it makes them feel happy and free. The way this is viewed from male perspective is completely different.

You see, girls do this for themselves, not caring what someone else has to say about it. They aren't doing it for anyone but themselves. They still do this when alone or with other girls because it really isn't about boys in the first place.

 

[SilentPony]

I think you misunderstand. Young girls want to be sexy, but they are not ready for actual sex with another person. In a young girls mind, they do not equate being sexy and attractive to actual intercourse. Girls are in beauty pageants, dress " sexy" and revealing and dance sexy even at a young age, girls actually view that as separate than actual intercourse and do not mentally relate it. At that age, they think about kissing and making out, but not actually trying to get pregnant for the most part. It is not viewed through your eyes by girls. Girls in the US view it as being " normal" to do these things. Actual sex is a completely separate matter in our minds. We do not view these as being related.

But guys don't. Guys see being sexy as the first step to sex. Its in the name. Sexy. To a guy the only reason someone would want to be sexy is so they can be viewed as sexy, which means wanting people to want to have sex with you. And young boys think the same way - once puberty starts its sex time. Not sexy time, sex time.
And in France, Japan and other cultures those little girls who are dressing and acting sexy are fair game.

 

[lil devils x]

But guys don't. Guys see being sexy as the first step to sex. Its in the name. Sexy. To a guy the only reason someone would want to be sexy is so they can be viewed as sexy, which means wanting people to want to have sex with you. And young boys think the same way - once puberty starts its sex time. Not sexy time, sex time.
And in France, Japan and other cultures those little girls who are dressing and acting sexy are fair game.

Not everyone in those cultures feels that way either, maybe only certain guys, but it certainly is not universal. That is it, though it is NOT girls fault that men are attracted to girls feeling confident and free about themselves and no, girls should not be policed or punished due to what some dude thinks. Reminds me of when me and my sisters were playing with the sprinklers and slip n slide in our yard in our bikinis and having a care free time and that creepy guy drove into our driveway and started trying to get us to go into his car.. My brother smashed his car up with baseball bat until he left, My brother was so raging angry that he did that, but see that was on the guy for behaving that way, that was all the creepy guys fault for behaving that way, not anything we were actually doing was wrong. Policing girls and telling them they have to hide themselves and not just be themselves is wrong. It isn't girls fault that guys think and behave the way they do. Sounds like the guys need to work on their own cultural problems instead of trying to hide girls and keep girls from having fun and minding their own business.

 

[Houseman]

You see, girls do this for themselves, not caring what someone else has to say about it. They aren't doing it for anyone but themselves.

In Cuties, the lead girl does a striptease for a boy in order to convince him to let her keep his phone.

So yeah, I guess you can say she did this for herself, in that she used her sexuality to manipulate others so that she could get what she wants.
But I don't think this is quite what you meant.

I mean, just the act of using one's own desires against them shows an awareness of the "power" a girl has over a boy in this respect. This shows a knowledge of what girls have and what boys want.

Again, this is an 11-year-old.

 

[SilentPony]

Not everyone in those cultures feels that way either, maybe only certain guys, but it certainly is not universal. That is it, though it is NOT girls fault that men are attracted to girls feeling confident and free about themselves and no, girls should not be policed or punished due to what some dude thinks. Reminds me of when me and my sisters were playing with the sprinklers and slip n slide in our yard in our bikinis and having a care free time and that creepy guy drove into our driveway and started trying to get us to go into his car.. my brother smashed his car up with baseball bat until he left. but see that was on him, not anything we were actually doing was wrong.

