Biden v. Trump Election Mega Thread

[lil devils x]

Again it could depend on a lot of factor there.

Changing patterns could just mean obviously people avoiding certain areas. Like say certain areas near certain wet markets etc which could well look pretty obvious given activity in said areas from footage etc shown.

How the hell do you translate this :
"Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event," one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. "It was then briefed multiple times to" the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House. "

Into one person being sick? Chances are much higher it meant moving in medical teams and government agencies to try and combat the outbreak while also controlling movement in that area? The early physician drawing attention to this had patients dying before he died of it later. They tried to play down his reports, but too many started piling up to do that.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

How the hell do you translate into :
"Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event," one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. "It was then briefed multiple times to" the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House. "

Into one person being sick? Chances are much higher it meant moving in medical teams and government agencies to try and combat the outbreak while also controlling movement in that area? The early physician drawing attention to this had patients dying before he died or it later. They tried to play down his reports but too many started piling up to do that.

A giant sink hole is cataclysmic to those in the area of it.

It could be a number of things they think could have happened again.

 

[lil devils x]

A giant sink hole is cataclysmic to those in the area of it.

It could be a number of things they think could have happened again.

US intelligence was not talking about just in that area. The cataclysmic event was to the world.. They were addressing the possible impact to the US as well due to how quickly this was spreading and the fact that people have been traveling from the region to all over the world at that time. I have no idea why you think this translates like that. We are talking about the National Center for MEDICAL INTELLIGENCE here, who are physicians and scientists here and know what they are talking about. These guys don't talk about sink holes at all. This is their specialty here. Who did you think they would have here to analyze the data they were seeing? You are being silly thinking that Gomer was analyzing the data or something LOL.

 

[Iron]

US intelligence was not talking about just in that area. The cataclysmic event was to the world.. They were addressing the possible impact to the US as well due to how quickly this was spreading and the fact that people have been traveling from the region to all over the world at that time. I have no idea why you think this translates like that. We are talking about the National Center for MEDICAL INTELLIGENCE here, who are physicians and scientists here and know what they are talking about. These guys don't talk about sink holes at all. This is their specialty here. Who did you think they would have here to analyze the data they were seeing? You are being silly thinking that Gomer was analyzing the data or something LOL.

The US was OVER-REACTING to the Wuhan Virus in February 3rd, China said.

China's Foreign Ministry has just accused the US of overreacting to the virus outbreak

A spokeswoman for China's Foreign Ministry castigated the United States for its response to the coronavirus outbreak, accusing Washington of responding inappropriately and feeding mass hysteria.

edition.cnn.com

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

US intelligence was not talking about just in that area. The cataclysmic event was to the world.. They were addressing the possible impact to the US as well due to how quickly this was spreading and the fact that people have been traveling from the region to all over the world at that time. I have no idea why you think this translates like that. We are talking about the National Center for MEDICAL INTELLIGENCE here, who are physicians and scientists here and know what they are talking about. These guys don't talk about sink holes at all. This is their specialty here. Who did you think they would have here to analyze the data they were seeing? You are being silly thinking that Gomer was analyzing the data or something LOL.

and yet Trump suggesting Travel restrictions etc as was pointed out in this thread was deemed an alarmist over-reaction etc.

 

[Iron]

If you read your own article you'll note that they specifically criticized the US withdrawal of embassy staff from Wuhan and the entry ban for people who had been to mainland China in the past 2 weeks and Chinese citizens in general. That's all the "over reaction" and is perfectly in line with WHO recommendations. That was basically all the US did too, since it didn't bother to alert FEMA, start stockpiling PPEs and ventilators or even start informing citizens how to most easily prevent spread of the virus (when you can't even put up a poster that says "wash your hands and don't sneeze into other people's mouths" you're degree of failure is something else).

*if you read your own article* that's a bad way of starting a post
Read this down here, the Indians are better at this than me.

China did that, and kept dozens of cities under lockdown, tens of millions of people, while it kept international flights operating.
It closed internal flights, while it kept international flights open.

Business News Today: Read Latest Business news, India Business News Live, Share Market & Economy News | The Economic Times

Business news today: Read India Business news Live. Latest Business news and updates on Finance, share market, IPO, economy. Discover Business News Headlines, Top Financial News and more on The Economic Times.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

China's Foreign Ministry has just accused the US of overreacting to the virus outbreak

A spokeswoman for China's Foreign Ministry castigated the United States for its response to the coronavirus outbreak, accusing Washington of responding inappropriately and feeding mass hysteria.

edition.cnn.com

A spokeswoman for China's Foreign Ministry said:
(bold and underline are my additions)
"
The US government hasn’t provided any substantial assistance to us, but it was the first to evacuate personnel from its consulate in Wuhan, the first to suggest partial withdrawal of its Embassy staff, and the first to impose a travel ban on Chinese travelers. All it has done could only create and spread fear, which is a bad example.

