8 People Killed In Atlanta Massage Parlor Shootings

[BrawlMan]

Some updates.

A trip to the spa that ended in death. These are some of the victims of the Atlanta-area shootings | CNN

Delaina Yaun and her husband were at Youngs Asian Massage, a spa in Acworth, Georgia, last Tuesday, when a gunman entered and opened fire.

www.google.com

In Atlanta, Biden Condemns Attacks on Asian-Americans (Published 2021)

Four more victims of this week’s spa shootings were identified, while the suspect’s church called the attacks “the result of a sinful heart and depraved mind.”

www.nytimes.com

 

[SilentPony]

SNIP

Well yeah in the same way some sects of Islam forcing women to cover their face and always have a male escort aren't sexist, if you're part of that sect.
My point being Western sexist incels find a lot appealing about Eastern sex relation customs because of the subservient role women are forced into. There's a reason Japan has women only train cars now, because its just a cultural practice to grope women on a train. Japan culturally treats women as a commodity rather than an individualized person, and that really appeals to Western men who can't get a woman through their personality and appealing to them and would much rather have a sex slave/cleaner who is culturally obligated to say yes.

In part that's why this incel fuck went to these massage parlors. Eastern women are trafficked and enslaved in them all the time, and they're just fronts from rape rings where women are forced into prostitution to pay for their green cards and travel visas. He wasn't going to an anime shop or comic book shop hoping to find a woman who is interested in Asian culture and start a healthy relationship with, he was looking for sex slaves. Its almost a common knowledge there is no such thing as a $10 massage or $10 manicure/pedicure, the discount comes from the the fact the women aren't paid well if at all.

 

[Buyetyen]

I think what you see as sexist is coming from a westerner perspective and a westerner ideal of femininity. Japan operates under the yamato nadeshiko ideal which is more attractive to them.

Which is a bit like saying the witch hunts in central Africa aren't sexist, they're just part of the local perspective on femininity.

Can we have this conversation without the gratuitous fetishization of Japan?

 

[SilentPony]

Can we have this conversation without the gratuitous fetishization of Japan?

To be fair these shootings happened in part because this shooter fetishized Japan and the idea of subservient women.

 

[Schadrach]

because they didn't want to waste their precious medical degrees on people who would have babies and leave the profession.

Ending exactly this practice in the US is why we have Title IX. Only later did it start applying to sports programs and only after that did sexual conduct between students become part of it's domain.

But yeah outside of this particular incident you definitely have a rise in crimes against random asians,

I've heard this repeatedly, coverage of this shooting keeps invoking said rise in crimes against persons of Asian descent. I'm going to ask a dumb question: Does anyone have any info on the demographics of the perpetrators of said increase in hate crimes against Asians?

Japan culturally treats women as a commodity rather than an individualized person, and that really appeals to Western men who can't get a woman through their personality and appealing to them and would much rather have a sex slave/cleaner who is culturally obligated to say yes.

Wouldn't it be easier to just join one flavor of fundamentalist Christian or another? A lot of them have similar views of women, aren't on the other side of an ocean, and have less of a language barrier. Especially for this guy, what with already being "deeply religious", wouldn't it have been a lot simpler for him to just join the right church and get one of the older men in the church to marry off his 7th daughter to him?

 

[Dreiko]

Well yeah in the same way some sects of Islam forcing women to cover their face and always have a male escort aren't sexist, if you're part of that sect.
My point being Western sexist incels find a lot appealing about Eastern sex relation customs because of the subservient role women are forced into. There's a reason Japan has women only train cars now, because its just a cultural practice to grope women on a train. Japan culturally treats women as a commodity rather than an individualized person, and that really appeals to Western men who can't get a woman through their personality and appealing to them and would much rather have a sex slave/cleaner who is culturally obligated to say yes.

In part that's why this incel fuck went to these massage parlors. Eastern women are trafficked and enslaved in them all the time, and they're just fronts from rape rings where women are forced into prostitution to pay for their green cards and travel visas. He wasn't going to an anime shop or comic book shop hoping to find a woman who is interested in Asian culture and start a healthy relationship with, he was looking for sex slaves. Its almost a common knowledge there is no such thing as a $10 massage or $10 manicure/pedicure, the discount comes from the the fact the women aren't paid well if at all.

