Zack Snyder’s Justice League

[Casual Shinji]

By that logic we cannot take Lord of the Rings seriously or Star Wars. Or any epic heroes of legends and myth in the past. Because they are built upon things that in reality today we find absurd.

I can't take the story of Turin Turambar seriously because he's fights and kills a Dragon, a mere human doing that.

The difference there is that those stories take place in a world that is not ours. Taking the concept of someone dressing up as a superhero and trying to fit them in our own world is never not going to be really, really silly. As opposed to something like Lord of the Rings where the entire setting is one of magic and weirdness, making elves and orcs - while silly - fit in perfectly fine without feeling like you need to slightly squint your eyes to not have the illusion break.

Also, the superhero genre seeming only has two states; silly, superhero fun and dark, edgey brooding. It shows how limited this genre is in creative freedom. Sci-fi, Fantasy, Horror, even Comedy has many faces. Superheroes only have two. There's really very little to explore other than 'Oh no, I have/others have powers; what do we do?', or 'Yay powers, woooo!'

 

[09philj]

The difference there is that those stories take place in a world that is not ours. Taking the concept of someone dressing up as a superhero and trying to fit them in our own world is never not going to be really, really silly. As opposed to something like Lord of the Rings where the entire setting is one of magic and weirdness, making elves and orcs - while silly - fit in perfectly fine without feeling like you need to slightly squint your eyes to not have the illusion break.

Also, the superhero genre seeming only has two states; silly, superhero fun and dark, edgey brooding. It shows how limited this genre is in creative freedom. Sci-fi, Fantasy, Horror, even Comedy has many faces. Superheroes only have two. There's really very little to explore other than 'Oh no, I have/others have powers; what do we do?', or 'Yay powers, woooo!'

I think that colourful fun, brooding introspection, and their comedy child exploitation trash cover the widest slices of superheroes' potential audience, but there are a few things that lie outside it like Grant Morrison's Animal Man run which is just plain bonkers.

 

[BrawlMan]

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[SilentPony]

I mean its already incredibly suspect that they hired fucking Joss Whedon, because you know, he made The Avengers. So he tried to make the movie like The Avengers.

Not to mention he did the same jokes from Avengers and Age of Ultron in Justice League, like his now super uncomfortable gag of dude falls on the hot woman's boobs and motorboats her for a second before apologizing.

 

[Samtemdo8]

The reason I find Batman absurd is how often we have to lower everyone down to Batman's level in order for him to get wins.

Turin had luck and an ambush. He happened to be at the right place at the right time and caught Glaurung offguard.

When Superman fights Batman, there's always something holding Superman back. Mind control rendering him dumber. Not wanting to fight Batman. Or just Batman's invincible Plot Armor that keeps Superman from ever using his powers.

Batman can somehow move fast enough to remove a rock from his belt to weaken Superman. A being whose mind and body moves so quick that he once flew through a moon orbiting Saturn. Given that Saturn is 1.0116 billion mi (1628012390.4 km) away and let's say Superman went through one of its farthest moons which is 8,048,000 mi (12,952,000 km) away, that still means that Superman traveled and navigated 1.0035 Billion miles in 4 minutes.

I mean, that's just stupid. That's a feat that breaks Scientific Reason. But this is a universe where Gods join Superhero teams all the time. So, I'm actually ok with that.

But Batman gets absurd that he's continually stressed to be just a normal human that somehow angles his body to punch harder than metahumans. That he can be fast enough to catch Superman offguard... A Superman that can talk and sometimes keep up with the Flash. That anything Batman can do will somehow register to Superman at all.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_super/0/7604/1763770-superman___lex_luthor_2000__28_.jpg

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a6cf32f6aafea5bb4b8c11eb74e109a9

And Darkseid is usually stronger than Superman. Batman fights Darkseid to stand stills. Batman dodges Darkseid's Omega Beams. Batman isn't a stain when he's touched by Darkseid.

Batman regularly does things Metahumans can't come close to doing simply to keep him relevant. They won't give him powers because they want people to root for him, but they gave him the most OP power there ever was: Plot Armor. Everyone will be on Batman's level, yet no one is allowed to raise above his.

To me, that's what makes Batman Absurd.

Psst, listen listen......

Because Batman authors are the most dick sucking fanboys ever in the history of fanboys.

To borrow from MandaloreGaming, Modern day Batman authors are "That Kid"


Apply what he says about Warhammer 40k at the time this video plays to Batman authors.

 

[happyninja42]

Psst, listen listen......

Because Batman authors are the most dick sucking fanboys ever in the history of fanboys.

