National Guard called into Minneapolis

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Revnak

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I could care less if they personally care about it or not, as long as they do what is required of them either way whatever their reasoning is. It was actually in Hillary Clinton's first year budget and would have been funded and put into motion already. That is the closest we have ever gotten as of yet.
And the Great Society would’ve resolved all this too. That their interests are obviously unaligned with this is important, if it’s clearly not what those in power want then how can we be surprised when they weasel their way out of their responsibilities to us and return to their responsibilities to capital. Hilary Clinton’s plan probably would’ve been means tested and underfunded, would’ve been rolled out over a decade, and amounted to a training video on racism that you skip through on your first day. The pressure put on these fools must be direct, power must be taken by the hands of the powerless.
Edit- oh, and obviously forgot this bit, if a Democratic President willing to talk to activists and involve them in writing platform material was all it took, why the fuck wasn’t this fixed under Obama?
 
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lil devils x

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And the Great Society would’ve resolved all this too. That their interests are obviously unaligned with this is important, if it’s clearly not what those in power want then how can we be surprised when they weasel their way out of their responsibilities to us and return to their responsibilities to capital. Hilary Clinton’s plan probably would’ve been means tested and underfunded, would’ve been rolled out over a decade, and amounted to a training video on racism that you skip through on your first day. The pressure put on these fools must be direct, power must be taken by the hands of the powerless.
Edit- oh, and obviously forgot this bit, if a Democratic President willing to talk to activists and involve them in writing platform material was all it took, why the fuck wasn’t this fixed under Obama?
I have no idea why Obama didn't respond, but this happened only AFTER Black Lives Matter protesters took Bernie's mic away and he let them have the stage. Both Clinton and Bernie Hired BLM activists at that point to help them solve the problem. People criticized them for that action, but it seemed to be what finally worked to get results needed by the campaigns.

Can you just imagine Trump's response to that however? YIKES. He probably would want to have them shot.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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As some-one brought it up.

As much as I think the anti-lockdown protester were morons there was little to no incidents at the protests.

No-one started shit.

There was at worst the odd heated exchange of words.

In this case the protest seemingly descended into rioting within about 3 hours of them starting.

What are people expecting that people be allowed to burn the place to the ground and everyone not try to stop that?

All of these things were actually addressed and budgeted by Hillary Clinton on the federal level to address this while she was running, but Trump screamed she was anti police and nothing ever happened. The federal government can actually give them funding for training and equipment needed to change their policies, but that isn't going to happen while the racist cops have the support of the racist community empowering them.
Except cases where Body Cameras are being involved have been getting called a problem because police are allowed to re review the footage which means it's harder for people to get off by using technicalities about discrepancies in testimony

Also again they have specific demands which you laid out and the question would be if they'd accept Hillary's alternative solutions because they don't match up with the actual demands here.
 
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Revnak

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I have no idea why Obama didn't respond, but this happened only AFTER Black Lives Matter protesters took Bernie's mic away and he let them have the stage. Both Clinton and Bernie Hired BLM activists at that point to help them solve the problem. People criticized them for that action, but it seemed to be what finally worked to get results needed by the campaigns.
Cool, maybe she should’ve kept stealing mics.
 

Sneed's SeednFeed

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As some-one brought it up.

As much as I think the anti-lockdown protester were morons there was little to no incidents at the protests.

No-one started shit.

There was at worst the odd heated exchange of words.

In this case the protest seemingly descended into rioting within about 3 hours of them starting.

What are people expecting that people be allowed to burn the place to the ground and everyone not try to stop that?
I don't think anyone wasn't expecting this sort of response. Aside from CNN getting arrested live on air though.

In addition I think it's very clear that the anti-lockdown protests were toothless complaining whereas this is where the real disenfranchisement and injustice was based in. Not some arbitrary 'let me work' rhetoric from Trumpers, but from the people systematically suffering from socioeconomic issues. That's why it escalated into a riot. It's where the discontent actually is.
 

Bob_McMillan

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As a person who lives in a country where police kill wantonly not even because of racism, but just because they can, I can easily sympathize with the protesters. Would I personally want to burn down buildings? Probably not. But then I have lived a very privileged life, I've never lost a brother because some cops wanted some drinking money and decided to kill a random person and frame him as a drug pusher. I don't think people do something as drastic as rioting on a whim, that shit has to have been built up. Seems to me the people of Minneapolis have more reasons to be angry than just the death of George Floyd.