The distinction here is that Islamic countries do this at the point of a sword. They're not democratic, they're theocratic or authoritarian, and women are forced to act in a certain way or they get killed or heavily punished by the state or their relatives. Japan just has democracy though and has managed first world country status while being technologically advanced, so their way is just another valid way for a first world country to be. A different normal.

There is nothing wrong with a cultural difference if it is not enforced through violence. The issue with Islamic nations isn't whatever crazy things their religion preaches but the fact that people are forced to follow them.

And no groping women at the train is not a cultural practice, that's a side-effect of people being crammed into trains like sardines so if you're not keeping your hands straight up you will be fingering 5 strangers without even realizing it and some people take advantage of that.

And I'm sure most prostitutes are in some similar condition of being taken advantage of, not just the asian ones. It's why people look down on pimps lol.

 

[Agema]

Ending exactly this practice in the US is why we have Title IX. Only later did it start applying to sports programs and only after that did sexual conduct between students become part of it's domain.

Seeing as you put it like that, clearly proof that women should be de facto denied medical degrees.

 

[SilentPony]

Wouldn't it be easier to just join one flavor of fundamentalist Christian or another? A lot of them have similar views of women, aren't on the other side of an ocean, and have less of a language barrier. Especially for this guy, what with already being "deeply religious", wouldn't it have been a lot simpler for him to just join the right church and get one of the older men in the church to marry off his 7th daughter to him?

Probably, but somehow I doubt his 'religious' justification. As someone who went to Catholic school for his entire life at schools run by actually fucking Monks, the Bible is very clear that if your eye causes you to lust, put it out, and if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. The Bible is clear you are responsible for removing yourself from Sin, not removing the Sin from the world. To attempt to judge and police the world is in fact a grave Sin because you're taking the responsibly of God in your own hands, and only God can judge the world. Man can only judge himself and police himself, everything else is God's jurisdiction.
I think the Religious thing is just his attempt to change the story to one of pity, and it fucking worked. The cops don't seen a deranged killer, they see a devout, religious young boy who was at the end of his rope and just had a bad day and got rid of sinners, and unfortunately he has to be prosecuted. I guarantee you there are pastors on Sunday who will deliver a sermon that the little shit is just a lost lamb and he was just trying to make the world a better place.
And it'll be picked up by conservative media that he's not a sexists white supremacist, he's a religious boy just killing the whores and now liberals want to police and imprison God loving Christian men, welcome to Joe's new America where you can't be white or Christian.

 

[Agema]

The distinction here is that Islamic countries do this at the point of a sword. They're not democratic, they're theocratic or authoritarian, and women are forced to act in a certain way or they get killed or heavily punished by the state or their relatives. Japan just has democracy though and has managed first world country status while being technologically advanced, so their way is just another valid way for a first world country to be. A different normal.

"They're not sexist because I like them"

 

[SilentPony]

The distinction here is that Islamic countries do this at the point of a sword. They're not democratic, they're theocratic or authoritarian, and women are forced to act in a certain way or they get killed or heavily punished by the state or their relatives. Japan just has democracy though and has managed first world country status while being technologically advanced, so their way is just another valid way for a first world country to be. A different normal.

I think the very fact they have engrained sexism means they're not first world. They have technology, sure. They may even have some form of Democracy. But they still have caste systems, women are still second class citizens, racial minorities barely count as people, sexual identity isn't recognized, Gays and Lesbians can't get married, they're deeply racists and xenophobic and they're repressed.
Its not a different normal, its a bad culture that just happens to have technology. In the same way Saudi Arabia is a rich country because of oil, but no one looks at their culture as something to emulate and promote, they just happen to be too rich to be corrected.

