Gaming Journalists Make No Damn Sense

[Houseman]

Because in the vast majority of games (not to mention movies) it's still white, straight men as the protagonists. Something the non-white, non-straight non-male community has pretty much tolerated without too much if any vocalization, because why would anyone listen to them, right? But now that a small percentage of games and movies dare to veer away from white, straight male protagonists a certain segment is utterly losing their shit and getting super racist, sexist and homophobic about it. Almost like that's what they always were, but never had to reveal since the odds were always (and still really are) in their favour.

So there's your contradiction; decades of the LGBTQ community not uttering a word over the lack of (positive) represention in media, a slight shift, a small step at maybe a course correction, and certain people turn into rabid baboons.

I don't see how that explains the contradiction.

There are, and always have been, games with women protagonists that aren't complained about.
There are, and always have been, games with minority protagonists that aren't complained about.
I've cited several examples of both in this topic.

What I'm asking you is why aren't these games complained about? Why are only SOME games complained about?
This is the contradiction you have to explain.

I'll make it easier for you. Just explain why there was no outrage over The Ballad of Gay Tony, which starred both a black protagonist, and "Gay Tony"?
According to you there SHOULD have been outrage over this. Why wasn't there any?

 

[Casual Shinji]

I don't think Black Panther was a "Woke" film. The Media just hyped it up because it featured a predominarily black cast. There were some annoyances round that because again it wasn't the first black led super hero film, and hell Tyler Perry films are also all black movies so it isn't even a special movie in that regard.

Well, name me one that isn't Blade and that actually has a budget. Nobody was acting like there are no movies featuring, or starring black people, but Black Panther was the first big budget movie starring primarily black people since... yeah, exactly.

Turns out comic book nerds have no interest in poorly written pandering.

Yeah, I think you just walked right into that one.

Products that go for a progressive narrative can't keep thinking that they'll automatically succeed because they're progressive. They also have to have the effort of a well written, well thought out characters, and story. Because you can't keep blaming it on everyone being sexist and racist for why your shit isn't successful.

Yet most of the badly written, badly acted shlock without a "progressive" narrative that fails comes under little to no scorn from a certain demographic. But if a movie or game chooses to go for a progressive narrative, or simply have a gay protagonist, it had better be 100% top tier quality otherwise it's the fault of that agenda pushin'. It's the same dumb argument of 'there needs to be a reason for them to female/gay/black/trans'. They can't just be, and they can't just sometimes not be quality products. They have to be perfect otherwise it's undeniable proof that progressivism has no place in media.

Also weird how the superior Alita did shit at the box office though compared to Captain Marvel starring the apparent Queen Man Hater.

Oh, and just to throw it out there again, Ripley from Alien, you know, one of the most iconic characters in movie history, is the product of feminist pandering. Being gender swapped solely to appeal to the growing feminist movement at the time. Can you imagine the reaction that would get online if this happened to a movie today? Oh wait, I don't have to.

 

[Iron]

Well, name me one that isn't Blade and that actually has a budget. Nobody was acting like there are no movies featuring, or starring black people, but Black Panther was the first big budget movie starring primarily black people since... yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I think you just walked right into that one.
Yet most of the badly written, badly acted shlock without a "progressive" narrative that fails comes under little to no scorn from a certain demographic. But if a movie or game chooses to go for a progressive narrative, or simply have a gay protagonist, it had better be 100% top tier quality otherwise it's the fault of that agenda pushin'. It's the same dumb argument of 'there needs to be a reason for them to female/gay/black/trans'. They can't just be, and they can't just sometimes not be quality products. They have to be perfect otherwise it's undeniable proof that progressivism has no place in media.

Also weird how the superior Alita did shit at the box office though compared to Captain Marvel starring the apparent Queen Man Hater.

