15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[electric_warrior]

Sounds to me like cut and dried self-defence

I mean if someone attacks you they then cannot ***** about getting stabbed, especially if they themselves has a knife on them

Maybe he should be charged with carrying a concealed weapon, but I'm glad the murder aspect was dropped

Also, even if eleven was excessive, any number of stab wounds could be fatal and, actually, the frenzied, unplanned nature of the stabbings suggests to me desperation in the heat of the moment

Unless there's more to this case that doesn't meet the eye, justice has been served and the judge has set down a good message: we are not willing to protect the aggressor

 

[A.A.K]

Hmm...
I know I've already posted here but I've now got a clear moment and thought.

I stand on this in multiple ways. I was bullied horrendously, I help others out of their bullying by teaching them martial arts - both ins and outs. Mentally and physically, and let them make their own decision.
I have been in knife fights, gang fights and my adrenal glands are lame, so rather than put out a 7.2/7.3, I'm putting out a 9.3. - I'm not sure what they're rating, but that's the results of my blood test.

1. 11 times was more than enough to scare off the bully nd his chumps yes BUT - in a tense and aggressive situation, which after group beatings and prolonged bullying, this becomes frequent - you aren't able to distinguish logic from "necessity" or instinct.
2. When the confrontation starts, and the adrenaline kicks in - the average person really can't count. Panic, fear and tunnel vision cause more damage than trained fighters.
3. Whilst I personally believe that the bully did deserve a good beating, his death is unpleasant, but people need to die. Some serve a greater purpose dead than they do alive, and this prick will do much more good now than before, it's unfortunate but just how it plays out in my head. He aggressively bullied people, and now because of his death - people are standing back and looking at the situation. Hence these last 13 pages of conversation for example. <- I'm just running off what I know, the bully could have been a saint down at the homeless shelter, great - but I have no knowledge of such.
(I don't follow any faith you can put a name to for all the people stuck on my 'purpose' point.)
and 4. You shouldn't be so quick to assume this kid got no punishment. He got no gaol time or what not, but using a knife on people - and killing people - is traumatic.
I've been in 3 knife fights. Not some grand tale nor am I a knives master, and simply - I'm never - EVER - going to forget the outcome and what happened.
That psychological damage really should be taken into account.

I can understand that the victims families will be upset and that's bad and such, but I still feel no sympathy to the bully.
The circle of blood is simple - Violence begets Retribution. Retribution begets Violence.

 

[GeneWard]

Shit like this makes me lose a little faith in humanity. Why do people feel the need to hurt others, man? I get bullied a lot, and if I can just let it go, why can't others? I think all parties in this case are pretty stupid, most especially the judge. People need to learn that while bullies won't listen to reason, they will get bored and go away if you don't react. And by the reactions of the escapist community, too many of you guys have a bloodlust, man. It's not hard to tolerate bullying, even when it's on all levels at once. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. That bully could have grown up to do great things. He could have been a doctor, or a relief worker, or a soldier. But now that won't happen. We've all done things we regret, but who here is going to say that that kid wouldn't have regretted his actions later in life? That he wouldn't have done everything he could to make it right, knowing that he never could? I didn't think so. Bullies are not equivalent to the fucking SS, and you should probably think about that.

 

[Phenakist]

As an ex "serious" bully victim through my entire 'school' career, Primary school - 5th year and for our non Uk readers 'Elementary school through middle school', frankly I cheer for the guy for getting away with it, there were times I wished I could have done that.

However now I've grown up, it's a tad tasteless, given that the bully's family get no sort of closure other than "your son was a bully and it got him killed, he will be remembered as 'that BULLY who got stabbed'". However I think they were right with the "got off early and demonstrated not wanting to fight" that was pretty key in the defence...

Overall, let it be an example, preferably not have to happen again, and if it does, some minor punishment.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

A 16 year old kid who was old enough to know better.

He did a stupid thing, and ended up paying a very heavy price for it. That's life sometimes. I have no sympathy for him - sorry, but that's just how it is. I'm not devoid of empathy or compassion, but I also put a high stock in personal responsibility.

Should he have died over a school-age assault where he was the perpetrator? Of course not. Am I going to feel sorry for him? Nope.

I feel sorry for his parents and family, but I have zero sympathy for him.

This is exactly my thinking on the matter.

Second, why a knife, couldn't he have just battered him for a bit with a bat or something?

because a bat doesn't fit in your pocket, and generally speaking they probably wouldn't let you into school or on the bus carrying a visible bludgeoning object like a bat.

