Monster Hunter Tri
If a game only gets decent after the tutorial, it's not a good game.
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If a game only gets decent after the tutorial, it's not a good game.
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Monster Hunter Tri
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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Ha, knew I was right, well I'm quite happy now, and it was quite a good article, at least some people can stop moaning, or... pick up on something else and whine about that.
EDIT: Also most people said he didn't talk about big monster battles or, multiplayer. Well we already know he hates online/multiplayer and he talked about the monster battles.
EDIT: Also most people said he didn't talk about big monster battles or, multiplayer. Well we already know he hates online/multiplayer and he talked about the monster battles.
A ten hour tutorial?
Really? I mean, I've played long tutorials before, in like Kingdom Hearts 358/2 days and LittleBIGplanet's level Making but whoa... that's mind blowing. I can't do that in one sitting. I'd have to eat a muffin or something in between. Preferably one of those Mega Muffins which I must take a picture of for someone.
Anyway, fair point. A Guitar Hero way of reviewing games does seem efficient. Can't wait until you get an Encore though.
Calumon: I wonder if his beard has grown back yet...
Really? I mean, I've played long tutorials before, in like Kingdom Hearts 358/2 days and LittleBIGplanet's level Making but whoa... that's mind blowing. I can't do that in one sitting. I'd have to eat a muffin or something in between. Preferably one of those Mega Muffins which I must take a picture of for someone.
Anyway, fair point. A Guitar Hero way of reviewing games does seem efficient. Can't wait until you get an Encore though.
Calumon: I wonder if his beard has grown back yet...
Bullshit, this is the same excuse people made about Final Fantasy XIII. "Oh it opens up 20 hours in." Jesus titty-fucking Christ, I do not have the time to play a shitty game for 20 fucking hours before it gets good.
Aaw, I was hoping for a rant video.
Oh well, I guess the novelty would wear of if he did more than one.
Oh well, I guess the novelty would wear of if he did more than one.
Can't blame him for getting annoyed at a game with an extensively long tutorial phase. Asking to put up with 10 hours of crap is a bit of a tall order (and is what turned many people including me off of similar experiences like with FFXIII.) Hell, in 10 hours you can get through 95% of a God of War game.
Ah ha! At last I have something to say that contradicts you!
I actually think a weapons degradation system could work well, depending on the feel of gameplay you're going for and how you implement it. Remember STALKER: Shadows of Chernobyl. That game had a weapon degradation system and I actually thought it fit really well with the feel of a world breaking down around you. Of course, the big difference between STALKER and this game is apparently the fact that you could fire more than ten shots of your weapon without it becoming shit. Actually, in STALKER, there was one gun that I picked up early in the game and I kept it pretty much throughout, watching it slowly degrade as the game went on and worrying that it would give out on me at a critical moment. It made me rethink how I used it, because it was such a freaking awesome weapon I didn't want to loose it. So, I'd find ways to avoid having to use it if I could and I'd make sure that every shot with it counted. That was awesome. Of course, by the end of the game, it had become next to useless, because the frame had gotten bent, causing the accuracy to go way down, but by that point, it was almost the end and I was fighting guys who had much better weapons that I had to pick up anyway in order to fight them. I actually thought that worked well.
So, weapon degradation can work if you implement it well.
Really, that's all I can make an argument for, and I'm not really arguing in favor of the game you're reviewing, so maybe that doesn't count.
I actually think a weapons degradation system could work well, depending on the feel of gameplay you're going for and how you implement it. Remember STALKER: Shadows of Chernobyl. That game had a weapon degradation system and I actually thought it fit really well with the feel of a world breaking down around you. Of course, the big difference between STALKER and this game is apparently the fact that you could fire more than ten shots of your weapon without it becoming shit. Actually, in STALKER, there was one gun that I picked up early in the game and I kept it pretty much throughout, watching it slowly degrade as the game went on and worrying that it would give out on me at a critical moment. It made me rethink how I used it, because it was such a freaking awesome weapon I didn't want to loose it. So, I'd find ways to avoid having to use it if I could and I'd make sure that every shot with it counted. That was awesome. Of course, by the end of the game, it had become next to useless, because the frame had gotten bent, causing the accuracy to go way down, but by that point, it was almost the end and I was fighting guys who had much better weapons that I had to pick up anyway in order to fight them. I actually thought that worked well.
So, weapon degradation can work if you implement it well.
Really, that's all I can make an argument for, and I'm not really arguing in favor of the game you're reviewing, so maybe that doesn't count.