Oh, and just to throw it out there again, Ripley from Alien, you know, one of the most iconic characters in movie history, is the product of feminist pandering. Being gender swapped solely to appeal to the growing feminist movement at the time. Can you imagine the reaction that would get online if this happened to a movie today? Oh wait, I don't have to.

The alt-right ethos souring the cult of Alita: Battle Angel

James Cameron’s passed-over film about a cyborg girl has built an #AlitaArmy of fervent fans, but is it championing the worst or the best of the internet in action?

www.independent.co.uk

Alita got slammed with bad press.

Ripley wasn't written as a man or a woman in the original script. You're talking nonsense.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Well, name me one that isn't Blade and that actually has a budget. Nobody was acting like there are no movies featuring, or starring black people, but Black Panther was the first big budget movie starring primarily black people since... yeah, exactly.

Define budget? Because in the modern era of 200 million dollar films, past films wont have much budget by comparison.

Spawn? How about the Friday movies? Black Knight? Shaft? Training Day? I mean budget's are relative to their time period.

Also weird how the superior Alita did shit at the box office though compared to Captain Marvel starring the apparent Queen Man Hater.

Well the power of Marvel branding helped. Though Alita and Captain Marvel did comparability the same in the domestic box office. But Marvel blew up internationally (china) to gross 1 billion, where alita only reached 470 million total. Also the budgets for those films were vastly different in both production and marketing so it is what it is.

 

[Houseman]

Yet most of the badly written, badly acted shlock without a "progressive" narrative that fails comes under little to no scorn from a certain demographic. But if a movie or game chooses to go for a progressive narrative, or simply have a gay protagonist, it had better be 100% top tier quality otherwise it's the fault of that agenda pushin'. It's the same dumb argument of 'there needs to be a reason for them to female/gay/black/trans'. They can't just be, and they can't just sometimes not be quality products. They have to be perfect otherwise it's undeniable proof that progressivism has no place in media.

The Ballad of Gay Tony.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'll make it easier for you. Just explain why there was no outrage over The Ballad of Gay Tony, which starred both a black protagonist, and "Gay Tony"?
According to you there SHOULD have been outrage over this. Why wasn't there any?

Probably because people weren't as stupid back then. Or I should say they didn't feel as attacked back then. This only started to get idiots riled up once Anita Sarkeesian and other outlets started really calling certain things out. That's when certain people started getting really pissed off and showing their true colors.

Also, you didn't exactly play as Gay Tony, and from what I remember he was the picture of the typical looking and acting gay man, and within the confines of a support character this is generally seen as "non-threatening". Give me an example of an actual playable gay man that's in a romantic relationship with another gay man, kiss scene and everything, without the usual suspects losing their shit, and then we'll talk again. And an action game, please.

 

[Iron]

Define budget? Because in the modern era of 200 million dollar films, past films wont have much budget by comparison.

Spawn? How about the Friday movies? Black Knight? Shaft? Training Day? I mean budget's are relative to their time period.


Well the power of Marvel branding helped. Though Alita and Captain Marvel did comparability the same in the domestic box office. But Marvel blew up internationally (china) to gross 1 billion, where alita only reached 470 million total. Also the budgets for those films were vastly different in both production and marketing so it is what it is.

AHHHH Friday. RIP John Witherspoon.

 

[Iron]

Give me an example of an actual playable gay man that's in a romantic relationship with another gay man, kiss scene and everything, without the usual suspects losing their shit, and then we'll talk again. And an action game, please.

would you like fries with that? A diet coke?

 

[Houseman]

Probably because people weren't as stupid back then. Or I should say they didn't feel as attacked back then. This only started to get idiots riled up once Anita Sarkeesian and other outlets started really calling certain things out. That's when certain people started getting really pissed off and showing their true colors.

Okay, so all women and minorities before 2013/2014 get a free pass. Let's see if I can find more recent examples of women or minorities after 2014 that aren't "attacked"

Well, there's a new Spider-Man: Miles Morales coming out soon, but I guess people have had a chance to get used to him for years now. I think there was more outrage about making MJ mixed and a feminist in the Tom Holland movies, than there was over Miles Morales.