Even American media and experts doubted the government’s decision, saying that the US government’s restrictions on China are precisely what the WHO rejects, that the US is turning from overconfidence to fear and overreaction, and that banning the entry of foreigners who traveled to China in the past 14 days is suspected to be violating civil rights instead of reducing risks of virus spreading.
"
I can always trust the Indians not to scrub this since they aren't bought and paid shills by the CCP. I found this through an Indian news agency affiliated with bloomburg.
The rest is just a GOLDMINE and a nice time-travel tunnel to February 2020.

WHO board meeting February 3rd.

Report of the Director-General, 146th Meeting of the Executive Board

www.who.int

"
WHO has made several recommendations for all countries to prevent and limit the further spread of the virus.

First, there is no reason for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade.
...
"

Oh if you haven't seen what you're looking for then it's in the first link, apologies for not copying it here. Do a Ctrl+f for "travel".

Additionally the news-media was clogged with "Trump Racist" claims every since he did prelimenary travel restrictions in mid-January. CCP even accused Trump of racism. In the article it quotes the CCP foreign-office spokeswoman as also saying that Trump's actions were heavily criticized by the american news media.

 

[Generals]

If you read your own article you'll note that they specifically criticized the US withdrawal of embassy staff from Wuhan and the entry ban for people who had been to mainland China in the past 2 weeks and Chinese citizens in general. That's all the "over reaction" and is perfectly in line with WHO recommendations. That was basically all the US did too, since it didn't bother to alert FEMA, start stockpiling PPEs and ventilators or even start informing citizens how to most easily prevent spread of the virus (when you can't even put up a poster that says "wash your hands and don't sneeze into other people's mouths" you're degree of failure is something else).

To be fair: China lied ever since the pandemic started so their criticism can't be taken seriously. Especially since they have themselves imposed the harshest lockdowns and also pretty much stopped internal travel. (But exporting the desease overseas was ok I guess)
And as for the WHO... They said China did well and silenced Taiwan, which wanted to warn the world and managed the pandemic very well. So yeah no, I am not going to believe one word from the WHO on this pandemic. (Not to say I will disagree by principle, but i'll wait until other more impartial organisms make recommendations)

This said, I agree Trump just did the bare minimum and shouldn't be praised for that. Travel restrictions on China were politically easy and convenient for him as it played right into his anti China and foreigners propaganda and could be implemented quite quickly.

 

[Trunkage]

and yet Trump suggesting Travel restrictions etc as was pointed out in this thread was deemed an alarmist over-reaction etc.

Which country affected by COVID didn't put in restrictions? ALL? Wait, what... so Trump following everyone else? Most before Trump's travel ban?... and Trump's ban was more like a sieve because about 40K people from China has flown to America in the last 3 moths (July-Sept)? Wait. what happened to this narrative. It's gone all screwy

Yeah, you gonna have to cough up a huge cabal of people after Easter who was thinking his travel ban was an over-reaction. Because the whole world disagrees. Not just Trump

 

[Iron]

To be fair: China lied ever since the pandemic started so their criticism can't be taken seriously. Especially since they have themselves imposed the harshest lockdowns and also pretty much stopped internal travel. (But exporting the desease overseas was ok I guess)
And as for the WHO... They said China did well and silenced Taiwan, which wanted to warn the world and managed the pandemic very well. So yeah no, I ain't going to believe one word from the WHO on this pandemic. (Not to say I will disagree by principle, but i'll wait until other more impartial organisms make recommendations)

This said, I agree Trump just did the bare minimum and shouldn't be praised for that. Travel restrictions on China were politically easy and convenient for him as it played right into his anti China and foreigners propaganda and could be implemented quite quickly.

I'll play along with you for this. No arguments regarding CCP or WHO. Who else besides Japan, Taiwan and S. Korea had prepared stocks of PPE and medical equipment? At the height of the Italian death-rates Germany closed EU borders, stopped importation of medical supplies to Italy and Spain and refused to render aid.

