#1

[veloper]

What exactly is your background with regard to psychiatrics and mental health? I just graduated from a four-year nursing program and will be attending medical school shortly, so my information should be relatively current in an ever-evolving field.

Gambling addiction, sex addiction, and internet addiction will all be included in the as-yet-unpublished DSM-V (the latter two in the appendix, I believe), which will be released sometime within the next three years. The DSM-V will replace the current DSM-IV criteria that you seem to be referring to, so I can understand your confusion to a degree. I'd just like to add that these newly-recognized addictions are not a "trend," and they are not going away any time soon. They come from evidence-based research into the brain that indicates addictive behaviors alter brain chemistry in the same way that addictive substances do.

Nah, I'm just an anonymous guy with a handle, just like everybody else on an online forum. I don't put much stock in claims of expertise by other members either, not just because it's unverifiable, but mostly because the only thing that matters is the arguments themselves.

Normally I wouldn't get involved in this, but gaming addiction is part of the rhetoric of the anti-gaming lobby in the media and I hate to see it when the gaming community gives ground.

The problem isn't so much lumping other disorders in with addictions or substance dependence within psychiatry, rather it's the media who will go gaming=crack, it's now(2013) official, on us.

The lobby cannot do anything with an "impulse control disorder" or other jargon, but a broader definition of addiction is just perfect ammo. That's the power of words, when people hear "addict" they associate the word with a heroin or crack junkie.

Maybe if I get into an argument about it again in the future, I'll counter with shopping addiction, sport addiction or similar weak shit, to render the definition so broad it becomes as harmless as it will become meaningless.

 

[-Torchedini-]

Just want to drop one point.

If you become bored with the game, There is always another game. So you'll start playing that till you get bored and go on with the next game. Sounds like a vicious circle to me anyways.


And thanks for a good article doc. Loved your first one too.

 

[Syntax Error]

I highly recommend seeing Second Skin before or after reading this article. It has no ulterior motives, it just shows the effect of WoW on normal people, who happen to play it. There's the story of this one guy in there that is VERY relevant to the first letter.

 

[theSovietConnection]

I'm still not sure about the use of the word addiction here. From my understanding, the signs of addiction are not just a propensity to use the substance, but also propensity to utilise the substance in favour of more pleasurable activities and to store "stashes" of that substance for usage when you can't get to the main source.

But what about the gamer that takes every possible step to prevent from removing himself from the main source, as you say. What if a stash isn't needed because they just don't stop unless absolutely necessary, and even then there are examples of people who game themselves to death. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4137782.stm] Most people agree gambling is addictive, so can't video games be as well?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

But what about the gamer that takes every possible step to prevent from removing himself from the main source, as you say. What if a stash isn't needed because they just don't stop unless absolutely necessary, and even then there are examples of people who game themselves to death. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4137782.stm]

That isn't gaming himself to death. That's basic ignoring his body functions. People have been doing that since time immemorial. If you game past your insulin treatment, and you're diabetic, the diabetic seizure won't be caused by the game, will it?

Most people agree gambling is addictive, so can't video games be as well?

It's a different field of addiction though. Addiction primarily stems from the body needing to continue it's vice which shorts out the body. Gambling and gaming are vices, sure, but they're not addictions as much as they're the symptom of a higher mental crisis, I.E. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

If you treat gaming as an addicting substance, then you have to treat any pleasurable substance as an addicting substance, which, at the last count, included a good portion of living.

Gambling differs in that there is a specific trigger (to whit: money) which causes the rise in dopamine (the "high") and the deterioration in performance (the "low" - from losing). Gaming doesn't cover that as there is no specific trigger relevant to all addicts. Take an "addicting" game like Starcraft, for instance. What drives you is the wish to be rewarded, but unlike gambling, that wish can be completed multiple times and on multiple formats. That means it's less of a stimulus and more of a symptom of a larger dysfunction of the brain.

All of the "deaths" from gaming have been from individuals in poor health who have pushed their bodies past breaking point for the competitive element, rather than any set stimulus; that means it's a learned behaviour pattern rather than an induced behaviour pattern.