Eh, I mean it's not unique to Batman authors honestly. EVERY time writers pit 2 characters against each other, plot contrivances have to be made for it to be "fair". Same thing with Thor vs Hulk in Ragnarok. It's all fictional shit, so they change powers at the drop of a hat. Most of them writing the stuff have ZERO concept of actual science, which is why Spiderman is actually the most powerful character in Marvel, because he once lifted the fucking ocean to get out from under debris. Bottom of the ocean, in a villain lab, dome is compromised, weight of literal fucking ocean pressing down, he willpower's his way to safety and pushes the shit off him. I mean, it's ALL fucking ridiculous. That's why I hate the very concept of these versus type stories. Because the writers are all acting independently when it comes to coming up with power sets, and with varying levels of scale in mind, and they are pointing the characters OUTWARD, towards villains. Inverting them to fight in-house just makes everything fucked up.

You're rule of thumb for who will win, if you even fucking bother to care, which I suggest you don't, is to look at whose movie it is. Whoever is the main protagonist, they will win. Why? Because it's there fucking movie that's why. You notice it wasn't called Hulk: Ragnarok, and oh look, Thor beat Hulk in the arena, and was only stopped by trickery from Jeff Goldblum. Funny how that worked out *glances at poster and sees it focused on THOR*

They might technically lose, in the since that Thor lost that fight officially in the betting ranks and stuff, but in spirit, he clearly was winning, which is why Jeff stepped in. The protag might not get the official victory on the books, though usually they will, but if they lose, it's through a setup of some kind, deception, or because they stopped doing something they should be doing at the wrong time, and thus got de-powered. Like, someone who's power is based around defending others, and instead they lash out in vengence and find themselves weak. That's a plot setup for a Humility Arc, and they will eventually have a rematch and win.

To borrow from MandaloreGaming, Modern day Batman authors are "That Kid"

I find it funny that a guy named after the Mandalore, the most "That Kid"'d Star Wars faction in history, is critizing people writing a character/group as OP to be able to fight those more powerful than them, on an exponential scale.

 

[MrCalavera]

Yes. Adam West is the best Batman of all time, and the 1966 movie is the best Batman film ever to be made, though "Return of the Caped Crusaders" from a few years back is something of a rival.

The basic premise of Batman is rather absurd, taking it too seriously doesn't really work. Batman Begins was very lucky to be successful, and sequels and imitators have no guarantee of the same luck.

Both of you are wrong. Batman TAS set the perfect kind of atmosphere Batman properties should have, and shall serve as a tone blueprint for all Batmen.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Eh, I mean it's not unique to Batman authors honestly. EVERY time writers pit 2 characters against each other, plot contrivances have to be made for it to be "fair". Same thing with Thor vs Hulk in Ragnarok. It's all fictional shit, so they change powers at the drop of a hat. Most of them writing the stuff have ZERO concept of actual science, which is why Spiderman is actually the most powerful character in Marvel, because he once lifted the fucking ocean to get out from under debris. Bottom of the ocean, in a villain lab, dome is compromised, weight of literal fucking ocean pressing down, he willpower's his way to safety and pushes the shit off him. I mean, it's ALL fucking ridiculous. That's why I hate the very concept of these versus type stories. Because the writers are all acting independently when it comes to coming up with power sets, and with varying levels of scale in mind, and they are pointing the characters OUTWARD, towards villains. Inverting them to fight in-house just makes everything fucked up.

You're rule of thumb for who will win, if you even fucking bother to care, which I suggest you don't, is to look at whose movie it is. Whoever is the main protagonist, they will win. Why? Because it's there fucking movie that's why. You notice it wasn't called Hulk: Ragnarok, and oh look, Thor beat Hulk in the arena, and was only stopped by trickery from Jeff Goldblum. Funny how that worked out *glances at poster and sees it focused on THOR*

They might technically lose, in the since that Thor lost that fight officially in the betting ranks and stuff, but in spirit, he clearly was winning, which is why Jeff stepped in. The protag might not get the official victory on the books, though usually they will, but if they lose, it's through a setup of some kind, deception, or because they stopped doing something they should be doing at the wrong time, and thus got de-powered. Like, someone who's power is based around defending others, and instead they lash out in vengence and find themselves weak. That's a plot setup for a Humility Arc, and they will eventually have a rematch and win.



I find it funny that a guy named after the Mandalore, the most "That Kid"'d Star Wars faction in history, is critizing people writing a character/group as OP to be able to fight those more powerful than them, on an exponential scale.

To defend MandaloreGaming's name, I don't think he named himself after the Star Wars faction, if he did, he would have made his avatar a Boba Fett looking person, he didn't even reference it in his Republic Commando Review.

 

[happyninja42]

To defend MandaloreGaming's name, I don't think he named himself after the Star Wars faction, if he did, he would have made his avatar a Boba Fett looking person, he didn't even reference it in his Republic Commando Review.