Oh Im not saying the girls in cuties are doing anything wrong per se - again as an American I don't view them as young women, I view them as children. and in the states legally they are children. And the whole reason we categorize them as children is because we don't view them as mentally mature and experienced enough to consent to something like sexual intercourse. And by your own words little girls see a difference between being sexy and sex itself.
However in these other nations and cultures they do view them, these little girls, as mature enough to consent to sex. And that's what some people are worried about - that a low age of consent could harm these girls. And I doubt girls in France, Japan, the Middle East are more mature and experienced than one from the West, to the point sex with an adult isn't emotionally damaging. They would be 'consenting' to something they're not mature enough to understand. It'd be like having the enlistment age for the military at 12 or 13.

As an aside I wonder if the age of consent in some cultures is less to do with the girl's emotional maturity and experience, and more to do with puberty and her period, meaning she is physically capable of getting pregnant so she much be emotionally ready too.

 

[McElroy]

Having them act like posting nudes happened and not actually having them do it is okay, but I would think they cross the line if they actually had them do it.

You and everyone else too can rest assured that there is no chance they actually did it. It'd be considered child abuse. That Good Luck Chuck scene is cringeworthy (much like the rest of the movie), but I can imagine those kids had a blast making it. Though the editor probably didn't.

OT: Netflix blew its marketing. People didn't even know it's a French movie called Mignonnes. And the truth is the director lady could've messed up and the movie is crap. Who knows, nobody seems to have watched it.

 

[ObsidianJones]

I will hold off until I actually see it. Having them act like posting nudes happened and not actually having them do it is okay, but I would think they cross the line if they actually had them do it.

I think the conversation about it is one we need to have. SO many girls are doing this and sexting and if we just pretend it isn't happening, it only causes more problems rather than actually addressing it in media.

When I was a Para in Brooklyn, I was an anomaly of sorts. I was a large, much more fit black guy taking care of children. No one really met me for the first time and was ok. They were more like "Are you here for your child? No ... Then why are you here?!"

It took some time to win people over. I didn't win everyone over. But I won enough. But I was scrutinized every second of every day I was with them. I didn't want to walk alone with anyone, because that happened once and that child was pulled out of the program because the mother thought it was inappropriate and I was almost brought up before a disciplinary review because of it.

The child reported nothing, because there was nothing to report. But the fear that I could have done something was enough.

This is to say that... for the most part, a lot of guys are in a really weird position when it comes to children. Girls, especially. Men need to be open, understanding, enlightened... but if we talk too much about it, people are ready to put us on a list because we're probably perverts.

I think most men stymie sexual talk with their little girls because this is a topic that they a.) feel like they are going to lose their girls once they discover boys (and that's anecdotally true from what I've seen) and/or b.) have no idea how to broach the topic because it's such a taboo that the literal only time they probably can voice their opinions about it in any acceptable form is when they are in front of their growing daughter and having to answer questions that (once again) makes a lot of us guys feel we're going to get on a list if we talk to any girl about this stuff.

This is just another facet of "We demand change, but while we keep the same oppresive status quo that prohibits growth" mindset that is so pervasive nowadays.

To be clear, yes, young girls should be not only aware of their growth and understand that their desires (or lack their of) is perfectly normal, nothing to be ashamed of, and is going to be apart of her life in hopefully a beneficial manner for a long time to come. But to ask some of us to be a part of that process while maintaining an atmosphere of "If I even think you stepped over the line, Child Protective Services will be here faster than a lightning bolt"... Well, that makes it a mighty scary place. Conversations can not spring from such an atmosphere.

 

[lil devils x]

Oh Im not saying the girls in cuties are doing anything wrong per se - again as an American I don't view them as young women, I view them as children. and in the states legally they are children. And the whole reason we categorize them as children is because we don't view them as mentally mature and experienced enough to consent to something like sexual intercourse. And by your own words little girls see a difference between being sexy and sex itself.
However in these other nations and cultures they do view them, these little girls, as mature enough to consent to sex. And that's what some people are worried about - that a low age of consent could harm these girls. And I doubt girls in France, Japan, the Middle East are more mature and experienced than one from the West, to the point sex with an adult isn't emotionally damaging. They would be 'consenting' to something they're not mature enough to understand. It'd be like having the enlistment age for the military at 12 or 13.

