Biden v. Trump Election Mega Thread

Who will win the election?

  • SleepyJoe

    Votes: 15 30.0%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • It doesn't matter who wins, because we will all lose in some way.

    Votes: 26 52.0%

  • Total voters
    50
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Gergar12

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None of this explains why you quit on all the other races. Nor does it tell me what's stopping you from just becoming a right wing shill as you threatened in the previous post.



Tariffs are only useful for protecting a nascent domestic industry from foreign competition. Tariffs on Chinese goods would have passed the expenses right on down to you. Cutting off your nose to spite someone else's face, in other words.
Because it's not the right time yet. I haven't been able to theoretically make the biggest impact yet.

Oh and I did not quit the other races, I voted for a democratic supreme court in the state, Columbus Ohio's version of a green energy plan, a police commission oversight board. I also likely voted for the 12th district' democratic representative, but who I voted for as president you can guess what I did.
 

Buyetyen

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Because it's not the right time yet. I haven't been able to theoretically make the biggest impact yet.
I have no idea what that means so I'm just going to go ahead and write it off as an empty threat.

Oh and I did not quit the other races, I voted for a democratic supreme court in the state, Columbus Ohio's version of a green energy plan, a police commission oversight board. I also likely voted for the 12th district' democratic representative, but who I voted for as president you can guess what I did.
That's it, huh? I'm meant to be impressed by this? You "likely" voted? You either voted or you didn't. And I don't have to guess, you told me weeks ago. You don't exactly play things close to the vest.
 

Gergar12

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I have no idea what that means so I'm just going to go ahead and write it off as an empty threat.



That's it, huh? I'm meant to be impressed by this? You "likely" voted? You either voted or you didn't. And I don't have to guess, you told me weeks ago. You don't exactly play things close to the vest.
I voted democrat everything but the president because if I want to get cleaner air, and cleaner water, and fight climate change. The local city council bribed me with a good policy for once.

The reason I don't want to go email PragerU is that even if I did Biden would still win, what's the point?
 

Buyetyen

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I voted democrat everything but the president, because if I wouldn't get cleaner air, and cleaner water, and fight climate change.

The reason I don't want to go email PragerU is that even if I did Biden would still win, what's the point?
Congratulations then on clearing my insanely low expectations of you.

As for your empty threat, ultimatums always come from a position of powerlessness. We both know you're never going to do it. It's never going to be "the right time." And really, if you wanted Trump to win just to spite Biden, how badly could you really want all those things you voted for? How important can they really be to you when your petty, wounded ego takes so much priority?
 

Gergar12

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Congratulations then on clearing my insanely low expectations of you.

As for your empty threat, ultimatums always come from a position of powerlessness. We both know you're never going to do it. It's never going to be "the right time." And really, if you wanted Trump to win just to spite Biden, how badly could you really want all those things you voted for? How important can they really be to you when your petty, wounded ego takes so much priority?
Because Biden is literally up 10.5 points vs Trump on 538, at this point the Post Office would literally need to burn people's ballots in order to have Republicans win, and that won't happen.

Trump could cure cancer tomorrow, and he would still lose, so how would a PragerU video swing the tide, it wouldn't. And it's not an ultimatum on you. It's me wanting to punish the CCP, and the democrats for building up China's economic, and thus military power.

Edit: And the fact the CCP aborted my two siblings.

Also, I never said I voted for Trump or Biden.
 

Kae

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And yet big tech is being looked into to an extent and right to repair has been seemingly making gains.
Which absolutely fucking sucks, but they are basing this on the precedent established by companies like John Deere, that being said I despise big tech companies like Apple and Tesla too, this doesn't really contradict my point, it simply emphasises how right I am about the tyranny of corporations.

Do they?

Or are they the same level of cutbacks that were happening before based on usage of boxes and locations which is being spun now as somehow an attack on said sector?
These changes were already undergoing because Democrats are also shit and they also want the post office gone, if anything it's proof that neither party gives a rat's ass about the well-being of rural communities, if they did they would recognise the value of maintaining the post office and even investing more on it, they have this absurd twisted notion that it must bring a profit, when in reality it just needs to provide a service that is of vital importance to the citizens of it's country.