I know of no other use of that name other than Star Wars. So I find the idea that someone in the nerd/gaming/tv/etc industry, would be somehow referencing something else. I mean I guess it might have some other context, but I've never heard that word uttered by anyone, particularly a professional nerd, other than Star Wars.

I'm not like shitting on him or anything, I just find it funny. Because I agree that Batman writers do that a lot, to make him relevant when up against literal gods that can obliterate planets. I just find it funny that the same thing was done by that one EU author back in the day. It's a funny bit of symmetry to me in a way.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Both of you are wrong. Batman TAS set the perfect kind of atmosphere Batman properties should have, and shall serve as a tone blueprint for all Batmen.

Sadly its the universe where its canon that Bruce and Barbara fucked.

 

[happyninja42]

Sadly its the universe where its canon that Bruce and Barbara fucked.

Why is that a problem? She's an adult, and it's hardly a unique thing for coworkers to get the hots for each other.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Why is that a problem? She's an adult, and it's hardly a unique thing for coworkers to get the hots for each other.

Its just the typical "He's 20 years her senior" type of ickyness.

 

[Gordon_4]

Why is that a problem? She's an adult, and it's hardly a unique thing for coworkers to get the hots for each other.

For me its a personal thing, since Barbara was dating Dick Grayson at the time. So they both stepped out of line on that alone. The age gap isn't a big deal, but I think it hurts the position when Bruce has known Barbara since she was like sixteen and she's the daughter of one of his friends.

That and Justice League spent a lot of time baiting Batman and Wonder Woman which I dug like hell and then found out what happened with Batman Beyond. I was displeased

 

[ObsidianJones]

Why is that a problem? She's an adult, and it's hardly a unique thing for coworkers to get the hots for each other.

Eh... I don't know.

The whole Bat Family skeeves me out. It's very cultish. He has an iron fist over them. They are all afraid of disappointing him. They all want his approval.

Sexuality introduced to a situation like that makes me cringe on the inside.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Sadly its the universe where its canon that Bruce and Barbara fucked.

One of the universes, that comes up every so often.

 

[happyninja42]

Eh... I don't know.

The whole Bat Family skeeves me out. It's very cultish. He has an iron fist over them. They are all afraid of disappointing him. They all want his approval.

Sexuality introduced to a situation like that makes me cringe on the inside.

*shrugs* i don't see it being any different than any other relationship in a supergroup, and given how fucking insane they can sometimes be the idea that "young single woman (probably with some daddy issues) falls in love with OBSCENELY RICH, older guy in a mentor role, with a troubled past and survivor's guilt, that she can try and save/cure with her magic vagina" is so true to life on so many levels, that I just really don't bat an eye at it.

Call me when they have Barbara become the gestation vessel for a guy to mind control and rape so he can be birthed inside her in another dimension to escape cosmic imprisonment. Until they do something like THAT with her and Bruce, I'll be over here having a coffee and considering it one of the most vanilla relationships to ever be in comics since the dawn of time

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

And people wonder why comics get a bad rap with regards to female characters.

Anyway, surprisingly relevant video

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Not to mention he did the same jokes from Avengers and Age of Ultron in Justice League, like his now super uncomfortable gag of dude falls on the hot woman's boobs and motorboats her for a second before apologizing.

Apparently Gal Gadot refused to do that scene, so it had to be accomplished with special effects. Joss Whedon really is a weird prick isn't he. At this point, I just expect every person in Hollywood to be a horrible person.

Until they do something like THAT with her and Bruce, I'll be over here having a coffee and considering it one of the most vanilla relationships to ever be in comics since the dawn of time

The thing is that the relationship was pretty much totally created for the DC animated universe. There's no such relationship in the comics, at least the main ones. Which means the writers went out of their way to set up this weird scenario. Kinda like a fanfiction writer somehow getting hired on to their favorite franchise and just going nuts with inserting their bizarre head canon.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

And people wonder why comics get a bad rap with regards to female characters.

Anyway, surprisingly relevant video

I still find it kinda funny how people see The Killing Joke as some big problematic thing. It's major in that it's one of the only times that the status quo is changed and sticks and doesn't try to return to normal. Admittedly where it goes from the events is likely far better than the events themselves but it shows the idea of people still finding a way to carry on, that life doesn't just end after such an injury and doesn't have to. Hell Arkham Knight (the video game) actually does some pretty good stuff with a subplot with Oracle which pays off at the end when you get the true ending of the game.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

*shrugs* i....

-Snipped cause forum being weird-
....most vanilla relationships to ever be in comics since the dawn of time

I dunno we did get Batman Beyond Ra's al Ghul swapping his mind with Talia to seduce elderly Bruce and Lazarus pit him to then try and transfer his consciousness out of Talia's body into Bruce's.

Also Justice League Dark with the implication that in the DC animated universe Talia may have drugged and raped Bruce to father Damien........