Gaming Journalists Make No Damn Sense

[Iron]

Because Gillette is broke now? I guess they're only selling to me then, that's nice of 'm.

And yeah, that Charlie's Angels reboot does look terrible, but then it's hardly the first one, now is it.

My taste must be shit because I saw the last reboot two weeks ago and I liked it. I forgot Joey was in it and it was a pleasant surprise.
Nah, Gillette lost sales after the campaign. It was a noticeable drop too, which is why I said it convinced me.
I also remember that the disney trillogy dropped in sales with every new installment and that solo was a total flop.

 

[CriticalGaming]

You mean the new Star Wars trilogy didn't make a fuckton of money? And Ghostbusters would've been equally as bad if the actors were replaced by Jonah Hill, Danny McBride, Dave Franco, and Kevin James. Also, I can't be sure, but I don't think people were too psyched about Men in Black 3 either. That franchise was out of steam before the fourth movie. It's like blaming wokeness for Terminator: Dark Fate sucking and ruining the franchise, as if Genesys, the McG one, and Rise of the Machines never happened.

You didn't mention it, but I'm assuming this is about the ever misguided 'get woke, go broke' claim.
If it's a fight to the death and Mike Tyson already pulled a gun on you first, implying guns are fair game, then yes, you win that fight.

Hey screw you. Rise of the Machines was awesome!

 

[CriticalGaming]

My taste must be shit because I saw the last reboot two weeks ago and I liked it. I forgot Joey was in it and it was a pleasant surprise.
Nah, Gillette lost sales after the campaign. It was a noticeable drop too, which is why I said it convinced me.
I also remember that the disney trillogy dropped in sales with every new installment and that solo was a total flop.

Solo was the one with the feminist robot right?

 

[Iron]

Solo was the one with the feminist robot right?

I haven't actually watched that one, it was the first disney movie I boycotted.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Hey screw you. Rise of the Machines was awesome!

Yeah, remember how awesome it was when they recast John Conner, and how Sarah was killed off screen, and how the evil terminator was lame as shit, and how they brought back Dr. Silverman for a cringey gag, and the humor in general being diarrhea, and how Skynet happens anyway cuz fuck the second movie I guess. Yeah no, an egg just happened to be on the Sulaco, a third movie is totally justified. Oh wait, wrong shitty third installment.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Yeah, remember how awesome it was when they recast John Conner, and how Sarah was killed off screen, and how the evil terminator was lame as shit, and how they brought back Dr. Silverman for a cringey gag, and the humor in general being diarrhea, and how Skynet happens anyway cuz fuck the second movie I guess. Yeah no, an egg just happened to be on the Sulaco, a third movie is totally justified. Oh wait, wrong shitty third installment.

To be fair i was like 15 when that one came out. I might have just enjoyed the boobie terminator

Dark Fate was far worse because at least Rise killed Sarah off screen believably. Fate fucking just mercs John right in front of you because the heroes of the future are women now. I dont mind moving to a female lead, but why bother making a point to disrespect the male heroes to somehow prop up your female versions?

Why not have Grace be the hero and have her lead the resistance of another country instead of making the future leader only be a "chosen one"?

Or Grace was the cyborg chick? I dont even remember. The cyborg girl was stupid. Why sent someone to the past who can only fight for a short time before needed a bunch of drugs that she might not be able to get in the past. Seems dumb as fuck to me. Could have juat as easily made her a full on Terminator, we've already seen female versions so its not that big of a deal.

I haven't actually watched that one, it was the first disney movie I boycotted.

Remember when Micky Mouse used to be Blackface? Disney has always been a very family friendly and wholesome company. And not at all Satan.

In all fairness to Disney though and the new trilogy. The movies being shit has nothing to do with Rey being a women and everything to do with the writing. Mary Sue characters are very rarely good and require a great cast and great story around them to make them really work. But that triology was all over the fucking place and it was clear that they were just making shit up on the fly.

Now the way they treated and elevated the female characters while making the male characters useless jokes shows a clear bias direction for the films imo. However solid writing could have still made that work.

Female characters and leads do not equal a bad film. But usually these films get made without any solid direction or real writing support because they only care about making the women stand out. That narrowminded focus is what i believe causes the "get woke go broke" title upon the media.