There's Alyx Vance, who is mixed and a woman, and the only protagonist of Half Life: Alyx. The only outrage there was that the game was VR only.
Mafia III was released in 2016 and has a black protagonist.

Give me an example of an actual playable gay man that's in a romantic relationship with another gay man, kiss scene and everything, without the usual suspects losing their shit, and then we'll talk again. And an action game, please.

I don't think there are any.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Define budget? Because in the modern era of 200 million dollar films, past films wont have much budget by comparison.

Spawn? How about the Friday movies? Black Knight? Shaft? Training Day? I mean budget's are relative to their time period.

Did Friday have the same budget as Jurassic Park? Did Training Day have the same budget as Lord of the Rings or Spider-Man? No? Then there ya go. Also, Training Day had a white protagonist, the black guy was the villain, so...

Black Panther did get a budget that was similar in size to contemporary blockbusters.

Well the power of Marvel branding helped. Though Alita and Captain Marvel did comparability the same in the domestic box office. But Marvel blew up internationally (china) to gross 1 billion, where alita only reached 470 million total. Also the budgets for those films were vastly different in both production and marketing so it is what it is.

Then are you saying that with a powerful brand and a big marketing push it doesn't matter how "woke" a movie is? Because Captain Marvel was getting heavily branded as woke trash by the usual crowd, who claimed it would fail disastrously. And it didn't, like, at all.

would you like fries with that? A diet coke?

Weird how asking for that is too much, isn't it? Almost like there's a very clear bias.

 

[Iron]

Did Friday have the same budget as Jurassic Park? Did Training Day have the same budget as Lord of the Rings or Spider-Man? No? Then there ya go. Also, Training Day had a white protagonist, the black guy was the villain, so...

Black Panther did get a budget that was similar in size to contemporary blockbusters.
Then are you saying that with a powerful brand and a big marketing push it doesn't matter how "woke" a movie is? Because Captain Marvel was getting heavily branded as woke trash by the usual crowd, who claimed it would fail disastrously. And it didn't, like, at all.
Weird how asking for that is too much, isn't it? Almost like there's a very clear bias.

You asked for a very specific thing right there. You're moving the goal-post

 

[CriticalGaming]

Did Friday have the same budget as Jurassic Park? Did Training Day have the same budget as Lord of the Rings or Spider-Man?

I don't really think you can compare budgets though. There is an incredibly vast difference in the scoop of those films. Of course their budgets wont be comparible.

Then are you saying that with a powerful brand and a big marketing push it doesn't matter how "woke" a movie is?

To be fair Marvel didn't do nearly as well as it should have domestically. So the wokeness did hurt it. A lot of Marvel's woke issues came afterwards when Brie Larson started acting like she was the hot shit to ever shit on planet earth.

And I never said that "woke" progressive films couldn't work. But let's not pretend that they usually don't. Again if you put good writers together, and build a foundation around whatever progressive ideal you are aiming for, the woke stuff can still work.

It's the haphazard wokeness that people shit on.

Just put a bit of effort into it and you can be an woke as you want. But just don't blame and call people racist because they didn't like your trash ass movie.

 

[Casual Shinji]

You asked for a very specific thing right there. You're moving the goal-post

No, I'm clarifying the goal post.

I don't really think you can compare budgets though. There is an incredibly vast difference in the scoop of those films. Of course their budgets wont be comparible.

Well, you gave me those movies as an example for why Black Panter isn't special. So that's why I made the comparison to show why it actually was.

To be fair Marvel didn't do nearly as well as it should have domestically. So the wokeness did hurt it. A lot of Marvel's woke issues came afterwards when Brie Larson started acting like she was the hot shit to ever shit on planet earth.