Which country affected by COVID didn't put in restrictions? ALL? Wait, what... so Trump following everyone else? Most before Trump's travel ban?... and Trump's ban was more like a sieve because about 40K people from China has flown to America in the last 3 moths (July-Sept)? Wait. what happened to this narrative. It's gone all screwy

Yeah, you gonna have to cough up a huge cabal of people after Easter who was thinking his travel ban was an over-reaction. Because the whole world disagrees. Not just Trump

Trump didn't follow, he was the first (besides E. Asia).

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Which country affected by COVID didn't put in restrictions? ALL? Wait, what... so Trump following everyone else? Most before Trump's travel ban?... and Trump's ban was more like a sieve because about 40K people from China has flown to America in the last 3 moths (July-Sept)? Wait. what happened to this narrative. It's gone all screwy

Yeah, you gonna have to cough up a huge cabal of people after Easter who was thinking his travel ban was an over-reaction. Because the whole world disagrees. Not just Trump

So because it didn't go far enough the initial idea was bad to begin with?

It would have done a little. Sure it wouldn't have stopped it but as more countries had outbreaks the ban could have been extended but no they could be seen as racist and what was it the new York Mayor said everyone should do oh right "Go out to all the street parties and events it's perfectly safe" or some such BS.

 

[Silvanus]

No but Apple is seemingly falling out of favour.

I've not been a fan of it from the start but you hear much more criticism of it now and people turning from it.

I'm sure Tim Apple will be crying into his jewel-encrusted goblet.

Standards of proof.

A 30% response is considered enough to do a study with.

A 0.3 correlation is considered enough to deem something a significant finding worthy of note and further investigation though not conclusive proof.

So those polls could be based on just 30% who bothered to respond and ignore 70% of people who couldn't be bothered or just didn't get contacted etc.

A 30% sample size and .3 correlation would be worth reporting for a number of the physical sciences. In fact, that's pretty damn robust for a single study in a lot of physical-scientific fields.

Indeed a fundamental flaw of the Anarchist movement is that it's contempt for authoritarianism and violence leads to very weak military, which makes it rather vulnerable to invaders, it's part of the reason why we speak in terms of global Anarchy, because the truth is that if a applied on a national level it's relatively easy to destroy, it's part of the reason why I'm interested in the EZLN that does have a military force, which while not great, has been able to fend off the Mexican military in numerous occasions and been able to protect it's sovereignty, that being said, even if global Anarchy was achieved it's stands to reason that people wouldn't feel safe if there's not enough structural protection of possible insurgent movements, so while we try to get around this by recommending the people to be armed and be ready to form a militia I can understand if most people find this unsatisfactory and think of it as an inherent weakness of Anarchy.

Indeed, recommending the people be armed and be ready to form a militia would make me feel much less safe.

While it is true that Zapatistas & Neozapatistas don't like the term Anarchy and their philosophy is a bit different, their society applies too many elements of Anarchic theory for us not to recognise it, besides part of the reason why it doesn't share a name is because it's a theory that originated from uneducated farmers and as such the founders of it had no knowledge of Anarchic theory, yet they still arrived to enough of the same conclusions to be considered at least Anarchy adjacent.

A few elements, sure, but... I mean, those municipalities still have governments running services. That's kind of the most important divergence possible, no?

 

[Generals]

I'll play along with you for this. No arguments regarding CCP or WHO. Who else besides Japan, Taiwan and S. Korea had prepared stocks of PPE and medical equipment? At the height of the Italian death-rates Germany closed EU borders, stopped importation of medical supplies to Italy and Spain and refused to render aid.

One wrong doesn't make another one right...
But here's the thing: If Trump's travel ban on China was a sign of foresight and displayed an awareness of the severity of the pandemic why did he stop there? The US had more time to prepare than Europe as it was hit later.
Additionally Europe wasted equipment and masks due to aid sent to China (something that was kept quite because the CCP didn't want to appear weak to the public a favor they didn't return when they were the ones sending equipment and doctors to Italy). Somehow I doubt Trump sent anything or anyone to help China during their first wave.
And lastly, the general opinion in Europe on the pandemic was based on the fabricated data from China which made the pandemic look much weaker than it was. Trump had the European experience and data to properly assess just how bad it actually was.

So yes, he had more time and data and yet couldn't be bothered doing a better job than Europe. And the fact he uses his travel restrictions as an excuse to show just how quickly he took measures makes it worse. It means he fully understood how dangerous the pandemic was before Europe and yet couldn't be bothered to be better prepared despite being hit later. But we all know the travel restrictions weren't a sign of Trump wanting to put efforts and money into fighting against the pandemic, it was just an easy and politically convenient measure to take.