Treating the "addiction" will only remove the symptom, rather than the root cause. Our Starcraft gamer will probably be bored stiff with The Sims, but a poker addict will jump at the chance to play roulette.

Addiction is primarily a deterioration state, gaming can easily be development state - let's face it, we all play games when we're learning. What we need to treat is the OCD response that leads to game focussing, rather than the games themselves.

Like I said before, look at the "normal" individuals who imbibe dangerous amount of toxins, suffer violent mood-swings, dress up in strange ritual dress and are unable to rationalise it - just because their country is playing in a big tournament.

Cognitive therapy rather than substance therapy. Most of these people who die have already suffered from extreme cycles of stress and it may be that the game is helping them cope, rather than deteriorating their life.

 

[mkline]

I highly recommend seeing Second Skin before or after reading this article. It has no ulterior motives, it just shows the effect of WoW on normal people, who happen to play it. There's the story of this one guy in there that is VERY relevant to the first letter.

Watched this movie today. Agree it is quite relevant to the issues folks have raised in this thread. It shows people who have developed rich relationships and communities through gaming, and others who have ended up with somewhat stunted lives and even serious problems. Once again, I think its hard to characterize everyone's play as being any one thing: healthy, addictive, OCD, or anything else you might want to call it.

One thing missing from this movie--the impact of intensive gaming on younger and younger people. I see many young teenagers who get involved. Just as you would expect, some can handle it and some can not.

 

[Kalico Lynx]

To all the people staunchly in denial:

If you're trying to argue that gaming isn't addictive without having experienced it yourself there is no way you can understand the motivations and feelings of people who are addicted. Many people can drink alcohol, have sex, go to a casino or even use drugs in a recreational way but other people, due to circumstances and their life experience means that they can and do become addicted to particular activities for whatever reason. Just because there is no 'mind-altering' substance involved does not mean that the chemicals in the brain do not change. With gambling, excessive exercise and sex, there are hormones, pleasure chemicals, endorphins, adrenaline that are all produced simply from enjoyment of an activity and these can become addictive the same way alcohol, nicotine and dopamine are.

Everyone is different and something that gives pleasure to two people, such as a game, can cause one to be addicted and the other bored because the game can provide some enjoyment or other psychological benefit that a person becomes dependent on and can even abuse. It comes down to personality, self-control, emotional well-being and life circumstances. I was addicted to WoW. I would never ever even consider trying to use alcohol or drugs as an 'escape' from the problems I was experiencing at the time but gaming seems so harmless. I spent two and a half years of my life hopelessly dependent on a game because it provided me emotional support, social interaction and an escape from the responsibilities and problems of my life. Just like a substance addiction, I became irate, irrational and even filled with rage if my precious, successful characters were taken away from me because I had nothing else to stop me from facing reality. I missed family vacations, I failed subjects at university and then dropped out altogether, I lost friends and my job. But I didn't care because I still had my little slice of the WoW-verse.

Now, do not think that while I was ruining my real life that I was not aware of it. I was horribly aware of it and that is a very painful thing. How does one deal with that? Try and forget about it for a while playing the game. Forget about losing your job. Forget about family always being angry at you. Like a junkie needing a fix to escape facing reality. My family didn't know what to do and every time they spoke to me it would be about the game and how I should stop playing which would cause me to be irate.

Let's not forget that I began my addiction in depression (just like say, an alcoholic) and it certainly did not cure it. If anything it made me worse. A continuous cycle of regret, shame and escapism; I destroyed my life for WoW and so WoW became my life. I was lucky enough to eventually have the courage to quit cold turkey and let my subscription run out. I did get 'cravings' to play and I felt like I was 'missing out' on something. Even though I haven't played WoW in over three years I still have dreams in which I am playing it. I still remember in great clarity many details about the game. It's very unnerving.