The first people to be shot under anarchist rule will be the anarchists.
This only demonstrates your ignorance about Anarchy, you clearly neither know what it actually is, how it works or the fact that plenty of Anarchic states have existed throughout history, and most have fallen due to intervention by filthy Neoliberal capitalists rather than a failure of the system, indeed we don't have enough information to fully judge the merits of the system but that's only because Capitalists keep intervening so that you don't see it, of course for it to fully work, ideally we need to get rid of Capitalism in a World Wide scale since it has proven to be a cancer on society and the World, I mean it's literally bringing about the end of the World, it doesn't get worse than that.

All you get under communist system is corruption still going on and people getting screwed over one way or another by the one party.
That's why there have been several solutions that have been thought of to prevent what happened to the Soviet Union from being repeated again, observing different factors that lead to it's downfall, clearly there was too much emphasis within it on military spending which led to food scarcity throughout the Soviet Union, there was too little emphasis on the quality of the products the public consumed which led to general malcontent, and well the corruption you talk about was mostly caused by CIA infiltrations on the Soviet government so that is partially the fault of Capitalism, however I do agree that as long as there is an Authoritarian government there will be corruption, which is why I want Anarchy, with a horizontal power-structure so no one individual holds power above the rest, that is the point of Anarchy to eliminate all unnecessary power structures.

1) Trump is better for the UK to get a trade deal with as the Obama administration (that Biden was VP in) said the UK would go to the back of the queue
2) To actually change the world you have to recognise the global reach of corporations and as such you have to stop global exploitation of people from less well of nations. That means a harder stance on migration which actually in the long run benefits those countries that were being exploited by draining less talent and skilled workers helping them develop more.
3) You want to push for changes to green energy etc you need the USA to not get into more wars to install friendly governments to get easy oil supply thus costs go up and corporations see green energy as the cheaper option.
4) Culling bullshit critical theory stuff that is used a lot to turn people against one another (and is said to have helped the downfall of occupy wall street) means people will be less about fighting one another and more about taking on the corporations.
5) China and it's love of censoring things via proxies being shut down is a good thing for most entertainment.
1) Don't really know about that.
2) Yes, exactly the Corporations are more powerful than most governments which is why they need to be appropriated from those horrible rich assholes that own them so that we can use their resources for the people, as for migration, the migration problem only exists because of Capitalism, if it wasn't because Capitalism forces a certain amount of the population to be unemployed so that there's always competition in the job market willing to accept lower & lower wages and the migrants are important because as long as they keep them outlawed as second class citizens they can utilise them to bring that exploitation of the worker to the maximum, as they don't have the same protections a regular citizen has, if you want to address migration abolishing Capitalism would make more sense, but failing that if migrants had the exact same rights as the regular population there would be no reason for companies to hire them over regular citizens, in fact since most of them don't speak the local language they would be at a severe disadvantage on the job market.
4) Yes, congratulations that's what we on the left are trying to achieve, we want the working class to unite and take for themselves what's rightfully theirs so that we can end Authoritarian rule and we don't have to do what the corporate and politician scum want, this is directly the opposite of what Trump wants BTW and you'd need to be pretty stupid to believe that corporate scum want this, why do you think he likes the Proud Boys and only condemns the KKK reluctantly?
5) Yeah, I don't like China either, it's government is far too authoritarian for me to approve of such a thing, after all unlike you I actually believe in freedom for the people.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Because Biden is literally up 10.5 points vs Trump on 538, at this point the Post Office would literally need to burn people's ballots in order to have Republicans win, and that won't happen.

Trump could cure cancer tomorrow, and he would still lose, so how would a PragerU video swing the tide, it wouldn't. And it's not an ultimatum on you. It's me wanting to punish the CCP, and the democrats for building up China's economic, and thus military power.

Edit: And the fact the CCP aborted my two siblings.