So true, and at least in my area, it has been a long time since kids have been able to bring their own sports equipment to school.

I remember 15 years ago or so when I was in sixth grade in elementary school(no such thing as middle school in my area at the time, 7th and 8th made up junior high), I and several other classmates decided that we wanted to play baseball out on the field that was on the big kid side of the grounds. For a couple weeks we had fun, until one day somebody got hit with a baseball and got mildly hurt. So after that, nobody was allowed to bring baseball equipment to school, because playing baseball during recess was apparently too dangerous.

Stupidly, to try and meet the us students halfway, the school bought a crumby and flimsy plastic bat and ball, saying it was much safer since getting hit with them wouldn't really hurt. Well, it didn't matter how hard we hit a pitch, the ball would only fly about half as far as regulation distance between batter and pitcher, not that the pitcher could be at regulation distance because the ball was so light it couldn't be thrown that far.

But still that's all beside the point, because in high school it wouldn't be allowed because there is no reason to carry a baseball bat to school, there was no recess or outside breaks. If a kid was on the baseball team, good bats were provided by the school for after school practice, and if the kid wanted to use his own, he had to have a parent bring it after school.

 

[Vidi Kitty]

snip

1000 times this. Even for a trained fighter, nothing truly prepares you for your first time in that kind of situation. For someone without training, everything they do comes down to a "make them stop what they are doing to me now" feeling that can and will make someone take excessive measures.

For the people who think 11 is extreme and unjustified, I want you to make a short stabbing motion with your hand as fast as you can. Now imagine that you have a tone of adrenaline coursing though your veins. Now imagine that you are feeling genuinely threatened by someone who you believe will kill you if given half a chance. Now I want you to think about how fast your arm is going to be moving with that knife. 11 is actually taking it easy.

 

[Silvianoshei]

Not self defense, as I doubt the guy was still standing and an active threat somewhere halfway. Neither do I subscribe to the silly American logic that you can just kill anyone who gets in your way. Besides, he brought along a knife with the explicit and only motive of committing murder upon that bully. It was pre-meditated.

No broad sweeping statements on American law, please. The federal system is very complex and diverse, so you can't just take one state law and portray it as "American logic."

Truth be told, this ruling doesn't really fit with the law. The law doesn't override the existing self-defense laws, which don't allow you to use lethal force unless it is used against you or your home is invaded during the assault (in some places). If someone comes at you with fists, for example, you can't pull out a gun and blow his brains out and expect to get self-defense. That's manslaughter. Probably MS 3 or so, but still.

They should appeal, I'm sure they'll win.

 

[the trooper]

honestly, i have no sympathy for the bully. yeah it was a bit excessive but i think he deserved it. of course, we have no idea just how extreme the bullying was, so the guy must have been under extreme stress and depression to do this.

 

[Hiroshi Mishima]

I'm not gonna say a whole lot, cause I know what it's like to be on both sides of the spectrum (either by experience or by being there).. and I can honestly say that I do sometimes feel people deserve death.

It may not be an honourable or noble way to look at things, but there's a lot less honourable and noble people in this day and age. Zero Tolerance does nothing but render you unable to fight back, because if you lift a finger, you're often punished more than the bully was. To make things worse, if you're both expelled, and life near by, the bully can just come and find you again for getting him/her expelled.

I've met people who genuinely do not deserve life, because they devote it to making people around them unhappy, or tormenting people they single out for little to no reason (and usually it's a gender, racial, or other biased reason that only the bully perceives). Nothing can often be done about them, and things that are tried will often not work.

Mind you, the problem is only made worse when you stop to wonder if it's all related to said bully's family. A child who is beaten will often grow up into a parent who beats, and their child will most likely be a beater, too.. in school and/or in life. These people need help, or removal.

 

[Vidi Kitty]

Not self defense, as I doubt the guy was still standing and an active threat somewhere halfway. Neither do I subscribe to the silly American logic that you can just kill anyone who gets in your way. Besides, he brought along a knife with the explicit and only motive of committing murder upon that bully. It was pre-meditated.

No broad sweeping statements on American law, please. The federal system is very complex and diverse, so you can't just take one state law and portray it as "American logic."

Truth be told, this ruling doesn't really fit with the law. The law doesn't override the existing self-defense laws, which don't allow you to use lethal force unless it is used against you or your home is invaded during the assault (in some places). If someone comes at you with fists, for example, you can't pull out a gun and blow his brains out and expect to get self-defense. That's manslaughter. Probably MS 3 or so, but still.

They should appeal, I'm sure they'll win.