Generalizing all of the protesters as looters seems unfair as well. I saw a video where some middle aged white dude was running out of the Target with a shopping cart chock full of goodies, with the biggest box belonging to the latest Nerf gun. A fucking Nerf gun!!! You really want me to believe that guy's a protester?

Lastly, as a foreigner, can I say that its super weird that the US can have riots, pretty violent ones with people dying and a shit ton of looting, caused by a baseball game and no one bats an eye. I mean no one approves of it sure, but it seems to me that it's just accepted as normal. But when it's a riot caused by outrage due to the murder of an innocent man, on top of decades of systemic abuse, all of a sudden it's a bigger concern that a Target got trashed?

I could be oversimplifying things, I am just an outsider. But I do hope that something changes in the US. Change certainly seems to be needed.
 

Revnak

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As some-one brought it up.

As much as I think the anti-lockdown protester were morons there was little to no incidents at the protests.

No-one started shit.

There was at worst the odd heated exchange of words.

In this case the protest seemingly descended into rioting within about 3 hours of them starting.
Absurdly inaccurate take, cops were firing tracer rounds and tear gas when this was little more than people yelling at them on day one. Escalation was started by the police as part of their early attempts to “control crowds.” There’s still records of police chatter where guys were running out of rounds and tear gas before people even broke into the liquor store.
 

lil devils x

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As some-one brought it up.

As much as I think the anti-lockdown protester were morons there was little to no incidents at the protests.

No-one started shit.

There was at worst the odd heated exchange of words.

In this case the protest seemingly descended into rioting within about 3 hours of them starting.

What are people expecting that people be allowed to burn the place to the ground and everyone not try to stop that?


Except cases where Body Cameras are being involved have been getting called a problem because police are allowed to re review the footage which means it's harder for people to get off by using technicalities about discrepancies in testimony

Also again they have specific demands which you laid out and the question would be if they'd accept Hillary's alternative solutions because they don't match up with the actual demands here.
The body camera issue was already addressed, if there was missing footage of a confrontation, the officer could be suspended or terminated depending on the situation. The actual officers should not be reviewing the footage, a 3rd party should be the one doing so. Requiring an external investigation of ALL violent incidents would solve much of this. When you change the policy to make violence a last resort, there should be much fewer violent confrontations to begin with.
 

tippy2k2

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I'm worried it's going to be Too Little Too Late at this point but hopefully this will help quell some of the anger raging through the cities right now
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Absurdly inaccurate take, cops were firing tracer rounds and tear gas when this was little more than people yelling at them on day one. Escalation was started by the police as part of their early attempts to “control crowds.” There’s still records of police chatter where guys were running out of rounds and tear gas before people even broke into the liquor store.
Except rocks were being thrown at them at the time and the lines had already pulled back close to the station.

The body camera issue was already addressed, if there was missing footage of a confrontation, the officer could be suspended or terminated depending on the situation. The actual officers should not be reviewing the footage, a 3rd party should be the one doing so. Requiring an external investigation of ALL violent incidents would solve much of this. When you change the policy to make violence a last resort, there should be much fewer violent confrontations to begin with.
No the issue isn't about missing footage but that the footage exists and is allowed to be reviewed thus it makes it harder to claim police were unjustly stopping people or there was no crime being committed so it was an illegitimate stop.

Also 3rd parties do review the footage however Officer are allowed to do so to help write their reports.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I'm worried it's going to be Too Little Too Late at this point but hopefully this will help quell some of the anger raging through the cities right now
It could just be protective custody at this point.

Good news, solidarity.
Because that will stop them getting prisoners to jail (sarcasm). It just means now they'll be in national guard trucks
 

Agema

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I don't think any of those groups are trying to fight a war. I think there are protesters who want justice and rioters who want to riot and not necessarily overlap in between.
...and also career criminals who want to steal stuff whilst the police are distracted.
 

lil devils x

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Except rocks were being thrown at them at the time and the lines had already pulled back close to the station.


No the issue isn't about missing footage but that the footage exists and is allowed to be reviewed thus it makes it harder to claim police were unjustly stopping people or there was no crime being committed so it was an illegitimate stop.

Also 3rd parties do review the footage however Officer are allowed to do so to help write their reports.
If the footage is reviewed and not deleted then there isn't a problem here right? I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Reviewing the footage does not change what is on it. It is either there or it isn't. From prior to the confrontation until after it is well over, as long as nothing is missing there is nothing to worry about right?