Also, I never said I voted for Trump or Biden.
1) No-one knows the actual results yet vote counts aren't likely getting out.
2) Ken Bone literally voted Hillary last time and has said he's voting independent this time. Ken Bone walked away from the democrats so if he's indicative or other undecided voters it could be a shock turn again.
3) As I pointed out before in some areas it was claimed Hillary was 20+ points ahead.
4) the Narrative of the invariable win for Biden could just make people think they don't have to vote for him or bother anyway while enthusing Trump's base to vote in higher numbers.
5) This time the scare tactics aren't going to be a effective because there has been 4 years of Trump and he's had gaffs but we're not at war. North Korea has shut up for a while and you've clearly not seen the bashing of the UK government by business owners for keep shutting down or limiting things at present if you think American business owners will be upset with Trump
 

Dwarvenhobble

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This only demonstrates your ignorance about Anarchy, you clearly neither know what it actually is, how it works or the fact that plenty of Anarchic states have existed throughout history, and most have fallen due to intervention by filthy Neoliberal capitalists rather than a failure of the system, indeed we don't have enough information to fully judge the merits of the system but that's only because Capitalists keep intervening so that you don't see it, of course for it to fully work, ideally we need to get rid of Capitalism in a World Wide scale since it has proven to be a cancer on society and the World, I mean it's literally bringing about the end of the World, it doesn't get worse than that.
Or how it would end up no with no-one truly having power over another. People will want a return to comfort and order to do that they need to depose who they see as influencing most which be will the ones seen most to have led the previous revolution to install anarchy.

That is if it doesn't determinate into Social Darwinism first

That's why there have been several solutions that have been thought of to prevent what happened to the Soviet Union from being repeated again, observing different factors that lead to it's downfall, clearly there was too much emphasis within it on military spending which led to food scarcity throughout the Soviet Union, there was too little emphasis on the quality of the products the public consumed which led to general malcontent, and well the corruption you talk about was mostly caused by CIA infiltrations on the Soviet government so that is partially the fault of Capitalism, however I do agree that as long as there is an Authoritarian government there will be corruption, which is why I want Anarchy, with a horizontal power-structure so no one individual holds power above the rest, that is the point of Anarchy to eliminate all unnecessary power structures.
Which would mean no police most likely so now law enforcement and chaos as soon as some people lost those power structures holding them back.


1) Don't really know about that.
2) Yes, exactly the Corporations are more powerful than most governments which is why they need to be appropriated from those horrible rich assholes that own them so that we can use their resources for the people, as for migration, the migration problem only exists because of Capitalism, if it wasn't because Capitalism forces a certain amount of the population to be unemployed so that there's always competition in the job market willing to accept lower & lower wages and the migrants are important because as long as they keep them outlawed as second class citizens they can utilise them to bring that exploitation of the worker to the maximum, as they don't have the same protections a regular citizen has, if you want to address migration abolishing Capitalism would make more sense, but failing that if migrants had the exact same rights as the regular population there would be no reason for companies to hire them over regular citizens, in fact since most of them don't speak the local language they would be at a severe disadvantage on the job market.
4) Yes, congratulations that's what we on the left are trying to achieve, we want the working class to unite and take for themselves what's rightfully theirs so that we can end Authoritarian rule and we don't have to do what the corporate and politician scum want, this is directly the opposite of what Trump wants BTW and you'd need to be pretty stupid to believe that corporate scum want this, why do you think he likes the Proud Boys and only condemns the KKK reluctantly?
5) Yeah, I don't like China either, it's government is far too authoritarian for me to approve of such a thing, after all unlike you I actually believe in freedom for the people.
1) We got to the talking stage quicker than we would have with Hillary in power.
2) Far easier to just to you know try to shut some of it down then try to abolish capitalism globally all at once lol.
4) You have seen people right? One of the big issues in Russian communism was unqualified people promoted to positions of power because they were worker and deemed loyal to the party.
5) I believe in Freedom. Just not free everything grab as much as you can carry.
 