If one person comes at you with fists, not the best idea to go straight for your knife. If several people do however, its a different matter. One person can beat someone to death. Several can do it much easier and faster. If several people around you are intending on causing you harm with nothing but their hands and feet and you aren't some martial arts expert, there isn't a whole lot you can do to help yourself.

 

[The Human Torch]

Judge: Explain what happened, Jorge?
Jorge: I've never seen him before in my life.
Judge: Why did you kill this person, Jorge?
Jorge: I don't kill people, that is, that is my least favorite thing to do.
Judge: Tell me, Jorge, exactly what you were doing before this happened.
Jorge: I was in a bus.
Judge: Okay.
Jorge: I was sitting in my chair.
Judge: Yes.
Jorge: Reading a book.
Judge: Go on.
Jorge: And, well, this bully walked in.
Judge: Okay.
Jorge: So he went up to me.
Judge: Yes.
Jorge: And I stabbed him 11 times in the chest.
Judge: Jooooooooooooooorge, that kills people.
Jorge: Ow, ow, wow, I didn't know that.
Judge: Jorge, how could you not know that?
Jorge: Yeah, I am in the wrong here, I suck.

It's amazing how you can draw this conclusion without reading the article. A death (especially at a younger age) is bad, but the aggressor got what was coming to him. If a person is bad ass enough to torment others, then they should be bad ass enough to accept the consequences.

Whoa. Maybe I should just stab someone who pisses me off and hope I get away with, because of course they provoked me.

There should of been punishment, this is completely sending out the wrong message on how to deal with bullies and violence. IMO he's worse than the bully, he just went *that* step further and should face the consequences.


It also worrying how many are for this kid. I hope to never cross path with you guys, I might get stabbed D:

This is not sending the wrong message about how to deal with bullies, it's sending a wakeup call to bullies. A few days ago a girl in New York killed herself because of bullying.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/staten_island/family_mourns_bullied_si_student_R7qfvpLdnfnNBvM901i8yH

Would you prefer this kind of ending, she didn't stand up and instead killed herself, is this more to your liking?

It's a (slightly modified) quote from Lama's with Hats, do a Youtube search on it.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Shit like this makes me lose a little faith in humanity. Why do people feel the need to hurt others, man? I get bullied a lot, and if I can just let it go, why can't others? I think all parties in this case are pretty stupid, most especially the judge. People need to learn that while bullies won't listen to reason, they will get bored and go away if you don't react. And by the reactions of the escapist community, too many of you guys have a bloodlust, man. It's not hard to tolerate bullying, even when it's on all levels at once. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

I don't know about bullies where you are from, but in my area, ignoring a bully will make the situation much worse.

The world maybe blind in this respect, but it is logical and sane.

It goes against all sense of self-preservation to not protect oneself. Sometimes running away works, sometimes it doesn't.

From the situation in the article, ignoring and running away just didn't work. The kid tried to get off at a different stop to avoid the encounter, but the bully followed him off the bus and punched him in the back of the head.

So what, your way to deal with such a situation is to just take the beating? Yeah the bully might get into trouble if the bus driver is doing his/her job and stops the beating. Though, you would be pretty bruised and bloody by the time that happened. Besides, the bully getting into trouble for it most likely won't stop the bully form doing it again. The bully sees beating you as fun and since you will take the beating, why beat anybody else. He won't care about getting into trouble, he doesn't have a mind that cares about the future, school, and permanent records; he lives in the now and beating you is in the now.

Some people don't have the strength to take such a thing day in and day out. The logical thought is to defend oneself. The knife maybe a bit to far, but if the kid felt that his life was threatened and that he wasn't tough enough to fight the bully with his fists, the knife was a perfect option to give himself an advantage.

Considering emotions and adrenaline and as other people have said, it takes very little time to stab eleven times, I don't see the situation as overboard.

Yes, the bully is dead, but that was the consequence of his actions. His fault, I don't feel sorry for him.

 

[GeneWard]

Snippety snip.

I don't know about bullies where you are from, but in my area, ignoring a bully will make the situation much worse.

The world maybe blind in this respect, but it is logical and sane.

It goes against all sense of self-preservation to not protect oneself. Sometimes running away works, sometimes it doesn't.

From the situation in the article, ignoring and running away just didn't work. The kid tried to get off at a different stop to avoid the encounter, but the bully followed him off the bus and punched him in the back of the head.