As an aside I wonder if the age of consent in some cultures is less to do with the girl's emotional maturity and experience, and more to do with puberty and her period, meaning she is physically capable of getting pregnant so she much be emotionally ready too.

I think you are correct in that is definitely the problem that they try to gauge " womanhood" by when we get our periods, and that is terribly wrong. I got mine earlier than most and I was no where near ready for actual sex, I was just a little kid, with a little kid world view. Due to being so young, neither I or my classmates were mature enough to handle me growing boobs at that age and reacted like little kids about it. They poked them, wanted to touch them and giggled about them and I wanted to hide under my desk and disappear, both typical reactions for little kids. Mentally we are still kids even when our body was growing curves that attracted attention I was in no way prepared to handle. It is one thing to be a kid and feel care free it is another once you feel targeted and isolated. Girls mentally do not make the connection to what guys are actually thinking and part of the problem is when we police and treat girls as if they have done something wrong or bad for just goofing off and having fun simply due to how males react to them.

TBH, even as an adult, women are not generally thinking about what males think of us when we dance even now, we worry more about our own opinion. It honestly is just awkward when the thought of what a guy thinks about enters your mind and makes you self conscious. We are having fun UNTIL guys ruin the fun. Then we have to worry about his opinions instead of just our own and that isn't as much fun. LOL

 

[Houseman]

. Girls mentally do not make the connection to what guys are actually thinking

11-year-old deliberate striptease in order to manipulate a guy. In the movie.
That shows clear knowledge into what guys are thinking.
This isn't just innocent little girl stuff.
This isn't just goofing off and having fun.

Neither is posting a pic of your vag on the internet, which is something the protagonist also does. Again, at age 11.

 

[lil devils x]

When I was a Para in Brooklyn, I was an anomaly of sorts. I was a large, much more fit black guy taking care of children. No one really met me for the first time and was ok. They were more like "Are you here for your child? No ... Then why are you here?!"

It took some time to win people over. I didn't win everyone over. But I won enough. But I was scrutinized every second of every day I was with them. I didn't want to walk alone with anyone, because that happened once and that child was pulled out of the program because the mother thought it was inappropriate and I was almost brought up before a disciplinary review because of it.

The child reported nothing, because there was nothing to report. But the fear that I could have done something was enough.

This is to say that... for the most part, a lot of guys are in a really weird position when it comes to children. Girls, especially. Men need to be open, understanding, enlightened... but if we talk too much about it, people are ready to put us on a list because we're probably perverts.

I think most men stymie sexual talk with their little girls because this is a topic that they a.) feel like they are going to lose their girls once they discover boys (and that's anecdotally true from what I've seen) and/or b.) have no idea how to broach the topic because it's such a taboo that the literal only time they probably can voice their opinions about it in any acceptable form is when they are in front of their growing daughter and having to answer questions that (once again) makes a lot of us guys feel we're going to get on a list if we talk to any girl about this stuff.

This is just another facet of "We demand change, but while we keep the same oppresive status quo that prohibits growth" mindset that is so pervasive nowadays.

To be clear, yes, young girls should be not only aware of their growth and understand that their desires (or lack their of) is perfectly normal, nothing to be ashamed of, and is going to be apart of her life in hopefully a beneficial manner for a long time to come. But to ask some of us to be a part of that process while maintaining an atmosphere of "If I even think you stepped over the line, Child Protective Services will be here faster than a lightning bolt"... Well, that makes it a mighty scary place. Conversations can not spring from such an atmosphere.

Yea, I see what you are talking about and it REALLY has to be hard on men who work with kids. Good grief everyone kept saying the male choir teacher here was gay. The guy was happily married with kids. People can be really cruel when a guy isn't fitting the mold to what they think a man should do. They seem to think it is their place to " bully him" into doing something other men find acceptable. Toxic masculinity BS. Women feed into this as much as men though as well by worrying about what that creepy guy is going to do to their kids. Understandably due to the sheer amount of times we actually have to deal with something creepy being done to our kids, but that just makes it really hard on anyone who doesn't fit their " mold" of what they think he should do or be.

