On Dialogue Menus

[Yahtzee Croshaw]

On Dialogue Menus

Tired of the generic and bland dialogue menus offered in games? Yahtzee has a solution.

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[lifestorm2]

Well, it's interesting, at least, your idea.

But whether we really want to make talking a task is another issue, since, well, your idea sounds like a chore what with all the amount of deviation that could happen (what, like 4x4x?+1, or are we giving diagonal spaces too making it 8x8x?+1[?being the amount of times your choice makes a difference in the conversation and the 1 being not doing anything?])and the amount of effort it'll take since frankly, I didn't buy a game to play its innovative talking system, but then again there's that "LEAVE" option, isn't there?

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

Damn, I was just getting interested at the end.

In all seriousness, the dual stick idea sounds like it has merit. I'm reminded somewhat of the conversation scheme from Mass Effect - while you still had hard-scripted responses, the conversations seemed to flow more naturally because you chose a general attitude rather than the response itself. It felt more like a real conversation and less like the Gandalf-Saurman back-and-forth that I thought of when the puppets got involved.

 

[stonethered]

That's a very involved system of conversation.

Good, but I expect it would get tedious as you got further into the game. And the only way I can see players being willing to speak with NPCs beyond required plot interactions would be to have a number of information grinds. By which I mean that the information the player requires would be randomly assigned to a local NPC and the player would have to talk to the locals until they happened upon the correct NPC and wheedled the information out of them.

Quite simply I think the main issue with attempting a more realistic conversation system is that many players don't want to spend the time conversing with the populace. Especially when they could be using that time to go kill whatever the shadowy force plagueing the land is.

That said, I'd love to see more realistic conversation in games.

 

[rverschoore]

This is a good idea. he's right about scripting a conversation with this much complexity and then multiplying it by however many NPC are in the game might be a challenge, but its a good idea nonetheless. This would have made a game like Fallout 3 better, since you have this whole skill devoted to speech and all it does is determine how much of a chance a pre-scripted conversation bit has of working. With this kind of system speech might have been more like an actual skill.

 

[HentMas]

mmm...

I really think this would work, i really enjoyed the conversations in Leisure Suit Larry, they where imaginative and a challenge in its own, and well, since the game is about you hooking up with chicks its fairly understandable that just "choose an option" would not work

in the end what i would love to see is a game where context matters, just what you say, the emotion you put into the theme of discussion would be a great idea to make someone like or dislike you, and that way it would be more easy to be a douche for all those people that only choose to be a douche for the sake of being a douche... but after you have being a douche with everyone where would you get information??

well... perhaps some people like douches and they will give you the info you need

 

[Loop Stricken]

And the shoulder buttons control your fingers.

 

[silentsentinel]

I doubt any developer would have the patience to do that system well, but we certainly have the technological capabilities to do such a thing.

 

[erbkaiser]

I'm glad to read this. The conversation minigame is something I'd like to see more of - either inspired by LSL Magna Cum Laude (minus the sperm as you mention), or to pick an in my opinion better example, Fahrenheit ("Indigo Prophecy" in the censored version). You have to juggle the right stick to get a specific dialogue option, and time to choose is limited. The "best" topics (i.e. the ones that are the most intelligent) are hardest to do. Other options are easier, and if time runs out, the easiest one is automatically chosen.
Thus you can easily coast through a conversation, or choose to make it go a specific way by "using your mind".

Another good example of conversation done right is in Culpa Innata. There is no minigame, but the number of topics to be picked is limited by time of day, a set (but hidden) predefined conversation length, and any topic chosen hides and opens other topics.

All of these are much better than the Talking Heads mechanic just about all other games use.

 

[zombi2989]

"internet decency protocols"? That's a good one.

P.S.
Cool idea though, you could even throw in an achievement for a super-long awkward silence.

 

[Tears of Blood]

It was lookin' good.

Then Yahtzee gave us his idea.

I cannot see this ever working in a game. Ever. It has a high potential for rage.

Dialog trees are fine if you ask me, they just need a bit of refinement, and bit of fleshing out.

