15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[2012 Wont Happen]

One less asshole is in the world and a good person got off. That's justice y'all.

A child got stabbed to death and you're talking in terms of being happy he's been killed?

The world is a better place without him. Very sad event on a personal level. Net gain on an emotionally disconnected level.

 

[jimbob123432]

I still stick with my statement of "don't grab anything" unless the assailant(s) themselves have a weapon . Your opponent may feel threatened by it and, because they don't want to back down, they may escalate.

I take more of the "weapon as deterrent" method. If someone is targeting you, it's usually because they believe they have an advantage. And they're probably right, since they're deciding the terms of engagement... unless you change the terms. But, like any tool, the weapon has a job -- you use it to create your opening for escape.

Personally, I find knives to be one of the worst. You have to be in too close to use it, and there's too much danger of it being turned against you. Any good self-defense weapon allows you to keep your opponent at a distance. Swing a club, and they'll step back, and if they manage to get it away from you in a close-up scuffle, it's of limited use unless they get some distance on you (in which case you have your opening).

But another thing to keep in mind is that having superior numbers is also a "weapon" your assailant may have on you. A group of people threatening you has already escalated things to a place that threatens death or serious bodily harm. A weapon may be the only chance of getting out of there at all.

But, with all things, it depends on the circumstances. In a case where the assailant's goal is just to "get in a fight with you," yes, a weapon can unnecessarily escalate things. But in a case where they mean to truly harm, possibly even kill you, you're under no obligation to allow them to decide the terms of engagement, and you have no reason to fight fair.

Eh, to each his own then. I'm confident in my unarmed skills enough not to require a weapon, but I can see how, in this situation, a weapon may be able to scare off an assailant. It does really depend on the circumstances.

 

[Deadman Walkin]

I don't like either sides of this story. I can see how after years of dealing with it he would snap and the kid did try and avoid confrontation, but I can't see stabbing your tormentor 11 times as something to be justified. I wouldn't charge the kid but I would sentence him to psychiatric therapy of some sorts. He obviously wasn't doing too well.

 

[kyoodle]

That's fine, it's what should happen to all bullies.

It's weird some people seem to understand the stabbing but not the number of times, you can see he's been abused enough to stab someone but then expect him to be calm and restrained once it's happened.

 

[Ice Car]

The only reason half of you are moaning about it is because of the country it happened in.

You're kidding right?

 

[LadyRhian]

As someone who was bullied throughout my school years, I have no sympathy for the dead bully. For the bully's family insofar as someone that they loved is dead. But... they have to realize that if their son hadn't been a bully, he wouldn't be dead. For that, they take some of the blame for not realizing it, and not stopping it.

I hope the kid who stabbed the bully gets the counseling he needs to get over what happened. Sadly, too many bullies don't stop bullying until their victims stop them, and authorities and school officials do nothing to stop them. Sometimes, I think that the best way would be to make the bullies responsible for the health and wellbeing of the bullied. "You'd better hope nothing happens to this kid, because if it does, we are holding you responsible."

I have no idea if that would work, but it would make the bullies have to look out for their victims.

As for me, I'm female, and I got into 5 fights in High School. They'd start it, I'd finish it. All except for that last one- kid kicked me in the back in Gym class, we had a verbal confrontation, and she went for my throat. I. being taller and stronger, grabbed the front of her sweater, twisted my hand in it, and held her against the wall while she called me every nasty name in the book and scratched the hell out of my arm with her nail-claws (2 inch nails). I got excused from Gym class for the rest of the year, and I was happy with that result.

 

[an874]

Honestly I have no sympathy at all for the bully, for his family yes, but not for him. Witnesses said that the kid who did the stabbing had made it clear to the bully that he had a weapon, but like most bullies the older boy did not leave well enough alone. If he could do that, he probably wouldn't be a bully to begin with, and this younger kid had likely never been successful at standing up for himself before. Stabbing was a bit extreme but, no one was helping the bullied kid (why else would he take such an extreme measure), so of course there was a chance he would eventually just deal with himself by hurting the other person or hurting himself as was the case in with another bullying story from 2009 where a girl hung herself over her bullying. This stuff can take the kind psychological toll that would drive someone to this. I used to be bullied pretty badly many years ago when I was in the 6th grade and used to think about doing this exact thing to my tormenters, and it's entirely possible that the only thing that stopped me was when a couple of people finally stood up for me towards the end of the year. What people should be thinking about is how to stop this from happening again, instead of trying to punish a kid who was trying to defend himself in the only way he felt he could.