Because we know female driven media works. Tomb Raider is popular for a reason and it iant just Croft's tits. Aliens is one of the best horror films ever. Atomic Blonde was awesome. Alita Battle Angel was fucking amazing. The Resident Evil movies do insane numbers in Europe.

The stuff works. But those female driven films do not throw away the male cast. Despite the women being the hero and doing all the badass things, the stories never try to shit on the male cast.

That's how it works and the stories all always infinitely better when they arent trying to shit on an entire sex for the sake of empowerment.

 

[Trunkage]

I don't remember telling you that. Be offended at whatever you want. I wasn't offended by gillete. I gave gillette as an example for the "go woke go broke" meme.
Who do you think you're talking to right now.

The 'Go Woke, Go Broke' is just about people being offended. It's the whole point.

 

[Trunkage]

Never heard of them

Probably the only thing I seen that is deliberately post modern, it's the closest thing I got for you.

And by post modern, I mean that someone's gender doesnt determine someone's place in power structures, eg the army. And don't expect a tradtional Joseph Campbell story. I read them for years before finding out that it was meant to be post modern

 

[Iron]

The 'Go Woke, Go Broke' is just about people being offended. It's the whole point.

I see it as a backlash to pandering pushed in your face.

To be fair i was like 15 when that one came out. I might have just enjoyed the boobie terminator

Dark Fate was far worse because at least Rise killed Sarah off screen believably. Fate fucking just mercs John right in front of you because the heroes of the future are women now. I dont mind moving to a female lead, but why bother making a point to disrespect the male heroes to somehow prop up your female versions?

Why not have Grace be the hero and have her lead the resistance of another country instead of making the future leader only be a "chosen one"?

Or Grace was the cyborg chick? I dont even remember. The cyborg girl was stupid. Why sent someone to the past who can only fight for a short time before needed a bunch of drugs that she might not be able to get in the past. Seems dumb as fuck to me. Could have juat as easily made her a full on Terminator, we've already seen female versions so its not that big of a deal.



Remember when Micky Mouse used to be Blackface? Disney has always been a very family friendly and wholesome company. And not at all Satan.

In all fairness to Disney though and the new trilogy. The movies being shit has nothing to do with Rey being a women and everything to do with the writing. Mary Sue characters are very rarely good and require a great cast and great story around them to make them really work. But that triology was all over the fucking place and it was clear that they were just making shit up on the fly.

Now the way they treated and elevated the female characters while making the male characters useless jokes shows a clear bias direction for the films imo. However solid writing could have still made that work.

Female characters and leads do not equal a bad film. But usually these films get made without any solid direction or real writing support because they only care about making the women stand out. That narrowminded focus is what i believe causes the "get woke go broke" title upon the media.

Because we know female driven media works. Tomb Raider is popular for a reason and it iant just Croft's tits. Aliens is one of the best horror films ever. Atomic Blonde was awesome. Alita Battle Angel was fucking amazing. The Resident Evil movies do insane numbers in Europe.

The stuff works. But those female driven films do not throw away the male cast. Despite the women being the hero and doing all the badass things, the stories never try to shit on the male cast.

That's how it works and the stories all always infinitely better when they arent trying to shit on an entire sex for the sake of empowerment.

Alita was a treat.

 

[Iron]

Probably the only thing I seen that is deliberately post modern, it's the closest thing I got for you.

And by post modern, I mean that someone's gender doesnt determine someone's place in power structures, eg the army. And don't expect a tradtional Joseph Campbell story. I read them for years before finding out that it was meant to be post modern

>tfw Tanya is postmodern

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah, it's a possibility.

Another possibility is maybe they said something like "women and minorities respond better to mindless fetch-quests, backtracking, and decisions that don't matter, so lets put more of those in!"



One would think that indie "woke" games would be good then, right? Or at least not universally bad, right?
And if appealing to wokeness was so profitable for all these major publishers, then shouldn't indies also have a share in this pie?

So where are these games and how successful are they?

Gone Home?
Revolution 60?

It's an extremely low possibility.