Just reviewing it doesn't change the facts of it.
 

tippy2k2

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It could just be protective custody at this point.
Honestly, that's a huge part of my worry too. If people think what's happening is bad, it would be 100x worse if that is what they are doing. Especially as it sounds like (from what I've read on Twitter so take it with a grain of salt) that the guy actually isn't in Minnesota anymore as he essentially fled the state given the shit-show that his actions have caused.
 

ObsidianJones

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As some-one brought it up.

As much as I think the anti-lockdown protester were morons there was little to no incidents at the protests.

No-one started shit.

There was at worst the odd heated exchange of words.

In this case the protest seemingly descended into rioting within about 3 hours of them starting.

What are people expecting that people be allowed to burn the place to the ground and everyone not try to stop that?

Except cases where Body Cameras are being involved have been getting called a problem because police are allowed to re review the footage which means it's harder for people to get off by using technicalities about discrepancies in testimony

Also again they have specific demands which you laid out and the question would be if they'd accept Hillary's alternative solutions because they don't match up with the actual demands here.
Since I brought it up, I'll state I already answered it in my original text.

It took 52 days of being 'oppressed' for armed protests to start happening. We're talking of systematic abuse of a people for decades. When our parents were children. When their parents were just coming into their own, stuff like this was happening.

Simply put, you can not treat a group of people like that for generations and expect more and more incidents to go off without a hitch. To sum up, I would wager it would be fair to say that this is is water torture before, without the proliferation of cameras that document what's going on in the streets. I grew up black in the Bronx during 1980's. I remember being taught that no one would believe me. I remember being taught that people don't come here, so they believe the cops 100%. That it doesn't matter if you're innocent, because no one sees what happens, they will always trust the cops because there's no proof.

I remember feeling so scared. That anything could happen to me and because I don't have the proof necessary to defend myself, people won't believe me and I'll be arrested or harmed without any justice.

And now we have life that we have now. That everything is recorded. That doubt can exist. That the veracity of the continually truthful cops have been found wanting. That the perennial standard of my youth of "Of course he must of have done something, why would cops lie?!" has lost it's once vibrant tune.

And still nothing changed.

The Hope that this was just the fact that people didn't see what happened here in these streets was the only thing that prevented a massive uprising. The belief that all it would take is for the majority to see the actual treatment and would rise up because their fellow citizens.. no, their fellow humans are being treated in such a manner that these people would kill if it happened in their neighborhood.

And they didn't. They shrugged and said whatever. They chose sports. They chose slogans. They chose biases that made things worst for all of us. That progresses the Water Torture to Water Boarding now.

Once again. 52 days for an armed response en masse. Not for anything vile or villainous. To make sure people wouldn't get sick and we could reopen as normal. That was met with a rage that I couldn't believe. Yelling at nurses who are literally on the front line tending to their loved ones and neighbors because these protesters felt restricted and unheard.

In short, my real question is this. If the same treatment that the blacks in Minneapolis have endured for untold decades were visited upon these Michigan protesters, how long before those peaceful but armed protesters would have lead to a street by street shooting war?
 
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Revnak

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Except rocks were being thrown at them at the time and the lines had already pulled back close to the station.
Rocks compared to tear gas grenades and tracer rounds. Yes, clearly the escalation in violence was the, uh, rocks.
Edit- I know comparing this to the American Revolution is a meme at this point, but the Boston Massacre was literally people opening fire on dudes throwing rocks.
 
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Houseman

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cops were firing tracer rounds
As far as I know, tracer rounds are just actual rounds with stuff in it that makes a glow, so that you can see where the bullet went. Like, every 5th round, or the last 5 rounds in a mag might be tracer rounds.

I don't think the usage of the phrase "tracer round" is accurate here, unless you're saying that cops were actually shooting lethal bullets. I've never heard "tracer rounds" used to describe a type of non-lethal bullet.
 

Revnak

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As far as I know, tracer rounds are just actual rounds with stuff in it that makes a glow, so that you can see where the bullet went. Like, every 5th round, or the last 5 rounds in a mag might be tracer rounds.

I don't think the usage of the phrase "tracer round" is accurate here, unless you're saying that cops were actually shooting lethal bullets. I've never heard "tracer rounds" used to describe a type of non-lethal bullet.
Think that but rubber and yes they are calling them tracer rounds, point is to pick up the people who get hit by the rounds since the chemicals are hard to wash off. Problem is, they kept firing at people who weren’t doing shit, as the large number of recordings show.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Rocks compared to tear gas grenades and tracer rounds. Yes, clearly the escalation in violence was the, uh, rocks.
Oh so the Police were meant to just stand there and take it not try to disperse the crowds throwing rocks.
 
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