Kae

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Or how it would end up no with no-one truly having power over another. People will want a return to comfort and order to do that they need to depose who they see as influencing most which be will the ones seen most to have led the previous revolution to install anarchy.

That is if it doesn't determinate into Social Darwinism first
This is speculation baser on nothing and bullshit pseudo-science that hasn't been proven, bravo a compelling argument to be sure, why don't you go read Chomsky instead?

Which would mean no police most likely so now law enforcement and chaos as soon as some people lost those power structures holding them back.
Completely ignoring the fact that there is a structure to defend against crime based on civil patrols, that has been proven to work in the places where it has been used, I invite you to research the EZLN (Ejercito Zapatista de la Liberacion Nacional) to see how crime is handled under an Anarchic society.

1) We got to the talking stage quicker than we would have with Hillary in power.
2) Far easier to just to you know try to shut some of it down then try to abolish capitalism globally all at once lol.
4) You have seen people right? One of the big issues in Russian communism was unqualified people promoted to positions of power because they were worker and deemed loyal to the party.
5) I believe in Freedom. Just not free everything grab as much as you can carry.
1) I was being honest, I legitimately don't know about this, I'm neither from the USA or the UK so I have no reason to care about this in particular, so I didn't research it, the USA does impact my country directly though so I'm more familiar with it's politics than the UK.
2) Far easier but ultimately ineffective as Neoliberal Capitalism has proven time and time again, obviously achieving Worldwide Anarchy is kind off a pipe dream but rather than fight among us we must unite under the only worth fighting for, a world where we won't be slaves to corporations or the Authoritative government.
4) You say that as if Capitalism assigns anything based on skill, under Capitalism it's all Nepotism and corruption and blatantly so, it is unfortunately a fault of the people, however one that is in effect regardless of which economic system is operating, and at least you don't get to inherit a position just because you were born rich, which combined with universal education makes it more likely to land in capable hands than under Capitalism.
5) Again, this shows a fundamental misconception of what Anarchism really is, please read a book or at least a wikipedia article, because you simply look foolish making these claims, under Anarchy you're not free to rob other people, that's just not how it works, sure part of the core principles is to abolish private property but by that we mean that factories and equipment within it as well as other things necessary to work, by this we mean from companies and organisations, not from the people, your PC would still be yours, your house would be yours to inhabit and so would anything within it, seriously read a book.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Stupid question but couldn't they just pass a second bill after this first one? Get the money out there ASAP and if they have to do it again in 2 months time or whatever.
To their credit, iirc that Republican bill also has nasty shit in it, like protecting corporations from getting sued over COVID cases. I'm personally a bit split on it because of trash like that in the bill.

However I know that's not how you respond to people concerned about getting relief now.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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This is speculation baser on nothing and bullshit pseudo-science that hasn't been proven, bravo a compelling argument to be sure, why don't you go read Chomsky instead?
wouldn't that also be speculation over how things would work when they didn't in reality?

Completely ignoring the fact that there is a structure to defend against crime based on civil patrols, that has been proven to work in the places where it has been used, I invite you to research the EZLN (Ejercito Zapatista de la Liberacion Nacional) to see how crime is handled under an Anarchic society.
I mean the what was it 3 dead from Chaz patrol really does inspire confidence there in a non structured community police force. That's not to mention the other incidents that happened.

1) I was being honest, I legitimately don't know about this, I'm neither from the USA or the UK so I have no reason to care about this in particular, so I didn't research it, the USA does impact my country directly though so I'm more familiar with it's politics than the UK.
2) Far easier but ultimately ineffective as Neoliberal Capitalism has proven time and time again, obviously achieving Worldwide Anarchy is kind off a pipe dream but rather than fight among us we must unite under the only worth fighting for, a world where we won't be slaves to corporations or the Authoritative government.
4) You say that as if Capitalism assigns anything based on skill, under Capitalism it's all Nepotism and corruption and blatantly so, it is unfortunately a fault of the people, however one that is in effect regardless of which economic system is operating, and at least you don't get to inherit a position just because you were born rich, which combined with universal education makes it more likely to land in capable hands than under Capitalism.
5) Again, this shows a fundamental misconception of what Anarchism really is, please read a book or at least a wikipedia article, because you simply look foolish making these claims, under Anarchy you're not free to rob other people, that's just not how it works, sure part of the core principles is to abolish private property but by that we mean that factories and equipment within it as well as other things necessary to work, by this we mean from companies and organisations, not from the people, your PC would still be yours, your house would be yours to inhabit and so would anything within it, seriously read a book.
2) No far easier to make an economic argument for why a lot of economic migration hurts everyone in the world at present. Than to argue and persuade everyone to abandon capitalism.