Developers like putting in mindless fetch quests and backtracking because it makes their jobs easier. That's why games have had those elements since forever. One of the most popular things now is live-service games with heavy amounts of grinding because they make more money. Why does Rockstar make less games? Because all that easy money from GTA Online. Unless you're going to argue that GTA and Rockstar are somehow progressive.

Those are games in genres that are rather niche. If progressiveness is so unsuccessful, why is Overwatch so popular?

 

[Iron]

It's an extremely low possibility.

Developers like putting in mindless fetch quests and backtracking because it makes their jobs easier. That's why games have had those elements since forever. One of the most popular things now is live-service games with heavy amounts of grinding because they make more money. Why does Rockstar make less games? Because all that easy money from GTA Online. Unless you're going to argue that GTA and Rockstar are somehow progressive.

Those are games in genres that are rather niche. If progressiveness is so unsuccessful, why is Overwatch so popular?

How is OW progressive? They added most of that after the launch, had only 1 black character for two years. Made two characters gay retroactively. They tried to pander, and OW isn't popular at all rn, and haven't been for over a year.

 

[Dreiko]

Not really. Ellie has a rifle in TLOU, hence she uses one in TLOU2. That's gameplay and story integration. Similarly, Ellie is the distance and stealth character, whereas Abby is more focused on close range and direct violence. I generally find it a bit silly to ask, but at this point I feel I have to: Have you even played TLOU2? Or are you just criticizing it based on what Channer neckbeards afraid of diversity have written? Because if you have I shouldn't have to point out these surface level things about characterization.



Here we go again with you just making up an argument I've never made and which is in fact the total opposite of what I've written. Abby is musclebound, but there's also a lot of feminine coding to her (including the scene that broke a thousand neckbeard minds when she is the receiving part during sex with Owen). She might look butch, but apart from some emotional distance at the start she's predominantly feminine coded. In a reversal, it is conventionally attractive Ellie who actually has the masculine traits of being emotionally distant, bad at expressing her feelings or needs, quick to anger and act in rage and who is so focused on her revenge that she looses everything. Ellie is much more masculine coded then Abby is, despite Ellie being the physically more feminine character.

I mean, it is a cute tu quoque you are going for there, but it doesn't hold up with either what I think or what I wrote. Let me remind you that it was you who first pointed out that diversity in itself was not a good thing and I who suggested that diversity of all forms in fiction is good. So please.

There is not one rifle in the whole universe, chars can have two rifles. One can be a sniper rifle and the other a hunting rifle. You can give Abby a freaking rifle in a way that is more believable than the direction they went in, despite Ellie also having one.


And yeah I dunno what the issue was with the sex scene. I guess people were grossed out in a homophobic sense or something? Either way, that was not very feminine but certainly nothing to lose your shit over lol.


Ellie is a tomboy, her femininity is accentuated by her masculine tendencies. It's not like I ever said feminine chars can't have masculine traits too. The trick is in how the whole package comes off. When she's being angry or crass it's cute, not weird.


Finally, I said diversity is neutral, depending on how you go about it. There seems to be interest only in a specific form of it, which is the bad form, but other forms, are good.

 

[Houseman]

If progressiveness is so unsuccessful, why is Overwatch so popular?

Overwatch hides its "progressiveness", such as Tracer being in lesbians with someone else, in non-game content, like digital comics.
People who only just play the game never see that stuff, because it's not in the game.

Also, what Iron said.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

How is OW progressive? They added most of that after the launch, had only 1 black character for two years. Made two characters gay retroactively. They tried to pander, and OW isn't popular at all rn, and haven't been for over a year.

The roster is rather diverse. There's quite a decent amount of non-white characters regardless of how many black characters there are. How is Overwatch not popular when it has over 10 million active users? Just selling 10 million copies is hugely popular. Overwatch is still pretty high on the twitch stream list. To say Overwatch is not popular is just asinine. It is also 4 years old.

Overwatch hides its "progressiveness", such as Tracer being in lesbians with someone else, in non-game content, like digital comics.
People who only just play the game never see that stuff, because it's not in the game.

Also, what Iron said.

It's a multiplayer game, there's no story mode or campaign or whatever, all story stuff will be on the side.