 

[Dreiko]

I think the very fact they have engrained sexism means they're not first world. They have technology, sure. They may even have some form of Democracy. But they still have caste systems, women are still second class citizens, racial minorities barely count as people, sexual identity isn't recognized, Gays and Lesbians can't get married, they're deeply racists and xenophobic and they're repressed.
Its not a different normal, its a bad culture that just happens to have technology. In the same way Saudi Arabia is a rich country because of oil, but no one looks at their culture as something to emulate and promote, they just happen to be too rich to be corrected.

Nope it's definitely first world by any metric we use to judge that. You just introduced a bunch of random other factors that are irrelevant.

Technology, educational level, wealth, crime statistics, these are the actually important things here, and they're way ahead of the US in all of these areas. If they're not first world we're definitely not that either. Hell, nobody is that.


First world just judges the level of development a civilisation has, things like literacy rates and industrialization and that sort of thing. Whether you have to burn coal or wood to heat your house, stuff like that. Boutique problems like the ones you're raising are only ever contemplated once first world status has been achieved for long enough that a populace can grow decadent enough to care about them.

"They're not sexist because I like them"

More like "they don't fundamentally acknowledge the concept of sexism that we have, and also as a separate point, I like em".

 

[Buyetyen]

They're not democratic, they're theocratic or authoritarian, and women are forced to act in a certain way or they get killed or heavily punished by the state or their relatives. Japan just has democracy though and has managed first world country status while being technologically advanced, so their way is just another valid way for a first world country to be. A different normal.

What bullshit. Remember those witch hunts I mentioned? Those take place in democracies as well.

 

[SilentPony]

Nope it's definitely first world by any metric we use to judge that. You just introduced a bunch of random other factors that are irrelevant.

Technology, educational level, wealth, crime statistics, these are the actually important things here, and they're way ahead of the US in all of these areas. If they're not first world we're definitely not that either. Hell, nobody is that.


More like "they don't fundamentally acknowledge the concept of sexism that we have, and also as a separate point, I like em".

Actually no that's wrong, freedom of the people and how they treat minorities and social/financial mobility are ways to judge a country and on that scale Japan is not first world.

 

[Buyetyen]

Nope it's definitely first world by any metric we use to judge that. You just introduced a bunch of random other factors that are irrelevant.

And by "we" you mean yourself.

 

[Agema]

And by "we" you mean yourself.

Bingo.

 

[Agema]

More like "they don't fundamentally acknowledge the concept of sexism that we have, and also as a separate point, I like em".

Neither does Saudi Arabia. Ergo Saudi Arabia isn't sexist, QED.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Technology, educational level, wealth, crime statistics, these are the actually important things here, and they're way ahead of the US in all of these areas.

You know the justice system in Japan is totally borked, right? The reason they have that 99% incarceration rate is because it's virtually impossible to defend yourself in a court of law over there. That's not them being way ahead at all.

 

[SilentPony]

You know the justice system in Japan is totally borked, right? The reason they have that 99% incarceration rate is because it's virtually impossible to defend yourself in a court of law over there. That's not them being way ahead at all.

In Japan don't you not only have to prove you're innocent, but also find the real culprit and prove it was them all as part of the defense, and you are presumed guilty until you can prove someone else did it?

 

[Casual Shinji]

In Japan don't you not only have to prove you're innocent, but also find the real culprit and prove it was them all as part of the defense, and you are presumed guilty until you can prove someone else did it?

I think like most of Japan's cultural issues it has to do with shame. Being arrested puts a blight on you making you guilty by virtue of being arrested. I'm not too savy on the details though.

 

[SilentPony]

I think like most of Japan's cultural issues it has to do with shame. Being arrested puts a blight on you making you guilty by virtue of being arrested. I'm not too savy on the details though.

Part of it is shame, and part of it is just their lack of rights. You don't have a right to a lawyer during questioning, you don't have a right to a speedy trial, you don't have a right to cross examine and the prosecution doesn't have to share evidence.
I looked it up and although they have a 99.3% conviction rate, they only have a 37% indictment rate, but the saying is "innocent until indicted" which is something, but also there is a lot of pressure on Judges to always give a conviction, and this goes back to your shame point, its a shame on a prosecutors not to win, which in theory was meant to mean they do stupid due diligence for every case, but in reality just made the courts rubber stamp courts.