15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[RN7]

Well...he did punch him in the back of the head. Maybe that would warrant, hm, 7-8 stabs. 9 if you're from Detroit. This is provided that the fatal stabs are also provided in this group.

 

[Denamic]

I'm glad he fought back against the bully. But stabbing him 11 times? That's just a little too much...

I agree.
4 or 5 times would have been enough.
Still, I do not mourn the 'loss'.

 

[getofish]

after 6 years of dealing with one bully when i finally snapped i didn't expect to smash his head into the lunchroom floor so many times and then snap his arm. but i did. Bullies are scum in my opinion and if no one else is going to help you help yourself.

how ever the 11 times, i still say the kid didnt over react, i think an overreaction would have been if people had to pull him off the guy after he stabbed him 20 or more times where the guy clearly dead and hes still stabbing just because it feels good.


you have to wonder though what were the bullies "friends" doing that were with him after all this started.

 

[Doclector]

It was self defence. Bullies can't help it. It's in their nature to harm, their mind contains nothing else. The inevitable conclusion was that either it continued long and harsh enough to coax the kid into suicide, or, if the bully got tired of waiting, he'd kill him himself.

Sure, he should've just beat the worthless scumbag to within an inch of his life, and let him live on knowing he was beaten by his "victim", in many ways, to the mind of a bully, far worse than killing him, but I've never felt any mercy for bullies, everything they get, they deserve, especially as long as both school faculties and the law continue to be ignorant of this menace, which gives the victims practically no other choice but to take things into their own hands.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

EDIT: I spoke out of reasoning, this kid should be hanged or shot or stabbed. He is a fucking hazard to the development of a civilized world, and as it seems LOTS of the Escapist thinks that this isn't murder. IT IS, One argument seems to be that adrenaline cause 11 stabbings, well this kid was being bullied he wasn't strong enough to push through human flesh with a knife fast enough to regret his choices. If I were his parents I would go to the late-abortion clinic immediately.

Surely you must be trolling to try and incite a reaction. I'm going to choose to believe that just so I don't have to think about someone as disturbed as you living in the same world as me.

Basically, if you had your way, the bullies (the people who started this whole incident by tormenting and assaulting another human) would be alive and the victim would be dead.

That's just... so utterly messed up. I have no words, really.

Yeah, I was tired and got mad as shit at the fact that the government let this guy get away, but this kid premeditated stabbing the guy. So that makes him a goddamned murderer, it is even worse when you get posts like "I WAS BULLIED ONCE, WAY TO GO, KID!", and please read every point on there beside the first and last sentences, because they're mostly logical and not just me raging in to the keyboard. But you guys seem to forget that he killed someone, who wasn't even an adult, and that's just not right. But sorry, I was so goddamned mad at this kid and the people who supported him, I wanted to make everyone else mad, hence the abortion comment.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

Snip

Snip

Yeah, sorry, I barely remember writing that post, but I do remember being going apeshit on internet. I mostly said what was up there to make people who didn't agree with me mad. Sorry, I just got so mad at the "BULLIES ARE SCUM, THEY ALL DESERVE TO DIE!" comments that I lashed out at the entire internet. And I regret the more messed up things I said, but I'm not going to remove it, because I don't feel the need to.
This is a Formal Apology to The Internet.

 

[Croix Sinistre]

I agree with a lot of the defense for the victim here, and I have only one thing to say:

11 stab wounds sounds excessive when you first hear it. The whole psychological side of life endangered combat is very true, however I am willing to bet these stab wounds aren't all these methodically placed, fully penetrated wounds. Working in a hospital where I've seen many patients who have been stabbed, I've learned that even the littlest nick from a blade is medically and legally considered a "stab wound".

 

[BrassButtons]

I get bullied a lot, and if I can just let it go, why can't others?

Not all cases of bullying are equal. This fight started with Jorge being punched in that back of the head--that could have killed him. If he hadn't been able to fight back they may have beaten him to death (even if they didn't intend to). Just because your bullying hasn't gotten to the point where your life is in danger doesn't mean that isn't the case for other people.

I think all parties in this case are pretty stupid, most especially the judge. People need to learn that while bullies won't listen to reason, they will get bored and go away if you don't react.

Except in the cases where they don't, and the victim winds up dead. Again, just because you've never been in a situation like that doesn't mean others haven't or that it can't happen.

It's not hard to tolerate bullying

It may not be hard for you, but that doesn't mean it isn't hard for anyone. The victims who have committed suicide certainly didn't find it easy to tolerate being bullied.

 

[bluegate]

Well he was right to act in self defence, but 11 times just tells me this was some sort of revenge killing.

this is why people really should intervene with bullies rather than ignoring it, it aint always going to be the victim of the bully who dies, sometimes the bullies will be killed.

I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it like this but, the way you wrote that sentence , one could read it as if you were saying that it is ok for the victim to die but it would be horrible were the bully to die.