My life is back on track and I'll be graduating a bachelor degree in Criminology this year with an honors degree next year. I look back on those years of my life and I don't actually remember any 'life'. All I did was WoW. It changed my personality; I became very angry all the time. If I wasn't playing WoW I didn't feel alive, it was just killing time until I could get back to an alternate reality with friends I'd never met. Now I can look back and say how silly it all was but the pain was real, the addiction was real.

Just because you can't envision yourself becoming addicted to a game doesn't mean it can't happen to other people. I can't envision myself becoming addicted to alcohol but I know it effects other people. I understand the worry behind "Breaking News: video games ruin lives" sort of things as well as the role of violence in video games but staunchly denying something that psychologists can measure and that real people experience is not going to help anyone. I still play games, even an MMO but now I know how to balance the game with my life by making sure I have everything in my life that I need so I don't try and get it out of a game.

 

[300lb. Samoan]

I can say that you might benefit from a decent shrink.

You know, most doctors would have found the very use of that word offensive and off-putting. I appreciate how accepting you are in reciprocating the vocabulary of that very moving post. I'm not in an official capacity to declare anything, but I wanted to tell you that I think you're a welcome addition to Escapist front-page. I'm looking forward to reading your column.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

To all the people staunchly in denial:

Hrrrm, not a great way to start.

Just because you can't envision yourself becoming addicted to a game doesn't mean it can't happen to other people.

Just because you believe you have doesn't mean you have been. Being a teenager is a stretch on the sanity of every last one of us here. A lot of people, and I'm not including you in this, like to exaggerate their "symptoms" into a full-blown DISEASE OF THE MIND.

A lot of doctors/psychiatrists also like to treat a DISEASE rather than just a product of the environment.

I do know a lot of people who look back on their teenage years and ask "Why did I do that?" and not remember that THEY WERE TEENAGERS. Every teen in the world has a story of hating their parents, hating themselves and being moody. Not all are addictions or illnesses. And every last one of us have been irate, distracted and stupid at sometime when the hormones take control.

 

[Vortigar]

I fully agree with Kalico_Lynx up there (despite that first sentence ).

Gaming can be addictive in the same way many other things can be, there's simply no sensible way to deny it. Banning video-games on this basis however is another debate entirely. That would mean we should ban tabacco and alcohol as well for example.

Furthermore, we live in a world where people have been diagnosed as being addicted to exercise. People who get extremely irrational if they're prohibited from running for an hour each day. Given that, can anyone claim gaming can't take the place of something like exercise for some people?


I also argue the opposite point with my mom now and again as she seems to think gaming is the worst invention of humanity. No really, she said that, not the atomic bomb or biological warfare agents or PCB's but video-games...


The_root_of_all_evil:
So are you saying that gaming can't be addicting or that a load of the current fuss about it is scaremongering or that lot's of kids like to imagine all kinds of reasons for their state of mind or are you putting questionmarks to the whole psychological field around the topic?

Or all of it at once?

Oh, nevermind, just read the preceding pages.

 

[PurpleLeafRave]

Without gaming I would be unbelievably stressed.

I'm just finishing my exam period. My parents confine me to my room and expect me to do 24 hour revision, and obviously I know I need to do work, but I need breaks also. Without the Xbox in my room, I would have no escape from stress in these situations.

 

[Fensfield]

Interesting article.. but, forgive me for saying, it seemed a little bit awkward, as if it were grabbing for what little empirical support was available or something.

Maybe it's because gaming and the psychological effects thereof are so little studied as yet (and so many studies sensationalist rather than setting out to really learn, or create useful evidence for further study), or maybe the two are less than compatible, like trying to discuss the addictive qualities of reading books - more relegated to the (still true) 'people can get addicted to anything' line than a genuine, regularly addictive substance.

We'll see, I guess - and the concept of someone putting themselves in the position of Dr. Mark here is certainly an interesting one, and one I might very likely send an E-Mail or two to myself, at some point, should I think of a good way to phrase my thoughts and queries.

.. Actually I just thought of something.

 

[darth gditch]

Very good article. I look forward to reading more about the psychology of gaming.

