Prolific "video games make you bad" researcher exposed as planning to refuse to publish his work if it doesn't show video game make you bad + mor

Avnger

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There's no difference between "these patterns reinforce and perpetuate harmful attitudes about women in our culture." and "video games make you sexist".

It's just flowery language.
Your refusal (inability?) to understand that different words have different meanings is noted. Both the studies of psychology and linguistics disagree though.
 

Houseman

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Your refusal (inability?) to understand that different words have different meanings is noted. Both the studies of psychology and linguistics disagree though.
If you disagree, feel free to point out the difference between the two.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
It wasn't marketed as an instruction manual teaching people how to kill.
It was marketed as a spree killer game where you kill and execute innocent people. Bout as close as you can get without literally saying it.

So not interested in being critical of Sarkeesian's media output?
No, I'm not intersting in getting into an old argument again. This shit has been done to death, find someone else to whinge about her too.


I dunno fights in nature can get pretty brutal as an example look up a video of giraffes fighting on youtube.
Its still really uncommon for those to end with death. Really if you wanted a better example you should have brought up male lions sometimes killing cubs from the previous male to get the females into heat faster. But its still a bad argument since we aren't animals like that.
 

Houseman

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It was marketed as a spree killer game where you kill and execute innocent people. Bout as close as you can get without literally saying it.
I played an Ace Attorney game once. Think I'm ready to pass the bar exam?
 

Elijin

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Both of you regularly see anyone who gets tired of going back and forth with you as "storming off", "having a tantrum" and "conceding defeat".

That speaks volumes about your motivations for posting.
 

Houseman

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Notice how both those require something to work on,
And what is it working on?
Or the existing negative attitudes about women in the person?
The existing negative attitudes about women in our culture?

Culture is the correct answer.
And how does culture develop? Can culture change be changed on its own? No, people change culture.

So how do video games "reinforce and perpetuate harmful attitudes about women in our culture"

By making people sexist. Therefore, the culture doesn't change, but is reinforced and perpetuated.

It's flowery language to say "games make people sexist".
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Your refusal (inability?) to understand that different words have different meanings is noted. Both the studies of psychology and linguistics disagree though.
No most of the studies disagree that video games cause sexist and the effect (whose name I've forgotten at present) may not even exist.

Hell even in the past in the Mary Whitehouse days the power of the effect was in huge doubt.


Also it's roughly the same argument used for violent media and for the claims that games and other media are the cause of sexism.


It was marketed as a spree killer game where you kill and execute innocent people. Bout as close as you can get without literally saying it.
So that teaches you how to kill does it?

I mean Postal has had games with similar premises before too.

Also isn't the correlation of violent games being made vs violent crimes showing an inverse correlation?

No, I'm not intersting in getting into an old argument again. This shit has been done to death, find someone else to whinge about her too.
Well they do keep ending with her ardent defenders either running out of any arguments or just ending up throwing ad hominem because they so believe they're doing good and saving the world lol.


Its still really uncommon for those to end with death. Really if you wanted a better example you should have brought up male lions sometimes killing cubs from the previous male to get the females into heat faster. But its still a bad argument since we aren't animals like that.
We come from animals and while those fights don't always end in death it can in the long run due to pushing people out of the group or when multiple group end up in conflict.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Both of you regularly see anyone who gets tired of going back and forth with you as "storming off", "having a tantrum" and "conceding defeat".

That speaks volumes about your motivations for posting.
You chose to claim the only appropriate response was a long fart noise.

Are you telling me that wasn't a fairly immature throwing up of hands and trying to insult and abandoning pretence of civility?

Yet you're the one trying to present others as acting uncivilised by not agreeing with you and providing rather solid arguments. All it comes off as is you going "It's not fair you poo poo heads you won't agree with me".
 