It did better domestically than Winter Soldier and Civil War by the looks of it. I'd call that a big, fat win.

And I never said that "woke" progressive films couldn't work. But let's not pretend that they usually don't. Again if you put good writers together, and build a foundation around whatever progressive ideal you are aiming for, the woke stuff can still work.

Can I get examples of those that usually don't? Because Ghostbusters was doomed to fail even before the womenz were involved, and Terminator had three movies worth of trash under its belt before Dark Fate. Meanwhile, the Star Wars movies did a-okay.

It's the haphazard wokeness that people shit on.

Just put a bit of effort into it and you can be an woke as you want. But just don't blame and call people racist because they didn't like your trash ass movie.

Haphazard wokeness like what; a kiss between two women? That Last of Us 2 trailer sure was shoving that wokeness down our throat by just a kiss, wasn't it? The outrage that sparked was just people not liking kissing in general, I guess.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

You admitted that progressiveness alienates the audience.
If you are alienated, that also means you dislike it, which makes it "worse", subjectively.
Therefore, progressiveness makes games worse.

If you had a game where you play as the KKK and lynch black people, it could have the same gameplay as RDR2, but you would probably still dislike it, wouldn't you? You would think that it's a 'worse' game than RDR2 wouldn't you?

Likewise, when people see radical feminism in games, they are alienated, and therefore, dislike the game. The game is "worse".

I said that radical [whatever] alienates the audience. What game has radical [whatever] that alienate audiences? The [whatever] can be whatever from progressiveness to anything. You literally just said that "when people see radical feminism in games, they are alienated, and therefore, dislike the game. The game is 'worse'." You've yet to mention any game that has radical feminism in it. Nor can you even show a trend for minor "feminism" (as I wouldn't even call your examples pushing feminism) causing games to be less successful. You cite a woman with a prosthetic arm in a trailer for a game (hardly a radical turn that you can play as, god forbid, a woman in a game). You cite some scene from Uncharted 4 that wouldn't be anything of note in an action movie decades old and said game being the most successful in the franchise. You cite Mass Effect getting more progressive (aka "worse") over time when the 3rd of 4 games the series was the most successful.

The gameplay of RDR2 makes it a shit game already. I also wouldn't be interested in playing a game as the KKK either. But lynching people as a KKK member in a game isn't anywhere near close or as "radical" as playing a woman in a shooter. And wouldn't playing as a woman in a shooter cause the people that don't want women in their shooters to want to play it more so they can kill all the women and t-bag them? Like if you made a online shooter based on the movie Glory, wouldn't all the racist whites buy it and play on the confederate side so they could kill all the blacks?

All of your complaints are standard EssJayDubya bullshit that a) don't make any logical sense (game companies purposefully making less money), and b) have no data or facts to back them (even when you cherry pick examples yourself).

 

[Trunkage]

The projection is off the charts. Films are being removed and censored because of things like racism, for example how "Gone with the wind" was removed from all streaming platforms. For some reason people that don't like racism are insecure about racism so they have to remove films they think are racist.

Hey, bro. Did the ARTIST do this?

Or is this someone, later who are placing this standard onto the media?

Also, how is this different from the censorship ratings that countries already have?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Star Wars is a perfect example of this. If people hated on Rey, why didn't they hate on Adin Verso from Rogue one?

They *did* hate on Jyn Erso from Rogue One, then deleted their tweets after Rogue One turn out to be good. At least, grifters like Posobiec and Cernovitch did

Racist 'Alt-Right' Snowflakes Boycott Rogue One Because 2016

The so-called alt-right may soon have their Emperor in the White House, but before they got political to help force Donald Trump into the presidency, the...

www.huffingtonpost.ca

 

[Trunkage]

Brie Larson is sick of being interviewed by ‘white dudes’

The ‘Captain Marvel’ star is campaigning for more diversity in the press pool. Will it work?

www.irishtimes.com

Brie Larson: ‘I don’t need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work about A Wrinkle in Time’

You think we take insults and ask for more like masochists?