 

[TraderJimmy]

But what about the gamer that takes every possible step to prevent from removing himself from the main source, as you say. What if a stash isn't needed because they just don't stop unless absolutely necessary, and even then there are examples of people who game themselves to death. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4137782.stm]

That isn't gaming himself to death. That's basic ignoring his body functions. People have been doing that since time immemorial. If you game past your insulin treatment, and you're diabetic, the diabetic seizure won't be caused by the game, will it?

Most people agree gambling is addictive, so can't video games be as well?

It's a different field of addiction though. Addiction primarily stems from the body needing to continue it's vice which shorts out the body. Gambling and gaming are vices, sure, but they're not addictions as much as they're the symptom of a higher mental crisis, I.E. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

If you treat gaming as an addicting substance, then you have to treat any pleasurable substance as an addicting substance, which, at the last count, included a good portion of living.

Gambling differs in that there is a specific trigger (to whit: money) which causes the rise in dopamine (the "high") and the deterioration in performance (the "low" - from losing). Gaming doesn't cover that as there is no specific trigger relevant to all addicts. Take an "addicting" game like Starcraft, for instance. What drives you is the wish to be rewarded, but unlike gambling, that wish can be completed multiple times and on multiple formats. That means it's less of a stimulus and more of a symptom of a larger dysfunction of the brain.

All of the "deaths" from gaming have been from individuals in poor health who have pushed their bodies past breaking point for the competitive element, rather than any set stimulus; that means it's a learned behaviour pattern rather than an induced behaviour pattern.

Treating the "addiction" will only remove the symptom, rather than the root cause. Our Starcraft gamer will probably be bored stiff with The Sims, but a poker addict will jump at the chance to play roulette.

Addiction is primarily a deterioration state, gaming can easily be development state - let's face it, we all play games when we're learning. What we need to treat is the OCD response that leads to game focussing, rather than the games themselves.

Like I said before, look at the "normal" individuals who imbibe dangerous amount of toxins, suffer violent mood-swings, dress up in strange ritual dress and are unable to rationalise it - just because their country is playing in a big tournament.

Cognitive therapy rather than substance therapy. Most of these people who die have already suffered from extreme cycles of stress and it may be that the game is helping them cope, rather than deteriorating their life.

On behalf of the gamblers and casinos being...somewhat unfairly taxed at the moment;

Poker is a game of skill, not purely of chance in the same way as Roulette is. You can't get the same rush playing Roulette (Russian or otherwise) as you can from outsmarting a human opponent. You can't reeeeally lump them together in the same class. Perhaps Blackjack (with a semi-decent counting system) would be a better bet (hahahaohkillme).

OT: I really like the considered approach of the OP. Regardless of whether I agree with the argument, the article was considered and informative. I don't know enough to commit to one side or the other, and I'm happy with that at the moment - this issue is unlikely to significantly impact upon my life, after all, any legislation would only restrict MMORPGs from Korea, that emphasise grinding and promote addictive behaviour.

The argument that ensued was a little bit disgusting, with insults flying almost from the start. That helps no-one, edifies no-one, illuminates no-one.

I do wish that Godwin's Law applied instead to the first person to call someone else a sheep or some variant there-upon. It's getting more and more common, and I've seen it used to defend bogus arguments from Truthers, Birthers, Autism-MMR-link fanatics, Holocaust deniers, pro-lifers, pro-choicers - the list goes on. That doesn't mean that being independently minded, or challenging authority, is necessarily misguided, of course. It just means you don't have to be a total dickhead about it.

 

[khaimera]

Any pleasurable substance can lead to OCD around that, but that's not necessarily an addiction, rather an outlet for a mental state that's already there.

Hi, I know I'm late to this, but I feel I must remind you about the O part of OCD. Its not compulsion by itself.

The old me would have argued my points in a thread about addcition to death, but I lack the energy today. So I'll just provide some very very brief OCD info.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Any pleasurable substance can lead to OCD around that, but that's not necessarily an addiction, rather an outlet for a mental state that's already there.