4) It is nepotism and corruption but that will only get you so far and let you hold on so long if you're not making the money or costing the company money.

5) The question is who will be able to prove otherwise? Who knows maybe this highly expensive set of tools from the local factory was just my private set I happened to have anyway........
 

Dwarvenhobble

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To their credit, iirc that Republican bill also has nasty shit in it, like protecting corporations from getting sued over COVID cases. I'm personally a bit split on it because of trash like that in the bill.

However I know that's not how you respond to people concerned about getting relief now.
Then either play dirty back and put a clause in they you can't sue for catching Covid but can sue for endangerment by failing to put in protections, precautions and procedures to keep workers safe. That will put the win up the republicans if suddenly it goes from anyone getting it can sue to anyone in any workplace can sue. Or agree to sign once said section is removed or just scrap the bill and restart with just the basic case bailout to start with and nothing else and say you'll sign just that.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Then either play dirty back and put a clause in they you can't sue for catching Covid but can sue for endangerment by failing to put in protections, precautions and procedures to keep workers safe. That will put the win up the republicans if suddenly it goes from anyone getting it can sue to anyone in any workplace can sue. Or agree to sign once said section is removed or just scrap the bill and restart with just the basic case bailout to start with and nothing else and say you'll sign just that.
Well that protectionism is central to the republicans because they're ghouls, so I don't think they'll back down on it.
 

Kae

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wouldn't that also be speculation over how things would work when they didn't in reality?
Except it's based on analysis of existing Socialist Anarchist societies, the information could be more thorough but it's in Capitalism's best interest that it isn't proven that it works, therefore thy obfuscate what little information is about it and destroy the societies that do exist, if there was an earnest chance to let us gather the data for long-term consequences your argument would hold water, but it's precisely the fear Capitalists have of these economic structures like Socialism & Anarchism that means we need to do it, again the time for experimentation has passed when Capitalism is bringing about the destruction of the Earth, if they fuck up the environment beyond repair there won't be enough food to go around, a thing that there is right now, we could literally feed the entire population of the world and still have food to spare but Capitalists prefer to let people die and even kill the world rather than use those resources to help the people.

I mean the what was it 3 dead from Chaz patrol really does inspire confidence there in a non structured community police force. That's not to mention the other incidents that happened.
Yet more ignorance and idiocy, if you are incapable of critical thinking I'm afraid I'm going to have to be done with this argument, because you prefer to use for an example something that happened in a capitalist state without policing that was only without policing for a month or a few months than actually look up the example of an Anarcho-Socialist state that has governed itself for 15 years so far rather successfully, your argument is intelectually bankrupt, if you were criticising EZLN I'd bother or any other actually Anarchist communities like El Consejo Indijena Popular de Oaxaca (33 years) or the Zone à Défendre (11 Years), or any other existing anarchist community that would be fair, but you're acting as if Anarchy is such a new idea it has only existed for like a year, absolutely pathetic, because none of these communities are perfect.
Yes, two of those are México because that's what I'm more familiar with.

2) No far easier to make an economic argument for why a lot of economic migration hurts everyone in the world at present. Than to argue and persuade everyone to abandon capitalism.
That's precisely why we should argue to abandon Capitalism, we need to convince the rest of the people, because it's bad for everyone including the stupid rich ghouls on top that are destroying the world with their greed.