So when games with progressiveness do well, it's cuz they hide it? And when games do bad, it's because of non-hidden progressiveness? Marvel's Avengers sold well for having a diverse main character (not hidden in non-game content) and also being a rather shit game.

 

[Iron]

The roster is rather diverse. There's quite a decent amount of non-white characters regardless of how many black characters there are. How is Overwatch not popular when it has over 10 million active users? Just selling 10 million copies is hugely popular. Overwatch is still pretty high on the twitch stream list. To say Overwatch is not popular is just asinine. It is also 4 years old.


It's a multiplayer game, there's no story mode or campaign or whatever, all story stuff will be on the side.

So when games with progressiveness do well, it's cuz they hide it? And when games do bad, it's because of non-hidden progressiveness? Marvel's Avengers sold well for having a diverse main character (not hidden in non-game content) and also being a rather shit game.

asinine?
Nah man I've been on the OW train since season 3 and the community shrank considerably. Streamers on twitch moved on, youtubers moved on to Valorant and other things, pro-scene is dead, matches take forever to go in, no more updates in preparation for OW 2... nope. To say OW is popular is asinine. BOOM. I just debunked you.

And regarding the diversity of characters? When the game launched there were 22 heroes. About 2/3 were white.

 

[Houseman]

It's a multiplayer game, there's no story mode or campaign or whatever, all story stuff will be on the side.

And that's why.

Also, you seem to think that a game is "progressive" just because it has a woman or minority protagonist or protagonists. I would disagree. Tomb Raider and Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball aren't necessarily progressive games just because they star women. 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand isn't progressive just because it stars a black man.

So when games with progressiveness do well, it's cuz they hide it?

Yes, that seems to be the case.

And when games do bad, it's because of non-hidden progressiveness?

Not necessarily.

Like I said before: Where "political" is shorthand for "progressive, radical-feminist politics":
- Sometimes non-political games fail
- Sometimes non-political games succeed
- But do political games ever succeed?

 

[Trunkage]

The Disney Star-Wars trilogy, and especially the Solo movie, proved to be a total flop. Ghost Busters was so bad they're making a new one with kids just to pretend it didn't exist. New Men in Black was a flop. I'm only bringing up stuff I watched, which was mostly a remake of older stuff which I watched.

Just going to put it out there. Solo was a deliberate attempt to reserve the 'Go Woke, Go Broke' thing. It was the least progressive thing Disney put out in a long time. Did it work? Nope

But thanks for showing us how Cherry Picking works. Because things like Black Panther, Spiderverse, Captain Marvel and Endgame were all very woke. And didnt make them go broke

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Solo was the one with the feminist robot right?

Yeah, the feminist robot that gets cut in half with a laser cannon halfway through the movie

I haven't actually watched that one, it was the first disney movie I boycotted.

It's the only one you would like: the white dude wins due to his plucky charm and being good at two things, the female love interests end up dead or evil, and the cheating black man loses everything.

 

[Iron]

Just going to put it out there. Solo was a deliberate attempt to reserve the 'Go Woke, Go Broke' thing. It was the least progressive thing Disney put out in a long time. Did it work? Nope

But thanks for showing us how Cherry Picking works. Because things like Black Panther, Spiderverse, Captain Marvel and Endgame were all very woke. And didnt make them go broke

I didn't watch Solo so ok, idk. You don't need to shove successful stuff in my face and tell me this is wrong, though. You can shove this stuff a lot, sometimes even under the radar (Korra ending, cut kiss). This doesn't invalidate the phrase, nor the backlash these brands get when they go too far. This is what it's about in the end. They went too far, shoved it in our faces, and got hit in the wallet. No amount of telling me "lol cherry picking" would change that Gillette go screwed after it went woke.
Jordan was right. Republicans buy sneakers. This is a natural response, nothing sinister to it - you push too hard, you go broke.

Yeah, the feminist robot that gets cut in half with a laser cannon halfway through the movie

It's the only one you would like: the white dude wins due to his plucky charm and being good at two things, the female love interests end up dead or evil, and the cheating black man loses everything.

Why would I like it, because I'm white? I stopped watching Disney when I realized they monopolized entertainment and I was going down from my endgame high. Again who do you think you're talking to smh.