I can imagine for a Dad it is likely the thing he dreads the most to have to talk to his daughter about her period, about masturbation, how she feels about her own body and all the other stuff that dads just want to cover their ears and pretend can never exist in their universe. LOL

 

[Specter Von Baren]

When I was a Para in Brooklyn, I was an anomaly of sorts. I was a large, much more fit black guy taking care of children. No one really met me for the first time and was ok. They were more like "Are you here for your child? No ... Then why are you here?!"

It took some time to win people over. I didn't win everyone over. But I won enough. But I was scrutinized every second of every day I was with them. I didn't want to walk alone with anyone, because that happened once and that child was pulled out of the program because the mother thought it was inappropriate and I was almost brought up before a disciplinary review because of it.

The child reported nothing, because there was nothing to report. But the fear that I could have done something was enough.

This is to say that... for the most part, a lot of guys are in a really weird position when it comes to children. Girls, especially. Men need to be open, understanding, enlightened... but if we talk too much about it, people are ready to put us on a list because we're probably perverts.

I think most men stymie sexual talk with their little girls because this is a topic that they a.) feel like they are going to lose their girls once they discover boys (and that's anecdotally true from what I've seen) and/or b.) have no idea how to broach the topic because it's such a taboo that the literal only time they probably can voice their opinions about it in any acceptable form is when they are in front of their growing daughter and having to answer questions that (once again) makes a lot of us guys feel we're going to get on a list if we talk to any girl about this stuff.

This is just another facet of "We demand change, but while we keep the same oppresive status quo that prohibits growth" mindset that is so pervasive nowadays.

To be clear, yes, young girls should be not only aware of their growth and understand that their desires (or lack their of) is perfectly normal, nothing to be ashamed of, and is going to be apart of her life in hopefully a beneficial manner for a long time to come. But to ask some of us to be a part of that process while maintaining an atmosphere of "If I even think you stepped over the line, Child Protective Services will be here faster than a lightning bolt"... Well, that makes it a mighty scary place. Conversations can not spring from such an atmosphere.

Para? As in paramedic?

 

[ObsidianJones]

Para? As in paramedic?

A paraprofessional

How Educational Paraprofessionals Assist Teachers and Students

Educational paraprofessionals help children and teachers, especially in special education classrooms. Learn about their qualifications and duties.

www.verywellfamily.com

It's a fancy way to say a teacher's aide. I loved it. Kids are amazing.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I feel like a large part of this is "Americans' first French movie". What scandalizes one culture is met with complete apathy by another. From what I've experienced through the people and their movies (and briefly living there) part of the national spirit is celebrating being risqué while pretending they don't give a shit about it.

Either way I'm not watching the movie. Nothing for me in it.

 

[lil devils x]

I feel like a large part of this is "Americans' first French movie". What scandalizes one culture is met with complete apathy by another. From what I've experienced through the people and their movies (and briefly living there) part of the national spirit is celebrating being risqué while pretending they don't give a shit about it.

Either way I'm not watching the movie. Nothing for me in it.

When you listen to what the creator of this movie had to say, I don't think that was the intention at all though. Samtemdo8 linked it earlier in the thread here:

Netflix Cuties becomes the next piece in an ever more idiotic culture war

Based on what I read, the director didn't grow up with these issues, she just was present as an adult at some event in france where she saw kids twerking and the audience were muslim women in their full ninja gear and she was disturbed by the girls dancing. So it's less that she was a kid with...

forums.escapistmagazine.com

 

[Kwak]

I'm confused.
Is this show a fictionalized movie, a documentary, or a 'reality tv' series?