Election results discussion thread (and sadly the inevitable aftermath)

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Nothing else to do but make dumb memes

 

[Asita]

Not yet.......Though would be good to stop that and you know the likes of Walmart trying to fire employees over using Birth control (like happened a few years back)

So let me get this straight:

You say if we let the fearmongers get their way and single out Sharia as uniquely needing to be banned so they can stoke fears about Muslims and Sharia being a uniquely dangerous threat, that it is to our benefit because we can then point to the law and say "This law is in place to stop it you fear of what could happen now is legally not possible anyway".

I point out that we can say - and indeed have already been saying (even repeatedly to you in this same conversation) - "The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment is in place to stop it you fear of what could happen now is legally not possible anyway".

You respond with the suggestion that that's insufficient because it only stops the government from enacting laws, but posit that a private corporation could pass the law instead and that therefore the First Amendment does not apply. Setting aside the myriad other issues with such a statement, I point out that such a statement is a non-starter because private corporations can't pass laws. Only the government can do that. And your response is "Not yet..."? Really? Are you actually trying to argue that we need to preemptively pass a law exclusively targeting Sharia as something to be banned because otherwise at some undisclosed point in the future a company will somehow have the power to pass a law and use that to replace our legal system with a religious one, and that somehow the First Amendment magically won't apply on the technicality of who passed that law?

 

[Shadyside]

 

[Avnger]

I heard on the radio, never mind "Dominion" and voter fraud, dead people 179 years old, etc.... just accept empty suit, senile, sell out America Biden is POTUS 46. We'll see.

Real talk for a moment.

I genuinely feel sorry for your wife, kids, and anyone who has to interact with you daily. Please seek professional help for their sake if not your own. Continuing down this path of conspiracy theories will lead to nothing but pain for you and them. You haven't found some secret "truth" that the evil overlords want to keep from you. You're falling into an unfortunate quirk of the human psyche that rejects reality because it's easier to process conspiracies.

Why We Fall for Conspiracy Theories

How are conspiracies created and why do they spread?

faculty.lsu.edu

Trapped in a hoax: survivors of conspiracy theories speak out

What happens to those caught up in the toxic lies of conspiracy theorists? The Guardian spoke to five victims whose lives were wrecked by falsehoods

www.theguardian.com

Conspiracy Theory Addiction

Conspiracy theory addiction often causes long-term negative effects on a person's life. Focusing on personal goals and how to achieve them can help.

www.addictioncenter.com

 

[PointlessKnowledge]

Nothing else to do but make dumb memes

How is that different from any other day then?

 

[Trunkage]

Only one page when I woke up. Bit disappointed guys

I'm going to have to start watching Vox again, aren't I? It's not like any in the MSM will report on Biden accurately

 

[dreng3]

Only one page when I woke up. Bit disappointed guys

I'm going to have to start watching Vox again, aren't I? It's not like any in the MSM will report on Biden accurately

I certainly recommend their Weeds podcast it tends to be fairly in depth.

 

[Gergar12]

Biden has a shelter rescue dog...

Biden’s German shepherd Major set to be the first shelter rescue dog in White House

President-elect Joe Biden’s pooch, Major, is set to become the first shelter rescue dog in the White House when the former vice president assumes office next year.{mosads}The president-elect and hi…

thehill.com

Okay fine, I admit it, liberals can be good people too. Even when they will take away your social security, Medicaid, and medicare.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So let me get this straight:

You say if we let the fearmongers get their way and single out Sharia as uniquely needing to be banned so they can stoke fears about Muslims and Sharia being a uniquely dangerous threat, that it is to our benefit because we can then point to the law and say "This law is in place to stop it you fear of what could happen now is legally not possible anyway".

I point out that we can say - and indeed have already been saying (even repeatedly to you in this same conversation) - "The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment is in place to stop it you fear of what could happen now is legally not possible anyway".

You respond with the suggestion that that's insufficient because it only stops the government from enacting laws, but posit that a private corporation could pass the law instead and that therefore the First Amendment does not apply. Setting aside the myriad other issues with such a statement, I point out that such a statement is a non-starter because private corporations can't pass laws. Only the government can do that. And your response is "Not yet..."? Really? Are you actually trying to argue that we need to preemptively pass a law exclusively targeting Sharia as something to be banned because otherwise at some undisclosed point in the future a company will somehow have the power to pass a law and use that to replace our legal system with a religious one, and that somehow the First Amendment magically won't apply on the technicality of who passed that law?

I'm saying

1) You can present a law to address their fears and more
2) ultimate the law would benefit everyone including stopping the easy fear mongering of Sharia Law
3) It literally would align with progressives values to stop Sharia law even being possible
4) It lets you move on to other issues.
5) Plenty of stupid laws exist that likely will never be really used anyway
6) The 1st Amendment again only protects from the actions of government and corporations are becoming far more powerful as of late.
7) The only people the law would really target are the most extreme elements who want Sharia law anyway.

Plenty of laws get pre-emptively passed. It was illegal in the UK to cause a nuclear meltdown. Has there every been a nuclear meltdown in the UK? NO but it was a law put on the books and written into law at one point. Why be reactionary to events when you can be proactive?

 

[Adam Jensen]

Even when they will take away your social security, Medicaid, and medicare.

How is it possible that someone is so uninformed? Expanding those things is literally one of their main goals. Taking it away has been the Republican pipe dream for decades. It's what their donors pay them to do. But they couldn't get it done because of how popular it actually is.