4) It is nepotism and corruption but that will only get you so far and let you hold on so long if you're not making the money or costing the company money.
A common misconception of Capitalism, you don't need to be competent to succeed you just need to be predatory and have enough money to toss at ads, just look at the Apple of today they make shit products that are literally designed to fail, yet they are still successful, the truth of the matter is that you don't need to be all that competent if you have enough money, at least not under Capitalism, that's just a fantasy that you've been fed.

5) The question is who will be able to prove otherwise? Who knows maybe this highly expensive set of tools from the local factory was just my private set I happened to have anyway........
Yet another asinine argument, the purpose of communal ownership of the means of production means that you could file a request and if deemed appropriate you could be allowed to use those means for what you want without needing to steal it, if it is stolen though, it should be fairly easy to determine that it was, we wouldn't magically have less technology, if so the tools would simply be re-appropriated, violence would be avoided of course unless you as the thief are deliberately being violent.

Anyways, you waste my time, your arguments are shallow and surface level, the Anarchic system isn't perfect and there are many things you could be criticising, there are also many different currents of Anarchy, I'm just explaining Socialist Anarchy in particular, but none of your arguments seem to even be aware of what I'm talking about, I mean at the very least read Marx so that you have a surface level idea of what you're even talking about, in the meantime I'm done with this conversation.
 
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Agema

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1) No-one knows the actual results yet vote counts aren't likely getting out.

...3) As I pointed out before in some areas it was claimed Hillary was 20+ points ahead.
And as was discussed at the time, believing that meant much is merely the product of statistical illiteracy.

You're in another thread talking up science, right now. Polls are a form of measurement that are effectively indistinguishable in principle from a great deal of scientific experimentation. It is irrational to think science is useful, and then condemn a system that is using directly equivalent methods as hopelessly unreliable.

4) the Narrative of the invariable win for Biden could just make people think they don't have to vote for him or bother anyway while enthusing Trump's base to vote in higher numbers.
And the counter to that is that the polarisation of the country and the reminder from Clinton's surprise defeat is likely to impress on voters the importance of getting out there and voting, so such complacency is likely to be relatively low.
 
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Buyetyen

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Edit: And the fact the CCP aborted my two siblings.

Also, I never said I voted for Trump or Biden.
My condolences. Your hatred for China is pretty obvious and I don't doubt you have personal reasons. My issue is that you seem to value spite more than getting shit done.
 

Silvanus

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This only demonstrates your ignorance about Anarchy, you clearly neither know what it actually is, how it works or the fact that plenty of Anarchic states have existed throughout history, and most have fallen due to intervention by filthy Neoliberal capitalists rather than a failure of the system
Of course, national defence is usually considered part of the role of the government. So failing to defend against outside interference could be said to be a failure of the system in itself.

Completely ignoring the fact that there is a structure to defend against crime based on civil patrols, that has been proven to work in the places where it has been used, I invite you to research the EZLN (Ejercito Zapatista de la Liberacion Nacional) to see how crime is handled under an Anarchic society.
The EZLN incorporates elements of anarchic theory but does not run an anarchic society. They would reject that description themselves.
 
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tippy2k2

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Meanwhile, on CNN

AND WE REPRESENT THEM! AND WE REPRESENT THEM! AND WE REPRESENT THEM! AND WE REPRESENT THEM! AND WE REPRESENT THEM! AND WE REPRESENT THEM!

They should be on the news 24/7 showing off all the poison pill bullshit Republicans have in their stimulus bill to show why they won't accept that bill but instead she sits there shrieking the same "and we represent them!!!" line like her programming needle got stuck on the record player that is her brain. I expect some VBNW Fangirl to act like she acted on CNN, not one of the most powerful democrats in America. This is just a clip of a 13 minute segment but all it is is her screeching about how the details are different and then so goes on and on about how the Republican one doesn't go far enough but doesn't actually go into any details except the most broad aspects. Fuck, I'm surprised she didn't accuse Wolf as being a Russian Troll because she attacks Wolf WAAAAAY more in that 13 minutes then any Republican...
 
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