Hi, I know I'm late to this, but I feel I must remind you about the O part of OCD. Its not compulsion by itself.

The old me would have argued my points in a thread about addcition to death, but I lack the energy today. So I'll just provide some very very brief OCD info.

Yeah, the sun is killing the brain cells at the moment.

I think we agree (feel free to prove me wrong if we don't) but the difference between Addiction and the OCD is the effect of the substance involved.

Addiction is an Obsessive Compulsion caused by the substance. OCD is a Obsessive Compulsion whose outlet is the substance.

Gambling, as our friend above says, isn't the actual addiction, but the gain of money is. I could have an "addiction" to Everquest, say, but not to World of Warcraft.

That means the suffering part is actually the latent OCD within me that's focussing on the game, rather than the game causing the OCD. It's a subtle difference, but I think it's a relevant one.

If you want to bring in the 10 step rule, or whatever it is, you could cure me of the "Everquest addiction", but the OCD would still be there - usually reversing the OCD to a phobia, and moving my dependency to another outlet.

By cognitive therapy, you're actually treating the latent paradigm that causes the addiction, rather than the substance, which is just a symptom.

Of the staggeringly few "addiction" deaths that have been caused against the staggeringly huge rate of people playing these games, you have to assume that the addiction rate is so low to render it meaningless.

People enjoy games because...they enjoy and learn from playing. Always have. Therefore, treating the game as an addiction is treating learning as an addiction. Something I really don't want to be cured of.

The_root_of_all_evil:
So are you saying that gaming can't be addicting or that a load of the current fuss about it is scaremongering or that lot's of kids like to imagine all kinds of reasons for their state of mind or are you putting questionmarks to the whole psychological field around the topic?

Or all of it at once?

Oh, nevermind, just read the preceding pages.

Quotes help me see things

I'm saying that treating gaming as an addiction is, for 99% of cases, the wrong way to do it. There are the obvious few who will get addicted in the same way that anything will affect certain people. Watch your mum tidying the house sometimes

It's also a bad idea to lose sight of the fact (and it's scientifically proven) that we learn more from playing than we do from simply reading. Physical experience has always been superior to theoretical experience, but in certain cases theoretical experience is all we have.

Monopoly may not teach you a lot about business management, but it teaches you a hell of a lot about statistics, human nature and social interaction. (And grabbing the oranges as soon as possible )

 

[khaimera]

Any pleasurable substance can lead to OCD around that, but that's not necessarily an addiction, rather an outlet for a mental state that's already there.

Hi, I know I'm late to this, but I feel I must remind you about the O part of OCD. Its not compulsion by itself.

The old me would have argued my points in a thread about addcition to death, but I lack the energy today. So I'll just provide some very very brief OCD info.

Yeah, the sun is killing the brain cells at the moment.

I think we agree (feel free to prove me wrong if we don't) but the difference between Addiction and the OCD is the effect of the substance involved.

Addiction is an Obsessive Compulsion caused by the substance. OCD is a Obsessive Compulsion whose outlet is the substance.

Gambling, as our friend above says, isn't the actual addiction, but the gain of money is. I could have an "addiction" to Everquest, say, but not to World of Warcraft.

That means the suffering part is actually the latent OCD within me that's focussing on the game, rather than the game causing the OCD. It's a subtle difference, but I think it's a relevant one.

If you want to bring in the 10 step rule, or whatever it is, you could cure me of the "Everquest addiction", but the OCD would still be there - usually reversing the OCD to a phobia, and moving my dependency to another outlet.

By cognitive therapy, you're actually treating the latent paradigm that causes the addiction, rather than the substance, which is just a symptom.

Of the staggeringly few "addiction" deaths that have been caused against the staggeringly huge rate of people playing these games, you have to assume that the addiction rate is so low to render it meaningless.

People enjoy games because...they enjoy and learn from playing. Always have. Therefore, treating the game as an addiction is treating learning as an addiction. Something I really don't want to be cured of.