So what, your way to deal with such a situation is to just take the beating? Yeah the bully might get into trouble if the bus driver is doing his/her job and stops the beating. Though, you would be pretty bruised and bloody by the time that happened. Besides, the bully getting into trouble for it most likely won't stop the bully form doing it again. The bully sees beating you as fun and since you will take the beating, why beat anybody else. He won't care about getting into trouble, he doesn't have a mind that cares about the future, school, and permanent records; he lives in the now and beating you is in the now.

Some people don't have the strength to take such a thing day in and day out. The logical thought is to defend oneself. The knife maybe a bit to far, but if the kid felt that his life was threatened and that he wasn't tough enough to fight the bully with his fists, the knife was a perfect option to give himself an advantage.

Considering emotions and adrenaline and as other people have said, it takes very little time to stab eleven times, I don't see the situation as overboard.

Yes, the bully is dead, but that was the consequence of his actions. His fault, I don't feel sorry for him.

Aye, but a bully won't carry on if you let him know that he can't hurt you, and this is what I'm talking about. If, after he's done beating you, you're on the ground snivelling like a little whelp, he'll carry on. If you can take it, which you, and everyone else, can, no exceptions. Human beings are basically all the same, you get up, and you walk away. You deal with it. Please, don't think I'm being condescending, I am genuinely interested, but am I misguided in thinking one has to be unstable and weak to not be able to take a beating and some mean words? If you can walk away, you're fine. You wipe away the blood and cover the bruises and you're fine. It isn't rocket surgery, man. Like, I'm not gonna get preachy on your ass, but the bible said something like "Blessed are the meek," and I believe in that completely.

 

[Vidi Kitty]

Aye, but a bully won't carry on if you let him know that he can't hurt you, and this is what I'm talking about. If, after he's done beating you, you're on the ground snivelling like a little whelp, he'll carry on. If you can take it, which you, and everyone else, can, no exceptions. Human beings are basically all the same, you get up, and you walk away. You deal with it. Please, don't think I'm being condescending, I am genuinely interested, but am I misguided in thinking one has to be unstable and weak to not be able to take a beating and some mean words? If you can walk away, you're fine. You wipe away the blood and cover the bruises and you're fine. It isn't rocket surgery, man. Like, I'm not gonna get preachy on your ass, but the bible said something like "Blessed are the meek," and I believe in that completely.

You say that everyone is the same... Thats close but incorrect. Everyone is just a little bit different. You might bruise easier, your bones might be a little more frail. A punch is not going to affect 2 different people exactly the same. And on top of that, you have the psychology of the person to take into account. Are they mentally prepared to take a beating and move on? Is this going to snap their sanity like a dry twig?

This kid put up with it for a bit, which is what you are saying he should have done. But when it didn't stop because he was "tough enough to not let it bother him", he decided to put a stop to it.

 

[JackWestJr]

While this story is pretty depressing, I kinda like where this is going: Kids, if you plan on bullying, also plan on being stabbed.

 

[default]

I'm not phased by this story.

I don't give a fuck what your reasons or excuses are. If you don't have a pre-existing, tangible, biological mental disability, if you dish out the abuse you need to be prepared to receive it twice as hard in return. And he did.

I'm hesitant to say good riddance... Although the kid who did the stabbing looks like a major psychopath, and this is going to fuck things up for him for the rest of his life.

 

[Smackerlacker]

People who have never been in an actual fight often fail to understand how serious it is. If you lose a fist fight, you are completely at the mercy of the one who defeated you. The fear of death is enough to motivate anyone to kill, and doing so is fully justified.
A fistfight might not seem serious to the uninitiated, but it is deadly serious. Furthermore, once you have committed to the use of deadly force, restraint is irrelevant. It makes no sense to stop until your opponent is truly dead.
To do otherwise is to invite further conflict, which could be deadly to you. If someone attacks you with the intent to do physical harm, it is completely reasonable and necessary to assume that they wish to kill you. If they did not, they would not have attacked. If they did, and you did not act appropriately, you're dead. No one has an obligation to assume that they're attacker just wants to rough them up a bit.

 

[marurder]

It was self defense, the bully had it coming . You push anyone far enough they will snap and the bully will get 'it'. The bully provoked it in this story and most deservedly received it. For those who want to argue about 'he shouldn't have been killed' (in-proportionate punishment) I ask, what lesser beating would have resolved this?

If the kid just beat the bully, nothing would be resolved and probably the pack mentality would have set in the next week and we would be reading how a kid was disabled/killed from a gang.

All life lost is sad. But this isn't senseless.

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

On the one hand? If every fucking asshole that had nothing better to do than take their own insecurities out on someone else got stabbed, we'd have a lot less bullies in the world.

On the other hand, I don't think it's something worth being killed over. At least not in most cases.