 

[NrthBlood]

As someone who has been bullied to that extent i have to honestly say That bully had it coming, u can all say he shouldn't of killed him or he shouldn't of stubbed him that many times, until you are put in that poor kids shoes you'll never understand how the rage can just build until you just snap and not give a flying fuck anymore, if i was the judge i would of thrown it out the door as well

 

[Grant Hobba]

For those who don't know, the guy's name is Jorge Saavedra. Apparently he was being bullied by a dude named Dylan Nuno. He got so fed up with the constant bullying he received from Dylan and his gang that he ended up stabbing Dylan in the chest eleven times at a buss stop. The judge dismissed all charges brought up against him, saying it was all in self defense.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03/collier-judge-upholds-stand-your-ground-defense-ca/?partn


NAPLES - A 15-year-old who fatally stabbed his school mate will no longer face criminal prosecution.

A judges ruling, made public Tuesday, granted a motion to dismiss the second-degree murder charge against Jorge Saavedra in the death of 16-year-old Dylan Nuno on the grounds that he acted in self-defense under Florida?s ?Stand Your Ground? law. The State Attorney?s Office has indicated that it will not appeal the ruling.

Nunos family and friends criticized Collier County Circuit Judge Lauren Brodie?s decision, calling it ?unbelievable? and ?heartbreaking.

Saavedra, who was 14 at the time of the stabbing, was charged as a juvenile. If found guilty, the former Palmetto Ridge High student would have been released by the age of 21.

Brodies ruling concluded that Saavadra, who said he was bullied and tried avoid a fight with Nuno, did not act unlawfully. She added that Saavadra had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.

Brodie based her decision this week on the findings from a two-day December hearing, during which students who witnessed the events Jan. 24, 2011, testified that several teens announced the fight on the bus, and Saavedra got off several stops early in Golden Gate Estates. Saavedra showed a pocket knife to two teens on the bus that afternoon.

In a nine-page document released Tuesday by the State Attorney?s Office, Brodie stated that by getting off the bus several stops before the location where the fight was to happen, Saavedra ?demonstrated that, with or without a knife, (he) had no desire to fight with Dylan Nuno.?

Accompanied by several students, Dylan Nuno, a junior, followed Saavedra, a freshman, off the bus. He then punched him in the back of the head, according to court documents and testimony.

Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart.

In her decision, signed Dec. 30, 2011, the judge said Saavedra had ?no duty to retreat? and was ?legally entitled to meet force with force, even deadly force.?

Prosecutors will not be appealing the case, a move that upset Dylan Nunos family and friends.

I think this is good.

another dead fuck wit.

If you want to pick on someone and you get your own medicine ... I have no sympathy and think it is mere fatal poetic justice.

 

[SextusMaximus]

I sympathise. Self defence is self defence, deadly, excessive maybe? Necessary.

 

[deadish]

Maybe he panicked, or maybe he did it out of revenge, or maybe it was plain self-defense because the bully won't stop hitting him (adrenaline suppresses pain; unlike what you see in the movies people don't just immediately drop dead when they get shot or stabbed in non-vital spots).

Regardless, I think it's about time we (both adults and children) internalize the fact that when we constantly torment and socially humiliate / ostracize a person, their mental stability slowly but surely goes down hill and that when these people finally snap, someone is going to get hurt - either the victim themselves, their love ones (when they take it out on them) or the bully (when the victim decides enough is enough and feel they have nothing to lose anymore; if he is going to hell, he is taking his tormentors with him).

It's been more than 10 years since Columbine, it appears we have learned nothing.

PS: Those of you telling people to "stand up for yourself", to "fight back" and they will stop picking on you. Understand that not everyone has the mental fortitude or physical capability to do so.

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

i have NO sympathy for bullies. NONE. so im with the kid. hell i'd give him a good job and pat on the back.

 

[rob_simple]

I can sympathise with the guy, but at the end of the day he's going to have to live the rest of his life knowing that he killed someone; whether they deserved it or not.

It's kind of worrying how many of these vigilante justice stories are springing up lately.

 

[Rottweiler]

I'm saying it's not hard to pick out a non-vital area when all your opponent has is his hands and feet to fight with. sure you might get punched once or twice but that way the other kid wouldn't have died. And don't you think the other kid stopped fighting back and tried to get away after being stabbed a couple of times? and no he will not flee the kid will be thinking "oh crap i've just been stabbed" and probably pass out from shock.

Okay this has been said several times, along with people questioning the 'stabbed 11 times'.

Last point first: there were multiple witnesses to the event. *Not one* seems to have seen Nuno surrender, attempt to flee, or in fact do anything but physically assault Saavedra. In fact, Nuno has several co-bullies present with him, and so far as my research has turned up *they* didn't witness anything of the kind either. So, until we can get some kind of evidence, let's not say 'he would have stopped fighting back' or 'tried to get away'. No one- not even Nuno's friends- have stated anything of the kind, and they would be the first to say so if they were defending their buddy who got stabbed.

Of note, the witnesses *definitely* saw Nuno brutally assault Saavedra before being stabbed.