Yeah the sun, thats it. I'll go with that one. And not the fact that my life is a mess

So let me see if I understand you correctly. You are saying the the obsessive thought is the desire to play the game. So that one obsesses about playing the game, and then plays the game to alleviate said thought?

I understand OCD like this (I've attended all day seminars on the topic of OCD). Its a neurological disease in which one has repeated obsessive thoughts over which they have no control. Interestingly enough, OCD is very related to Tourettes, but teh research is in early stages. The thoughts are often of a certain type (fear of harming others, "evil" thoughts, others I can't think of). The compulsions are then performed as a distraction method but also becuase peopel delude themslves into thinking that the compulsions directly lower the probability of said thought becoming true.

The compulsions, or rituals, are generally not enjoyed at all, unlike most addictive behaviors which start off enjoyable. The person also recognizes that the behavior makes no sense. Like "How does flipping a light switch 20 times protect my son from getting into a car accident.

CBT then comes in to help the client leanr to handle the obsessive thought so that the compulsion is no longer needed.

I think the main differnce between the two is that with addiction, the thought and the behavior are correlated highly, where as with OCD, they are not at all. The behavior is used solely to deal with an obsessive thought, not because the behavior is reinforcing in its own right.

What a mouthful. I apologize in advance for spelling errors, I don't have spell check at work.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

So let me see if I understand you correctly. You are saying the the obsessive thought is the desire to play the game. So that one obsesses about playing the game, and then plays the game to alleviate said thought?

Mostly, yes. There's obviously the few that devolve totally, but that's usually a symptom of a far-greater problem.

The compulsions are then performed as a distraction method but also because people delude themselves into thinking that the compulsions directly lower the probability of said thought becoming true.

The compulsions, or rituals, are generally not enjoyed at all, unlike most addictive behaviors which start off enjoyable. The person also recognizes that the behavior makes no sense. Like "How does flipping a light switch 20 times protect my son from getting into a car accident.

Does the word "grinding" come to mind here?

CBT then comes in to help the client leanr to handle the obsessive thought so that the compulsion is no longer needed.

More difficult here. CBT comes in to understand why the thought appears in the first place, and attempts to pacify that thought.

What a mouthful. I apologize in advance for spelling errors, I don't have spell check at work.

S'ok, your point came across well.

 

[khaimera]

So let me see if I understand you correctly. You are saying the the obsessive thought is the desire to play the game. So that one obsesses about playing the game, and then plays the game to alleviate said thought?

Mostly, yes. There's obviously the few that devolve totally, but that's usually a symptom of a far-greater problem.

The compulsions are then performed as a distraction method but also because people delude themselves into thinking that the compulsions directly lower the probability of said thought becoming true.

The compulsions, or rituals, are generally not enjoyed at all, unlike most addictive behaviors which start off enjoyable. The person also recognizes that the behavior makes no sense. Like "How does flipping a light switch 20 times protect my son from getting into a car accident.

Does the word "grinding" come to mind here?

Sort of, except that grinding has a logical consequence or purpose to it. OCD, not so much.

CBT then comes in to help the client leanr to handle the obsessive thought so that the compulsion is no longer needed.

More difficult here. CBT comes in to understand why the thought appears in the first place, and attempts to pacify that thought.
I disagree totally on this one. The "why" the thought is there is always a combination of learned behavior and beliefs adopted from childhood or adult experiences. CBT does not concern itself with why, thats one of its main differences form odler more tradional forms of therpay. CBT asks if the thought is useful or rational, and then works to replace the thought with a new one, which is then repated until its adopted fully.

What a mouthful. I apologize in advance for spelling errors, I don't have spell check at work.

S'ok, your point came across well.

Thanks, I had hoped so. Now you see why I was hesitatnt to get into this thread. I knew that once I started I would go on forever.
As you can see my skill in splitting up quotes is weak, so I just used bold type.

 

[Necromancer1991]

Look, the effect WoW has on ones mind is UNIQUE TO THEM, just because one guys loses his job, another is inspired to go to college, or another to do nothing it has less to due with the game and more to our psychological reaction to it, that said it can have negative effects on the right person.