As for the story, it kinda sounds alright. Stabbing someone 11 times might sound excessive, but you don't know how long the kid was bullied, if it was years upon years of suppressed anger suddenly flaring up and exploding in a stabbing rage fit, then I think that 11 times is pretty modest.

As for people going on about him having a knife on him, ever thought about why he would carry a knife? I doubt that he was carrying it with the intent to kill someone that day, I think that he had it on him to try and ward off the bullies, "don't come any closer, I have a knife", kind of thing.

 

[Dystopia]

It takes just a few seconds to stab someone 12 times, this doesn't sound pre-meditated at all. Also, he tried to escape the situation several times, for example getting off the bus a few stops early, then trying to walk away from the fight. He was pushed too far and probably felt he couldn't get away.

So yeah, while I wouldn't have done what he did, I can understand why he did it and why he was let off.

 

[Timberwolf0924]

There's a lott hate here. How many if you wusses would've just stood there and taken the beaten. There were many other students, and I bet half of them would've jumped in after the Bully got the kid on the ground and started kicking him.

I feel for the kid, but he had the right to defend himself. Any parent who think "oh my kid would never bully!" are liars. I had a bully in Highschool, I was a freshman and he was a junior. We were about the same size so when it came down to it, I dunked him into teh trash and rolled him down a flight a stairs #truestory.

Now I don't condone stabbing, but if it's your life or theirs, then I'll stab, shoot, burn, run over, chainsaw, hacksaw, and machete a gaggle of people to survive. It's basic human nature.

 

[Spy_Guy]

OMG! 11 times!?

It's like in that other thread where people are shocked at the armed kid being shot three times. Same thing applies for the gun as it does with the knife.

You shoot until they stop moving, and you stab until they stop moving, easy.

With regards to people going "Ooooh, this could not have been self-defense", I would like to say that the kid did attempt to avoid conflict, by getting off the bus, prior to the incident, but was followed and attacked first.

So, after he got off, he did not pounce his bully and started stabbing, he was moving away, based on being punched in the back of the head. Then it's likely he stumbled, and feeling threatened by the bully and his friends, pulled the knife and counterattacked.

OMG! This kid should be charged with murder!

I don't know whether or not you're well-versed in law, or whether or not murder carries a different meaning in the US.
It didn't sound like the kid was planning to kill the bully, does it?

At most, it would probably be manslaughter.

Finally, I must say I really like the 'Stand your ground' law, because it protects the victim of the assault in cases like this.
Imagine what it would be like to get locked up for six years, just because you decided to defend yourself at all costs, instead of taking a beating.

How can you all calling for legal repercussions justify this?

 

[FarleShadow]

You quote your personal beliefs like they were law. Since your words dont sound like they are written in legalese I am going to guess they are quoting a law pulled from your ass.

Dylan was stabbed after Jorge made repeated attempts to avoid him. Dylan and 4-5 other assailants chased down and began the attack by punching Jorge in the back of the head, a potentially leathal blow unto itself. Only a few minor details in this incident would need to be changed and Jorge would be dead either from an "accidental" blow to the head or by suicide, and you would be screaming "Why?! Why do they let this sort of thing happen in America!?"

Bullying someone to this degree is DEADLY SERIOUS, maybe people wont wake up to this fact until it's clear that bullies fall under the same level of threat as their victims. Too many times the system has failed for the victim of bullies. The article was not entirely clear but I would bet a substantial sum of money that this wasnt the 1st time Dylan picked on Jorge or any number of other "weak" students.

I was going to quote the laws of my state, Arizona, but it proved to be a convoluted and complicated mess that would have filled 2 pages or more. Suffice it to say, this case could have been ruled the same way in this state. If I was on the jury I would have made DAMN SURE Jorge was given nothing more than a manslaughter charge and avoided any form of jail where he would have been locked up with even more bullies and fewer options to defend himself.

Growing up I was bullied/picked on, but to a relatively minor degree. Being socially awkward and 6'3" 200+ lbs I could have easily been a bully myself. Instead, I defended my friends and even kids I didnt know from other bullies. I guarantee that if I faced simular situations as some of these extreme cases of bullying, there would be kids at the very least in the hospital with the strong possibility of permament injury to (but not limited to) the eyes, limbs, fingers, ribs, and/or genitals.

I carried a knife at school. I didnt give a sh*t if it was legal or not. It probably wasnt since it was double bladed and slightly over 3". The only time it was taken out and used was to cut duct tape while I was building a set in the theatre. However, if I found myself cornered by 4-5 kids that were older and (somehow) bigger than me, you can bet your ass I would have taken it out, and if that didnt cause them to back off, some of them would've ended up stabbed and possibly dead. And I would not have bothered to count how many times I stabbed anyone. That's the coroner's job.