Guess what Iron. Brie Larson apologized for this years ago. She said she didn't intend to make people feel excluded.

But you know, let's not understand that people make mistakes

Clark Gregg though called you a dinosaur for acting like this. Where is his hated?

 

[Trunkage]

When will reactionaries realise that some movies are well written and well received while many, many many more movie are going to be average or poor and nobody likes them.

What doesn't determine this is genitalia, skin colour or who you like? Because that's stupid

 

[Iron]

Hey, bro. Did the ARTIST do this?

Or is this someone, later who are placing this standard onto the media?

Also, how is this different from the censorship ratings that countries already have?

Artist do what? I don't understand the standard later. Can you paraphrase?
Censorship ratings, unlike places like Australia, are not censorship ratings. They're supposed to advise people of the content of the media before the consume it and warn them. It's true places censor things (like sexual or gay stuff in Arab dub edition, for example). This is an example of people censoring art because they felt it was racist. 'my side' may dislike things, but they haven't censored stuff like Ghost Busters because it hurt their feelings. 'you side' did actually censor stuff because it hurt their feelings.

Guess what Iron. Brie Larson apologized for this years ago. She said she didn't intend to make people feel excluded.

But you know, let's not understand that people make mistakes

Clark Gregg though called you a dinosaur for acting like this. Where is his hated?

people make mistakes. They keep making mistakes with shoving this in my media, and I don't need to consume it. If more people with my opinions would agree to not feed the beast, then the second part of the expression "go broke" will happen on its own. who is Clark Gregg.

When will reactionaries realise that some movies are well written and well received while many, many many more movie are going to be average or poor and nobody likes them.

What doesn't determine this is genitalia, skin colour or who you like? Because that's stupid

Elizabeth Banks Says ‘Captain Marvel,’ ‘Wonder Woman’ Were Hits Because They Belong to ‘Male Genre’

The new Charlie's Angels couldn't even crack the $9 million mark at the box office over its opening weekend.

www.indiewire.com

You misunderstand. This kind of thinking is on the other side. I don't view the world in this kind of intersectional labels, I treat people the same way no matter who they are. I give respect as long as I receive it back. I don't take kindly to people blaming me for their failures because I didn't like their movie. You can go broke for all I care.

 

[Houseman]

You've yet to mention any game that has radical feminism in it.

I'd think that Nadine beating up Drake and Sam counts as radical feminism.

I'd also think that suddenly including women in Battlefield V also counts. You say "hardly a radical turn that you can play as, god forbid, a woman in a game", but that's obviously disingenuous. You can play as a woman in Tekken and nobody, not even me, is complaining about that or claiming that it's "radical feminism" that little Xaioyu can beat up Supernatural lazer-beam-head Devil Kazuya. Why not? Because that's consistent with the rules established in the game's world. Everybody is as strong as everybody else. It's a fantasy world where little girls can suplex literal actual bears. Men and women are already equal according to the rules of this universe.

Nobody has a problem with that.

Battlefield is not supposed to be, nor is it trying to be, an "alternate universe" war game. It never markets itself as such. It's supposed to be a "historical" game. You can't do that and also have women storming the beach on D-Day. This inconsistency and historical revisionism can only be attributed to radical feminism. Someone decided "just shove women in there, it'll make us look progressive!"

This consistency is also the reason why I have a problem with Nadine. Nathan is shown to be a proficient fighter in all the other games prior, fighting, and winning against lots of other trained soldiers. But he can't land a single hit on Nadine. This inconsistency can only be attributed to radical feminism. Someone just decided "write in an invincible woman in there, and make her a minority, it'll make us look progressive!"

People have a problem with that.

You cite Mass Effect getting more progressive (aka "worse") over time when the 3rd of 4 games the series was the most successful.

Most successful and lowest scoring.