CaitSeith

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...if you think that isn't saying that the cumulative effect of playing those games all but guarantees that someone's kid has sexist views...
What makes you think that's what's it is saying? I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're extrapolating; and that's is my point. Anti-games advocates don't leave room for doubt or extrapolation; for them, games are irredeemable and deserve nothing short of being banned and their creators to face legal consequences, and they are pretty clear about it.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
So that teaches you how to kill does it?

I mean Postal has had games with similar premises before too.

Also isn't the correlation of violent games being made vs violent crimes showing an inverse correlation?
You've already tried to twist this down into something you are more comfortable arguing about.

Well they do keep ending with her ardent defenders either running out of any arguments or just ending up throwing ad hominem because they so believe they're doing good and saving the world lol.
No it ends up with bull shit arguments, nothing is accomplished and then the next week this same shit happens again and before you know it the escapist has been destroyed by that which will not be mentioned and you've lost your hat and any plan where you lose your hat is a bad plan.

We come from animals and while those fights don't always end in death it can in the long run due to pushing people out of the group or when multiple group end up in conflict.
Stubbing your toe or getting a paper cut can end in death also.
 

Houseman

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Anti-games advocates don't leave room for doubt or extrapolation; for them, games are irredeemable and deserve nothing short of being banned and their creators to face legal consequences, and they are pretty clear about it.
It could be that was the old brand of Anti-games advocates. Now the new generation are being more sneaky about it.
 

CaitSeith

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It could be that was the old brand of Anti-games advocates. Now the new generation are being more sneaky about it.
At that point the sky is the limit and I can just accuse people whom I don't agree with, can't I? Houseman, the anti-game advocate? Don't think you can deceive me just because you never say games are bad; you're more sneaky than that.

Or maybe I shouldn't generalize things with false equivalences that make me look like I suffer from delusions of persecution.
 

Trunkage

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And what is it working on?
Or the existing negative attitudes about women in the person?
The existing negative attitudes about women in our culture?

Culture is the correct answer.
And how does culture develop? Can culture change be changed on its own? No, people change culture.

So how do video games "reinforce and perpetuate harmful attitudes about women in our culture"

By making people sexist. Therefore, the culture doesn't change, but is reinforced and perpetuated.

It's flowery language to say "games make people sexist".
Do you think people are born sexist or does the environment they are born in contribute to them being a sexist?
 

Houseman

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At that point the sky is the limit and I can just accuse people whom I don't agree with, can't I?
Of course you can.
Whether or not people will agree with you is a separate matter.

I just don't see any reason to do a No True Scotsman and say "unless you meet these arbitrary qualifications, you're not a ______!"

Do you think people are born sexist or does the environment they are born in contribute to them being a sexist?
The latter.
 

CaitSeith

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I just don't see any reason to do a No True Scotsman and say "unless you meet these arbitrary qualifications, you're not a ______!"
The reason I see is that different problems require different solutions, and applying the same solution to a different issue can make things worse.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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You've already tried to twist this down into something you are more comfortable arguing about.
It's not a twist, it's what you said.

Teaches you about as well to kill as anything that involves a detailed diagram of 'apply knife A to person B's throat in soon to be slot C just between rib cage.'

...... but with how they marketed it and such, I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking it and I'm sure the devs are tools.
You could make the argument that VR shooters, especially those with realistic gun handling are though and it would be hard to really argue against that.
You've also said you believe without violent media society would be less violent yet with violent media society is being markedly less violent.

Big-Picture-Video-games.jpg

No it ends up with bull shit arguments, nothing is accomplished and then the next week this same shit happens again and before you know it the escapist has been destroyed by that which will not be mentioned and you've lost your hat and any plan where you lose your hat is a bad plan.
Well yes, because people defending her keep making bullshit arguments. Often relying on the ignorance or unwillingness of the person they're arguing with the provide evidence or waiting for them to find evidence from certain online sources so the can then try to dismiss the argument by going "Well you quoted the Nazi Sargon of Akkad so your argument is invalid". Using the common "Man covered in shit" argument fallacy.

Stubbing your toe or getting a paper cut can end in death also.
yes, not as often as animal fights lead to it though.