Second- and if I have to I'll get as many links as I need to- *stab wounds are many times relatively painless and easily missed/ignored in the heat of a fight*. Seriously, this is medically proven. I admit, I have more experience than most (having been stabbed) but this is, again, medically proven- especially when the knife is small.

 

[Rottweiler]

Wow, here it is: on wikipedia, Category:Survivors of stabbing.

50-Cent:He survived a stabbing...and survived *being shot 9 times*. Hell, if someone can be shot 9 times, exactly how much more lethal is a pocket knife???

Arn Anderson: In 1993, Anderson was involved in a brutal stabbing incident during a WCW tour of Europe. On October 26, 1993, in Blackburn, Lancashire, Anderson and Sid Eudy were involved in an argument at a hotel bar. After being sent to their rooms by security chief Doug Dillinger, Eudy later attacked Anderson with a chair leg. A pair of safety scissors was introduced into the brawl by one of the participants, with Eudy receiving four stab wounds and Anderson receiving twenty, losing a pint and a half of blood. The fight was broken up by WCW wrestler Too Cold Scorpio, who was credited with saving Anderson's life. Neither man pressed charges against the other, and British police declined to do so since both men were leaving the country. Eudy was later fired over the incident.[3]
*STABBED 20 TIMES AND SURVIVED*

I won't quote the rest, but that Wiki page alone has 55 examples of people (some of the pages list multiple people) who survived being stabbed multiple times.

So, while I am no 'expert on stabbing' as one poster accused, a simple search of Wikipedia shows that there are tons of examples of people surviving in at least one case twenty (20) stab wounds. This seems to suggest that saying 'oh after a single stab the attacker surely stopped fighting, which makes Saavedra the bad guy because he kept on stabbing'. I sincerely doubt Nuno even felt most of the stabs and the ones he did probably only made him angrier.

Historical examples of people who were stabbed *and didn't even know it until they died*?

"After being attacked and stabbed, empress Elisabeth of Austria boarded a ship, unaware of the severity of her condition as consequence of an acute stress reaction. Bleeding to death from a puncture wound to the heart, Elisabeth's last words were, "What happened to me?"

Yep, historically documented- stabbed in the heart, this lady went to a ship and *then* bled to death, completely unaware of it.

People, let's argue this from a factual presentation. It's all out on the web if you look for it, I'm not 'pulling things out of my ass'.

 

[Funkysandwich]

I hope at least the kid goes through some sort of counseling or something. Killing another person at 14 would probably not benefit your mental health.

 

[Dastardly]

I thought the exact same way, landed me 2.5 years.
If you carry a knife on your person with the intent of using it against a person (regardless of whether that purpose is self-defence) then you are legally in the wrong (in the uk).
Numbers apparently don't count (I was up alone against 5 when I was attacked and beaten to the ground before getting up and pulling the knife).

And although I thought it might create an opening to escape it turns out all I could do was back off with them following at a 3 meter distance shouting "he's got a knife".
That was until one of them said "He's not got the guts to use it" and rushed me.

Whatever you might think, the law is not on your side in the uk. I got 2.5 years and the other guy was a few mm from having a severed femoral artery.

I think what happened to you is an absolute tragedy. No one should have to be forced to wait until after a group of thugs has de-humanized them to be able to do something, just because some politician wants to feel huggy-huggy-rainbows about weapon laws.

While it may not be legally true in the UK, I believe it is fundamentally true that you should be able to use whatever is at your disposal to defend yourself when attacked. And the law should side with you. It should be the burden of the attackers' lawyers to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you did something wrong first. And if not, the law should come down on them.

Self-defense laws like the UK apparently has don't deal in reality, they deal in high concept. Life or death situations need to be dealt with realistically.

1. Knives (while not the best self-defense method) have a lot of uses. Carrying one does not mean malicious intent. Most people aren't criminals and murderers, so assuming they are is enacting a "Guilty Until Proven Innocent" legal system.

2. Victims can rarely be protected by the police. The police can only get there after the damage is done. No one should have to die, or risk death, just to prove they were being attacked.

3. As I mentioned, most people aren't criminals. But those that are criminals may have multiple victims. Better to let one person violate the "rights" of this demonstrated criminal, than to let this criminal trample the rights of several people.

4. There is one place in America where we have a policy that, often, both people involved in a fight should be punished at least a little (because there's nearly always someone nearby that could have intervened). And there is also one place in America where we adopt the idea that "Because one person can misuse this tool, no one is allowed to have it -- guilty until proven innocent" approach. And that's in schools. For children. No one should have to live under a government that treats them like a child after abandoning them to deal with an adult reality (and punishes them like an adult, too).

I'm sorry for what happened to you. I hope some citizens stood up for you, even if it didn't amount to much. I also hope other people understand that this is exactly why America has the laws it does -- we're not death-happy Gun Nuts, or any of the popular representations. We just believe people have the right not to be victims, and victims have the right not to be punished for refusing to go quietly.