Zack Snyder’s Justice League

[Piscian]

I love that you said this. Specifically because I had a similar experience, but with the novels. Back when I was in highschool, in the 90s, I tried, multiple times, to read Fellowship, but, FUUUUUUCK was it boring. Chapter after chapter after CHAPTER of the Shire, and all the wacky hijinx of the hobbits! Ooooh, look at those silly Bagginses and Floppinsens, and Toodleflipperies! They have a "heated, generations long -rivalry-" over a set of teacups!! OOOooh, isn't that just so quaint and delightful!! No...no it's not, it's fucking boring. And petty, and spiteful. Oh good, we're leaving the Shire...fucking FINALLY!!! ....wait...who is this prancing, dancing, rhyming shitbag who's literally just dancing his way into the scene like a streaker at a sports game? Tom Bombadil? Oh god....oh god no. He...he thinks he's in a fucking musical. Oh god please make it stop. *puts book down and swears to pick it up again later* *years pass* Hmm, maybe I should give it a try again, but...I don't remember anything, so I'd better start at the beginning again......oh god.....oh god I remember why I stopped reading this. That happened like 3 different times, before I literally had to be TRIPPING ON ACID, and needed something to occupy my mind while I was alone in my dorm room, for several hours. THAT was finally how I was able to get through that fucking book, and then continue the series later when I was no longer tripping. I just, I really don't think the books are as amazing as people make them out to be. And the films are good films, but still, nothing that I really think is amazing.

I listened the LOTR trilogy on audible a few months back. Couldn't tell you fuck all about it. Idk, shit happened and then it was over. I was hoping that it would give me more of that elusive "journey", but it just wasn't for me I guess. If anyone is offended by me sounding maybe negative towards LOTR, know this. Ive read all of RA Salvatores books. This is clearly the opinion of the village idiot. Don't sweat it.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I just cannot comprehend why it looks dreadful, and I've seen plenty of battles in film and television to know what's dreadful and what's not.

Everything looks fake and nothing looks like it's there.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Everything looks fake and nothing looks like it's there.

I know its fake, but realism and believability is not what I wanted out of that battle nor was it the point.

 

[MrCalavera]

The problem that I have with that fight, is that it is just a big CGI battle, between two groups of people, who I don't know, nor do I care about.

In contrast to Avenger's Endgame's big CGI battle, which had 10 years worth of character development and build-up behind it.

I'm gonna take the opportunity here, and piss a bit on MCU for a change:

The final battle scene in Endgame doesn't look that good either:

Same brownish-grey colour pallette, with muted light in the background. Same bajillion of units melding into a blob.
Setting proper build-up aside, and just judging the visuals, it's actually funny how similar these two examples look.

 

[09philj]

Everything looks fake and nothing looks like it's there.

I have no understanding of why people like it but extreme weightless semi-pornographic artificiality is an aesthetic that Snyder has stuck with for a long time, so clearly there's some people beyond him who like it.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I'm gonna take the opportunity here, and piss a bit on MCU for a change:

The final battle scene in Endgame doesn't look that good either:

Same brownish-grey colour pallette, with muted light in the background. Same bajillion of units melding into a blob.
Setting proper build-up aside, and just judging the visuals, it's actually funny how similar these two examples look.

I feel like when people ask for color in an epic battle of this kind. The only colorful thing I can think of is the big battle in the Narnia movie


But I don't think what made this battle great and epic was its color pallete necessarily

 

[happyninja42]

I'm gonna take the opportunity here, and piss a bit on MCU for a change:

The final battle scene in Endgame doesn't look that good either:

Same brownish-grey colour pallette, with muted light in the background. Same bajillion of units melding into a blob.
Setting proper build-up aside, and just judging the visuals, it's actually funny how similar these two examples look.

I agree, and said as much in my earlier post. The difference for most people, is that they actually know, and care about the various characters in Endgame's sequence, whereas nobody knows, or cares about the DC greek gods as portrayed in that scene. It's also the culmination fight of over a decade of audience investment, and the climactic fight of a 2 part film. The Snyder scene is just a quick expository scene. So a lot of differences there. Still doesn't mean it looks good though.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I know its fake, but realism and believability is not what I wanted out of that battle nor was it the point.

Was the point to look like a cutscene from a PS4 launch title?

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Was the point to look like a cutscene from a PS4 launch title?

It very well might have been, more or less. I think for directors of action movies there is a great appeal in the use of CGI to depict fanciful action setpieces that defy "real" physics, as they are seen, for example, in video games. There is super visceral, super grounded action like you'd find it Michael Mann's Heat or in a Sergio Leone western, which are things of beauty in themselves and then there's... well, there's this:


Which is a snippet from an animated movie directed by Tetsuya Nomura, of the Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts series, who might very well be the reigning king of ridiculous over the top action scenes. And it's pretty clear that Snyder is looking at anime and video games when it comes to how he choreographs action, not so much to classic live action cinema. The problem of course is, that, as good as CGI has gotten over the past 20 years, it's still all but impossible to make scenes like those look seamless next to live action footage. Also one of the main reasons why the Star Wars prequels look absolutely hideous, there are numerous scenes where you have the head of a flesh and blood actor floating in an entirely CGI environment. And there is something kind of sad there, you know. I think directors like Snyder, Verbinski, the Wachowski's and indeed George Lucas could do wonders if they pivoted to animated movies. And to be fair, I think all of those have dabbled in animation. But with high budget animation being almost entirely made for children, you couldn't have a movie on the scale of Justice League or Pirates of the Carribean done entirely in animation. So, you know, here we are. Where we have gorgeous animated action scenes awkwardly spliced together with live action footage. We are still decades from anything resembling a seamless marriage of those two mediums.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It very well might have been, more or less. I think for directors of action movies there is a great appeal in the use of CGI to depict fanciful action setpieces that defy "real" physics, as they are seen, for example, in video games. There is super visceral, super grounded action like you'd find it Michael Mann's Heat or in a Sergio Leone western, which are things of beauty in themselves and then there's... well, there's this:


Which is a snippet from an animated movie directed by Tetsuya Nomura, of the Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts series, who might very well be the reigning king of ridiculous over the top action scenes. And it's pretty clear that Snyder is looking at anime and video games when it comes to how he choreographs action, not so much to classic live action cinema. The problem of course is, that, as good as CGI has gotten over the past 20 years, it's still all but impossible to make scenes like those look seamless next to live action footage. Also one of the main reasons why the Star Wars prequels look absolutely hideous, there are numerous scenes where you have the head of a flesh and blood actor floating in an entirely CGI environment. And there is something kind of sad there, you know. I think directors like Snyder, Verbinski, the Wachowski's and indeed George Lucas could do wonders if they pivoted to animated movies. And to be fair, I think all of those have dabbled in animation. But with high budget animation being almost entirely made for children, you couldn't have a movie on the scale of Justice League or Pirates of the Carribean done entirely in animation. So, you know, here we are. Where we have gorgeous animated action scenes awkwardly spliced together with live action footage. We are still decades from anything resembling a seamless marriage of those two mediums.

CG is a losing battle if you overrely on it, yes. But I would expect JL to look outdated in a few years and not HOURS after its release. If Snyder can't convincingly erase a mustache why is it a good idea to try do an epic LotR style battle? LotR looks fantastic to this day. Some of the animation is a bit iffy here and there (Legolas riding the troll or skating down the mumak trunk) but otherwise looks light years better than this crap.

 

[09philj]

CG is a losing battle if you overrely on it, yes. But I would expect JL to look outdated in a few years and not HOURS after its release. If Snyder can't convincingly erase a mustache why is it a good idea to try do an epic LotR style battle? LotR looks fantastic to this day. Some of the animation is a bit iffy here and there (Legolas riding the troll or skating down the mumak trunk) but otherwise looks light years better than this crap.

Well the secret of Lord of the Rings is that not very much of the things that you're meant to focus on are CG, and when it does focus on something CG it's often in motion or not in shot for very long, or shot at a long distance, and in amongst a lot of very good practical stuff. Same goes for something like Mad Max: Fury Road.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

CG is a losing battle if you overrely on it, yes. But I would expect JL to look outdated in a few years and not HOURS after its release. If Snyder can't convincingly erase a mustache why is it a good idea to try do an epic LotR style battle? LotR looks fantastic to this day. Some of the animation is a bit iffy here and there (Legolas riding the troll or skating down the mumak trunk) but otherwise looks light years better than this crap.

Let's be honest here, the Lord of the Rings trilogy was a once in a lifetime miracle where somehow everything that could have gone right actually did go right. Even Peter Jackson couldn't reproduce it when he made the Hobbit movies where all the big action scenes also look like... well, this. Those were also filmed at a higher framerate, which I imagine didn't catch on, precisely because it calls attention to bad effects.

 

[Gordon_4]

I feel like when people ask for color in an epic battle of this kind. The only colorful thing I can think of is the big battle in the Narnia movie


But I don't think what made this battle great and epic was its color pallete necessarily

The battle from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is a great battle. Everything’s well lit, the forces are distinct and Harry Gregson-William’s score piece for the scene - The Battle - is perfection. It’s a bit low key compared to Avengers Endgame or Justice League but it’s still good. And yes, the colour helps.

 

[Samtemdo8]

The battle from The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is a great battle. Everything’s well lit, the forces are distinct and Harry Gregson-William’s score piece for the scene - The Battle - is perfection. It’s a bit low key compared to Avengers Endgame or Justice League but it’s still good. And yes, the colour helps.

Battle against Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance was drab and brown because we were in fucking Mordor

 

[Gordon_4]

Battle against Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance was drab and brown because we were in fucking Mordor

I didn’t mention Lord of the Rings in my post you prat. And yes, Mordor is drab. But the Elves and Men are NOT.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I didn’t mention Lord of the Rings in my post you prat. And yes, Mordor is drab. But the Elves and Men are NOT.

I was just showing other epic battles scenes in film

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

If this thing was in theaters I might watch it because it's the kind of big dumb bombastic thing that's really meant to be seen in theaters.

I'm not watching it on my TV in 4:3 with half my TV's size not even being used. Fuck that.

 

[Samtemdo8]

If this thing was in theaters I might watch it because it's the kind of big dumb bombastic thing that's really meant to be seen in theaters.

I'm not watching it on my TV in 4:3 with half my TV's size not even being used. Fuck that.

I'm wondering if it will get a limited theatrical release in the future.

 

[SilentPony]

I'm wondering if it will get a limited theatrical release in the future.

I mean if theaters survive. Most are gone, the rest are dying and we're looking at at least another 12-18 months

 

[Gordon_4]

I'm wondering if it will get a limited theatrical release in the future.

It’s certainly not impossible.