 

[mklnjbh]

It sounds like it could be groundbreaking, but an obvious step from what we have now. Honestly, if developers wanted to, I am sure someone with enough time on their hands could set this up, but I can't see anyone willing enough to pour the undoubtedly massive resources to making it work. I'd expect most GAME designers to focus more on improving the GAME parts of the GAME. Making realistic conversations is just so bloody hard, it just makes the most logical sense for a company to head out with a halfway-decent plot line and workable combat, and just slap together a dialogue tree most players will just randomly skip through so they can move on the slitting heads and shooting beams of death at chimps.

 

[Quickening666]

I remember playing Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (the awesome point and click adventure not the diabolical action version) for the first time back in 1993 and even as a kid I was overjoyed at the fact you could select what to say to people. Things haven't moved on at all since those days, in fact in most cases they've gone backwards.

I started reading your article and I was surprised at you criticising Dragon Age because while it follows the established way of doing things, it does it far better than any game of recent memory. But after finishing your article I must agree with you, there needs to be some revolutionary new way of handling conversations.

I like to think that as gaming matures, so too will the focus shift from creating nice explosions to developing in-depth NPC personalities and complex social strategies. I actually enjoy having conversations with interesting NPCs in games like Dragon Age far more than I enjoy slaughtering yet another band of badguys and when a game actually manages to make me give a damn about the local villagers... well that's an accomplishment.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

This is going to come across as extremely nerdy but... here goes...

Dialogue is one place where games really need to learn from the Pen and Paper world. Take my favorite Pen and Paper RPG of the moment, Burning Wheel. Burning Wheel presents a very interesting way to handle tense conversations, arguments and persuasion attempts called a "Duel of Wits" where you essentially verbally spar with your opponent, making feints, attacks and defenses with your words and pieces of your arguments, losing standing for things like repetition and granting bonuses for things like presenting evidence, making promises and even threatening your opponents. It has opened up a brand new method of handling social dynamics in Pen and Paper Roleplaying and a similar more electronically focused method could do just as well in the electronic world.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Bad idea, like most men I cannot multitask. I cannot focus on an annoying little minigame and he story at the same time.

 

[uppitycracker]

the monotony of the dialogue menus in games like dragon age are exactly why i can't play games like this anymore. over half hte damn game involves talking to NPC's to gather various bits of information, in dull, drawn out ways, and if you don't pay close enough attention you often times miss the point. i'm not so sure that a mini game involved would make it any better, though... maybe the first few times, sure, but no, ultimately it would just drive me insane.

 

[hermes]

It looks like you are looking for a more complex version of the Alpha Protocol conversation system. It is similar to the Mass Effect one, in which you select attitude more than lines, but it also has an scheduled time for you to answer to NPC's lines, with one of the possible conversation options is "nothing" (by selecting nothing), which makes it more fluid and "natural"

 

[Swaki]

sounds like an...idea, real life conversations arent really interesting until you've had a few beers, something you seem to forget, getting all the info without having to chit chat for 5 min is a good thing, small talk isn't fun (have you noticed how its only used around people you don't like and your family), the "leave" button would most likely either be used all the time thus missing important informations or story or not at all thus boring the player, and speaking of immersion, doing other things (beside the basic drinking and eating) while talking would seem out of worldly, jumping up and down while having a discussion about the importance of your next mission seems stupid, i liked dragon ages way, or i just enjoyed the story to much to notice.

 

[dududf]

*Snicker Snicker*
Yahtzee admitted he plays Leisure suit Larry
*Snicker Snicker*
____________________________________

Any who, that system is pretty damn flawed.

1) The amount of dialogue that would be required for every person would be tremendous. Imagine that system in Oblivion, or Fallout or WoW, the amount of players to talk to is alot, now imagine a unique conversation for each person. Yikes.

2)With the time it'd take to make that system, then all of the talking, alot of time would have been detracted from...say the actual GAMEPLAY design, or the story telling (don't you dare quote me and say "But the talking is part of the plot Hurr Durr, no I mean as in the PLOT) not worth the time it'd take to put into it.

3)I don't know about you, but I fear the possibility of failing every conversation because I have to walk around examine his DVD collection, follow the conversation, and try to DIRECT it to where I want it to go, for example maybe in Heavy Rain (Just an example..) I'm trying to get him to tell me who is the murderer, and he/she starts talking about the weather. That'd be fairly annoying.

All in all, interesting idea, but far too flawed, Nice try Yahtzee, just refine it some more

Huh, I think I just slaughtered the Coma in my post...