 

[Iron]

One wrong doesn't make another one right...
But here's the thing: If Trump's travel ban on China was a sign of foresight and displayed an awareness of the severity of the pandemic why did he stop there? The US had more time to prepare than Europe as it was hit later.
Additionally Europe wasted equipment and masks due to aid sent to China (something that was kept quite because the CCP didn't want to appear weak to the public a favor they didn't return when they were the ones sending equipment and doctors to Italy). Somehow I doubt Trump sent anything or anyone to help China during their first wave.
And lastly, the general opinion in Europe on the pandemic was based purely on the fabricated numbers from China which made the pandemic look much weaker than it was. Trump had the European experience and data to properly assess just how bad it actually was.

So yes, he had more time and data and yet couldn't be bothered doing a better job than Europe. And the fact he uses his travel restrictions as an excuse to show just how quickly he took measures makes it worse. It means he fully understood how dangerous the pandemic was before Europe and yet couldn't be bothered to be better prepared despite being hit later. But we all know the travel restrictions weren't a sign of Trump wanting to invest efforts and money into fighting against the pandemic, it was just an easy and politically convenient measure to take.

How long do you think it took from the pandemic demolishing the EU to the US getting hit with it?

Coronavirus Graphs: Worldwide Cases and Deaths - Worldometer

COVID-19 statistics, graphs, and data tables showing the total number of cases, cases per day, world map timeline, cases by country, death toll, charts and tables with number of deaths, recoveries and discharges, newly infected, active cases, outcome of closed cases: death rate vs. recovery...

www.worldometers.info

"Cumulative number of deaths Europe vs USA"

Canada also supplied medical aid to the CCP and kept it under wraps.

 

[Agema]

Standards of proof.

A 30% response is considered enough to do a study with.

A 0.3 correlation is considered enough to deem something a significant finding worthy of note and further investigation though not conclusive proof.

If you have familiarity with biomedical literature such as drug trials, you'd know that a ~30% response rate for scientific studies involving human volunteers is not unsual.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with correlation: you seem to be implying it's the same thing as response rate and it really isn't. How significant a correlation is would be analysed with statistics (e.g. Spearman's or Pearson's tests). A 0.3 correlation may or may not be significant according to sample size, variation, etc.

And I pointed out before in one area Clinton was 20+ points ahead......... are you trying to ignore that I did find the link in the end?

No, I'm saying the link you found is obviously not a reasonable way to draw conclusions on the whole nationwide race because that "one area" Clinton was 20 up in was a specific demographic unrepresentative of the country as a whole. As an anaology, the same logic you're employing here would claim that because Clinton was 80 points up on Trump with African Americans she was therefore guaranteed to win the election by a landslide.

 

[Silvanus]

How long do you think it took from the pandemic demolishing the EU to the US getting hit with it?

A more relevant question would be, "how quickly should a wealthy government be able to respond to a public health crisis?"

The government shouldn't wait for other continents to be "demolished" before they take action. Europe topped 1,000 cases in February; the US made federal funds available.... halfway through March, once the global tally had hit 90,000, accompanied by vague promises that widespread testing would "soon" become available (after it was already available in other countries).

 

[Iron]

A more relevant question would be, "how quickly should a wealthy government be able to respond to a public health crisis?"

The government shouldn't wait for other continents to be "demolished" before they take action. Europe topped 1,000 cases in February; the US made federal funds available.... halfway through March, once the global tally had hit 90,000, accompanied by vague promises that widespread testing would "soon" become available (after it was already available in other countries).

US is several orders of magnitude larger than an EU nation, and is comparable to the entire EU landmass and population. The disparity in prosperity between states would be akin to the differences between Germany and Romania, or Norway and Spain. Some of the richest states in the union in New England, New York and California are twice as wealthy than other states such as West Virginia and Alabama. The first response to this was done in the state-level. It is very difficult to have a good comparison between the two.

 

[Buyetyen]

US is several orders of magnitude larger than an EU nation, and is comparable to the entire EU landmass and population. The disparity in prosperity between states would be akin to the differences between Germany and Romania, or Norway and Spain. Some of the richest states in the union in New England, New York and California are twice as wealthy than other states such as West Virginia and Alabama. The first response to this was done in the state-level. It is very difficult to have a good comparison between the two.

I see the goalposts are moving south for the winter.

 

[Iron]

I see the goalposts are moving south for the winter.

quit harrassing me