Biden v. Trump Election Mega Thread
- Thread starter Shadyside
- Start date
- Status
USA
What I WISH the media would do is actually focus on what is in the two bills and the sticking point here because that is what seems to be overlooked more than anything else. Pelosi was obviously agitated in that clip and we didn't get any actual information from it. We really can't gloss over what the sticking points here are though because the primary issue here is that this is al the help that those struggling right now are going to receive until at least February at the earliest. The idea that we can pass this and more help will come is terribly false because once we give the GOP the money they want for the wealthy, they have no more incentive of giving those struggling another dime at all, so they won't.
We need to have this money take effect retroactively making up for the time this has been stalling in congress. We need money to help those who lost their healthcare along with their job to make sure they can regain access to their medications and treatments ( that was the Obamacare coverage that GOP was complaining about in Pelosi's bill) and we need to make sure the PPE, testing and tracing money actually gets spent on that this time and not have Trump just decide not to do it all again this time like he did last time. That Obamacare coverage they are talking abut here is for the people who just lost their insurance due to the pandemic losing access to their medications and medical treatments which will result in deaths here:
"Republicans don’t like the price tag and some of the policy areas. They took issue with what they described as Democrat demands to provide maximum health insurance subsidies to any new Obamacare enrollee as part of an agreement, one source said. "
"“When the President talks about wanting a bigger relief package, his proposal appears to mean that he wants more money at his discretion to grant or withhold, rather than agreeing on language prescribing how we honor our workers, crush the virus and put money in the pockets of workers,” Pelosi said. "
"Pelosi said the administration’s proposal lacks a strategic plan to contain the spread of the virus, and has inadequate funding for state and local governments as well as financial relief for American families.
Pelosi has called for a deal that reinstates the $600 per week supplemental unemployment benefit that ended in July and much more money for child care than what the administration is offering."
Democrats and Republicans dismiss Trump’s coronavirus stimulus offer, dimming hopes for a deal
Congress has failed to pass new aid for months as the coronavirus continues to spread across the country and economic recovery slows.
www.cnbc.com
It isn't like Pelosi hasn't already talked about this at all here, she was just obviously irritated in that particular interview. The interview however isn't representative of what has been said by either party, it is just one of those " gotcha clips" . It would be more helpful if we talked about what they are actually arguing about here right now instead.
Last edited:
It's not nasty to establish standards of liability. They have a section that saysentities won't be liable in a covid-19 related lawsuit unless they A) aren't following prescribed standards and guidance from the government, B) are practicing in a negligent way so as to cause exposure, and C) the person suing actually had health problems. That's it. It's not blanket protection from lawsuits. It's protection for those trying to do what's right.
The government " guidance " is inadequate if it is resulting in deaths and disability of workers.
Workers sue OSHA over conditions at meatpacking plant
Three meatpacking plant employees filed a lawsuit against the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) on Thursday, alleging the agency has left workers in danger.The lawsuit accus…
thehill.com
Meatpacking Workers Sue OSHA Over Hazardous Working Conditions During COVID-19 Pandemic - FoodSafetyTech
Three Pennsylvania workers from Maid-Rite Specialty Foods have filed a lawsuit stating that OSHA did not facilitate a safe working environment.
foodsafetytech.com
No there was a huge ass manual left to the Trump administration by the Obama administration to tell them how to handle a pandemic. That would have been a good place to start.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...ok-for-trump-administration-officials-confirm
It is how you RESPOND to a pandemic is what matters here.
I've met too many people to have much respect left, I'm afraid.
There are guidelines that keep the death toll as low as possible, or minimise the risk. Epidemiologists had been warning that preparations needed to be made for a pandemic for years, which went unheeded by most governments, not just the US- though Trump's destruction of the pandemic response unit is especially ridiculous and short-sighted.
Still, some countries managed to pull together a good response on short notice, like New Zealand. The US isn't one of them.
Last edited:
He doesn't seem to understand that you can mitigate something you see coming a mile away. Of course people will still die during a plague, war, or natural disaster, but you can reduce the impact.
Or you know it's theories based on anarchists studying what they deem anarchist societies.
I mean we literally got to watch The Chaz collapse in on itself earlier this year and that was when it was already having lots of cash flowing in from outside to prop it up and it still fell.
Critical Thinking means being critical of your own premise and ideas not just being critical of everything else.
Critical thinking would mean I can criticise capitalism (I have done)
Critical thinking would also mean you can look at and see the failing of your anarchist theories and idea. Which you don't seem to be able to.
How many of those zones relied almost entirely on outside supplies and resources being maintain?
How many were able to actually operate on their own to an extent?
One takes a long time
The other works far quicker.
Ah but the original start Apple had to design their stuff and be competent to get enough money to begin with to push their BS now.
and the downside of that idea is people have specialist tool. People do better with certain tools they're used to. As an example different people prefer and get on better with different kind of lab safety specs. Also how would you know the tools were stolen? There's a flat structure right no managers to say what was and wasn't there it's reliant on other people who may also have acquired things so it's a pact of silence. You'd need to search to find the tool which what will community police be able to turn any-ones house upside down just on an accusation and no evidence or authority figure saying they have probable reason to search?