There is no excuse on this green Earth to allow someone to physically assault you the way Dylan was assaulting Jorge. Neither you nor I at this point know the extent to which Jorge persued proper channels to get Dylan to stop. Considering that a judge ruled in Jorge's favor should say something...

Perhaps you and all the other bully-apologists are stuck on the headline "15 year old stabs bully 11 times and gets away with it"

Perhaps the headline "Gang of five 16 year olds corner and assault a 14 year old boy. One dies from stab wounds made in self-defence." wouldnt have caused you to bat a single eyelash. Then again, a headline like that wouldnt sell newspapers either.

'Bully-apologists' 'I carried a knife'

I'm so sorry, but what you're stretching every fiber of law and 'morality' to do is justify your particular idea that murder is totally acceptable. And you'd do it if you felt threatened and hey, you were bullied! You carried a knife!

"Oh but if he got killed by an accidental punch, you'd be..." No I wouldn't. I wouldn't even bother commenting if the kid had decided to pack bat or a knuckleduster, or any other quasi-defense weapon. But a knife, under ANY utilisation, has the potential to cause an immediate LETHAL injury.

But then, you're going to complain that the bully 'Deserves' to die. A view so disturbing that I'm shocked you can pretend any justification at all.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

This kid needs help not just being thrown in jail for years. Bullying is bad I know and standing up to them is crazy, you just get the shit beat out of you buy them and their friends. I'm not saying killing him was the right thing to do but I understand why he did it and I think going to a psychologist and community service would be better for this kid in the long run over just puttung him in jail.

 

[MartianWarMachine]

...I can't seem to get what I want to say out of my head and into this box...

Stuff like "I wish we had that law up here", "I wish I'd thought of that", and "This makes me happy"

The bully got what he deserved, and there's nothing that anyone can say or do to make me think otherwise.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

As much as I can sympathize with the kid, this is just fucking retarded. Hell, I was a victim of bullying in High School, sure it's not fun but it's not something you should stab someone over. If it's getting to you that fucking much just man up and fight back. As I said, I was bullied at school by some asshole, one day he pissed me off so much I had just had enough. I waited after school and as soon as I saw him coming out the doors I just ran at him and started punching him until a teacher ran out and grabbed me off him, he never said or did anything to me again because he knew I wasn't as helpless as he thought.

This judge is fucking awful. Bullying is a common thing, you could even say it's just a part of school, a part of growing up, it's that common. Murder is a fucking crime and in self defence or not bullying is no excuse to take someones life.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

He should be charged with something, but perhaps under diminished responsibility, since he clearly was being psychologically harmed by this person. I thought self-defense extends only to the precise moment / event in which someone died, i.e., if someone goes to kill me and I beat them to death then that is self-defense...

 

[Vegosiux]

You obviously weren't seriously bullied then... Or maybe you're a girl, perhaps girls internalise this stuff differently. I remember wanting to do very violent things to the bullies at my school.

Well thank you, tell me something else about myself that you know and I don't?

 

[dyre]

OMG! This kid should be charged with murder!

I don't know whether or not you're well-versed in law, or whether or not murder carries a different meaning in the US.
It didn't sound like the kid was planning to kill the bully, does it?

At most, it would probably be manslaughter.

Finally, I must say I really like the 'Stand your ground' law, because it protects the victim of the assault in cases like this.
Imagine what it would be like to get locked up for six years, just because you decided to defend yourself at all costs, instead of taking a beating.

How can you all calling for legal repercussions justify this?

We've got second degree murder (killing someone in a moment of passion, not premeditated), which I suppose if your version of "manslaughter."

"Stand your ground" is a decent idea, certainly better than the "duty-to-retreat" clause we have here in New Jersey, but it really ought to be proportional force. Attacking someone with a knife with the intent to kill is not a proportional response to someone smacking you upside the head with the intent to bully :|

 

[mike1921]

"The kid brought the knife to school with the intent to use it on the guy who was bullying him."

Show proof.

I am totally in favor of the kid here but isn't it kind of obvious? Like a court room wouldn't be able to operate under this assumption but really. The odds are he had it because he knew he was in danger and may have had to use it to defend himself. Pretty simple

"So with the limited amount of information we have it seems to me like the kid brought a knife to school to use on the bully. That really seems like it was premeditated."

And *I* am the ridiculous one? So, what you're saying here is that the mere fact he brought a *very small knife* to school equals automatically a plan to use it on someone? Ironically enough, I have carried a pocket knife or multitool for the last 25 years, and I haven't stabbed anyone with it. Actually, I've cut *myself* with it while using it, if that counts.

I don't get why you're so hard pressed on defending the kid not having any plans to use the thing in self defense. People are allowed to carry guns for self defense and no one would argue that shooting a guy running at you with a knife isn't self defense. He was bullied, he probably got beat up by that scumbag before, he probably considered a worst case scenario. I know I sure as hell would.