 

[dreng3]

I'm saying

1) You can present a law to address their fears and more
2) ultimate the law would benefit everyone including stopping the easy fear mongering of Sharia Law
3) It literally would align with progressives values to stop Sharia law even being possible
4) It lets you move on to other issues.
5) Plenty of stupid laws exist that likely will never be really used anyway
6) The 1st Amendment again only protects from the actions of government and corporations are becoming far more powerful as of late.
7) The only people the law would really target are the most extreme elements who want Sharia law anyway.

Plenty of laws get pre-emptively passed. It was illegal in the UK to cause a nuclear meltdown. Has there every been a nuclear meltdown in the UK? NO but it was a law put on the books and written into law at one point. Why be reactionary to events when you can be proactive?

Because it would cause more harm than good to be proactive in this case?
It essentially comes down to whether or not it is worth creating the public perception that muslims want to introduce sharia law, and thus there is a need for a law against sharia on the books. Of course it might make sense to the more informed (I personally consider it unnecessary though that is only with present conditions), but there will undoubtedly be americans out there saying something along the lines of "Muslims wanted to introduce sharia law so the government had to make it illegal". By letting matters stay as they are, with sharia law still being impossible, you avoid creating a false stigma.
If you forbid something people will think there is a reason, "There is no smoke without fire".

 

[Gergar12]

How is it possible that someone is so uninformed? Expanding those things is literally one of their main goals. Taking it away has been the Republican pipe dream for decades. It's what their donors pay them to do. But they couldn't get it done because of how popular it actually is.

Fact Check: Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

“I tried with Senator Grassley back in the 1980s to freeze all government spending, including Social Security, including everything,” Biden said in 1995.

theintercept.com

As if the democrats have no donors of their own.

 

[Gergar12]

Fact Check: Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

“I tried with Senator Grassley back in the 1980s to freeze all government spending, including Social Security, including everything,” Biden said in 1995.

theintercept.com

“When I argued that we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security as well,” he told the Senate in 1995. “I meant Medicare and Medicaid. I meant veterans’ benefits. I meant every single solitary thing in the government. And I not only tried it once, I tried it twice, I tried it a third time, and I tried it a fourth time.”

 

[Iron]

Fact Check: Joe Biden Has Advocated Cutting Social Security for 40 Years

“I tried with Senator Grassley back in the 1980s to freeze all government spending, including Social Security, including everything,” Biden said in 1995.

theintercept.com

As if the democrats have no donors of their own.

“When I argued that we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security as well,” he told the Senate in 1995. “I meant Medicare and Medicaid. I meant veterans’ benefits. I meant every single solitary thing in the government. And I not only tried it once, I tried it twice, I tried it a third time, and I tried it a fourth time.”

come on man, be nice. They want to stay uninformed. It's not like there will be a progressive purge in the Dem party soon or anything...

 

[Buyetyen]

“When I argued that we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security as well,” he told the Senate in 1995. “I meant Medicare and Medicaid. I meant veterans’ benefits. I meant every single solitary thing in the government. And I not only tried it once, I tried it twice, I tried it a third time, and I tried it a fourth time.”

And he can fail a fifth time. Especially following a pandemic, cutting safety nets won't be a tenable platform.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Guys where are the riot? I was promised riots.

But seriously I'm surprised how little violence has happened. There have been protests, a few fist fights, two failed terrorist attacks but things have been mostly chill.

 

[Iron]

Guys where are the riot? I was promised riots.

But seriously I'm surprised how little violence has happened. There have been protests, a few fist fights, two failed terrorist attacks but things have been mostly chill.

yeah man it's like as if when regular right wingers lose they don't burn down cities and kill people but accept it for the sake of democracy

 

[Buyetyen]

Guys where are the riot? I was promised riots.

But seriously I'm surprised how little violence has happened. There have been protests, a few fist fights, two failed terrorist attacks but things have been mostly chill.

A lot of these people talk tough but couldn't back it up if you literally held them at gunpoint. We'll probably here of more arrests and thwarted domestic terrorists and Trump will probably incite some violence before Christmas. But a civil war ain't gonna happen.

yeah man it's like as if when regular right wingers lose they don't burn down cities and kill people but accept it for the sake of democracy

Trump's supporters are not precisely "accepting" this loss, what with all the conspiracy theories flying around on the right about voter fraud and Chinese election interference and whatever else they've come up with since I started typing this post. Don't get me wrong, I'd still much rather deal with their whining than them gunning down civilians and I hope that pattern holds.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Because it would cause more harm than good to be proactive in this case?
It essentially comes down to whether or not it is worth creating the public perception that muslims want to introduce sharia law, and thus there is a need for a law against sharia on the books. Of course it might make sense to the more informed (I personally consider it unnecessary though that is only with present conditions), but there will undoubtedly be americans out there saying something along the lines of "Muslims wanted to introduce sharia law so the government had to make it illegal". By letting matters stay as they are, with sharia law still being impossible, you avoid creating a false stigma.
If you forbid something people will think there is a reason, "There is no smoke without fire".

How so?

Any Muslims who aren't radical would likely welcome such law being stopped.
It removes a fear mongering tactic.
It frees up things to deal with more important issues.
Some in the public likely already believe they do and now they'd feel less scared because such a thing has been prevented.
You assume the stigma isn't already there anyway.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Guys where are the riot? I was promised riots.

But seriously I'm surprised how little violence has happened. There have been protests, a few fist fights, two failed terrorist attacks but things have been mostly chill.

I'm sure the promised right wing death squads will be along any minute..........


Unless of course it was mostly hyped up nonsense that likely wasn't going to happen with the media stirring up that narrative to try and present all those fires from "peaceful protests" as some kind of heroes trying to save the nation.

Most of the right wing Militia types will be in their woodland compounds because they think the government is trying to come for them. It would make no sense for them to be in the middle of towns and cites causing chaos making it easy for them to be picked up lol