Who authorises the searches? Do the community police get to act fully independently and search whoevers place they wish when they want? Cause that seems easy to abuse.
What if I am aware and you just don't realise it yet?
You mean this manual: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6819268/Pandemic-Playbook.pdf
Would you care to detail what aspect of that was ignored? If you care to skip to the declarations and mitigations section and notice, "hey! this all looks very familiar." Like, the manual you refer to isn't particularly huge, and was pretty much followed comprehensively and then some. And some of the things, like "support the country of outbreak in mitigating the spread" are things you've actively condemned Trump for doing.
It's. Wild.
Why though?
It's fairly common for people to vote for a party or personality, with zero clue what issues they're pushing that election.
Does it piss you off to acknowledge that?
I think this might be one of those channer attempts at a joke. You can tell because there's no punchline.
Did you actually read this? What about canceling of public gatherings? Widespread use of PPE? Trump was still doing Rally's when he should have been doing this. You cannot have widespread use of PPE if he doesn't use the defense production act to supply it. His order to keep meat packing plants open without actually providing them the ability to keep the workers safe caused those workers to die.
That manual also describes what should have happened in December, January and February that never happened at all. Where is the consistent Fema response for all states effected right now? HHS response? CDC and HHS was supposed to take the lead here, but where stifled under Trump and his goons. Where is the state funding it says is needed that Trump didn't want to give because he wants to punish democrats? Trump is screaming "blue state bailouts" but reality shows us that red states receive more help than the blue states do. According to this manual the Feds are supposed to provide that support to the states, so WHERE IS IT?!
You call that following it comprehensively?!! Are you reading the same book?
Yes, from people who happily pushed it as some great evidence of an inevitable win for Hillary lol
No Polls tend to come under social science and it's easy to bias them if you know what you're doing or just do them incompetently.
The Polls for Trump vs Hillary weren't even in the margin for error allowing for a Trump win last time.
Other notable polls that didn't come true:
Johnson will only get a small majority government at best.
Remain will win the Brexit vote
Polls are trying to deal with the most unpredictable thing humanity and account for them giving the answer they believe they should vs what they really will pick.
Coffee anyone?
From what I've heard about Sky News Australia has been saying polls they have suggest a landslide for Trump. It probably won't be that but different organisation have vastly different results so going "Well the polling shows Biden winning" well it entirely depends on the Poll and the agency it's from these days. If it's a CNN conducted one I'd expect far different results to a Fox News conducted one because if people hear the name of the state even that could influence who they pick for that poll.
This is why I brought up Ken Bone. Yes it may be an anecdotal example but the guy was slammed in the media a fair bit but still voted Hillary in the end but is voting independent this year. How many other people in this thread and on this forum have you seen disillusioned with the Democrats and Biden at present? I've seen at least two. That's why I'm suggesting the polls aren't that great a source of info. I mean I seem to remember the polls saying it would be impossible for Trump to win the republican party nomination for the 2016 election and it would probably be Ted Cruz.
But most of that was reliant on fear. Yes Clinton's loss will spur some on. But the apocalyptic rhetoric of what Trump will do in 2016 hasn't proved anywhere near true yet in 2020. Hell at this stage Trump could just give a silly token gesture and cause massive waves. Body camera laws for police? Huge potential turn. Tiny bit of ground so lets say ambulance trips to hospital for recurring conditions or serious life threatening ones are free? Huge waves.
Trump literally has the advantage now over 2016 because they really have no major dirt to throw at him left and much of the dirt before hasn't stuck for anyone who wasn't already opposing Trump. Worse for some who looked into the claims over time that dirt might have fallen off as some of it (Throwing a childs hat, Kids in cages being a uniquely Trump thing, The Koi Karp incident) Hell Trump survived an impeachment attempt that just ended up looking like a bitter circus show andit's been claimed their plan is to try another impeachment but they don't really have much else new to work with so it's actually helping Trump.
Even the recent Pelosi thing with her having a go at CNN might cause a shift.
No people care about policy too but you have to present it in a digestible way that respects their time. Not go "Oh you want to know my policies? Here's my 20 policies each is outlined in it's own 200 page document for you to read. What you don't want to read them? Well here's a 5 second clip of my opponent saying something offensive or embarrassing with no context, that's more your level right?"
Or in another way
Technically it wasn't a Pandemic until late February.
It was a "Public health emergency" according to the WHO from I think it was January 12th but specifically NOT a pandemic.
The pandemic Playbook started out about what to do at the first reports of a " strange flu" that China put out in December. There are preemptive actions that should have been taken in addition to the actions as it's status changed that didn't happen at all making it much worse overall. Those were the actions that the pandemic response team were supposed to take and work with other agencies to ensure the US was prepared from the point in time a Novel Virus was discovered as it's status was elevated. None of that happened because Trump had disbanded the original dedicated pandemic response team.
- Status