Blah blah blah, MH3 does not have a 10 hour tutorial. It has a 90 minute tutorial, unless you linger on, doing things that are unnecessary forever. Do them for a bit, explore a bit, then move on. Do you need a manual to play this game, someone to hold your hand? You don't like some elements of it, sure, I accept that, but saying it has a 10 hour tutorial is like reviewing WoW and spending your first 10 hours picking herbs and then saying "In this game you do nothing but pick herbs for the first 10 hours". That's pretty silly.
Also, WELL UP YOURS TOO, PRICK!
Also, WELL UP YOURS TOO, PRICK!
"I have a simple rule when playing a game to review. I play until the game is finished, or until I can't stand any more."
Actually, that's a durn good policy for playing games to review. It's efficient for you, and useful for us.
Incidentally, I'm fine with long tutorials to a point (I liked Kingdom Hearts, didn't I?), but the "it gets better later" excuse just doesn't fly. There's a difference between an introduction/tutorial and sheer boring tedium for several hours running.
Actually, that's a durn good policy for playing games to review. It's efficient for you, and useful for us.
Incidentally, I'm fine with long tutorials to a point (I liked Kingdom Hearts, didn't I?), but the "it gets better later" excuse just doesn't fly. There's a difference between an introduction/tutorial and sheer boring tedium for several hours running.
This game sounds terrible... I mean, I know Yahtzee exaggerates a lot (or really hates games?) but even so, this sounds like a shitty Korean MMORPG without the MMO part.
Glad to see you are able back yourself up when people question your choices; I'd say that places you a bit above the "angry comedian pretending to be a critic" label bestowed upon you.
Glad to see you are able back yourself up when people question your choices; I'd say that places you a bit above the "angry comedian pretending to be a critic" label bestowed upon you.
He goes even more in-depth on the crappy stuff in this article, and I am increasingly convinced that Monster Hunter games have basically remained unchanged. That is to say, horrifyingly tedious bullshit wrapped around frustrating gameplay and combat mechanics.
And what if I forget to switch to an appropriate weapon before I start a quest? You get locked into quests, there's no way to change equipment once you're in it. You either have to try and fight skittish pterodactyls with a warhammer, hoping to God that they'll eventually calmly sit on the ground for the eighteen seconds necessary to swing the bloody thing, or you quit the quest and lose your deposit.
Playing Guild Wars as a newbie had me feeling *this* sooooo damn much. What sort of game requires me to , before any new difficult quest, read the wiki article to see what I'm up against and find what I need to prepare for, and in doing so ruin things like PLOT and UNPREDICTABILITY?
It still drives me mad. Its why I barely play the game any more; hell everytime theres a rebalance or game update I need to play as my Lv20 WIKINERD to know whats happened.
Damn mumorpegguhs.
Playing Guild Wars as a newbie had me feeling *this* sooooo damn much. What sort of game requires me to , before any new difficult quest, read the wiki article to see what I'm up against and find what I need to prepare for, and in doing so ruin things like PLOT and UNPREDICTABILITY?
It still drives me mad. Its why I barely play the game any more; hell everytime theres a rebalance or game update I need to play as my Lv20 WIKINERD to know whats happened.
Damn mumorpegguhs.
A 10 hour tutorial? Shit, I could finish plenty of good games in that time frame. Or at least enjoying a long game that is actually good.
Actually, what you've just described sounds like your basic limited ammo game design element. Your gun essentially had a limited amount of ammo, and you had to choose how to ration it. That makes a little bit more sense. What Yahtzee is referring to (I think) is more a degradation system for melee weapons like swords and axes and the like. That just sucks ass, because you're expected to keep using the weapon repeatedly, but you have to stop and repair it.RJ Dalton said:
It sucks less if it takes a while to actually degrade, because you can basically use it for the whole mission and then repair it when you get back to town between missions. But it's still retarded, because now it's basically just a little checkbox on your "list of shit to do whenever I'm in town". It doesn't add anything to the gameplay; it's just annoying. Just get rid of it. It's not fun. At all. Yeah, it's less realistic, but you know what? Fuck realism. Reality sucks and we need less of it in video games, especially bloody fantasy ones with giant fucking monsters.
That sounds like how a playthrough of a Resident Evil game often goes (well, not Resi5 so much due to its Chapter Select feature, but still), only with ammo supplies instead of weapon integrity.RJ Dalton said:
Also, the Buffy the Vampire Slayer video game "Chaos Bleeds" (yeah, yeah, I know) actually did weapon degeneration pretty well. Of course, the two swords that you could find in the game were immune to it, so that helped it make sense.
So I agree: weapon degradation can totally work. It just seems to be one of those gameplay elements that are routinely done badly, like escort missions.
ETA: Dorkmaster, you magnificent ninja.
I got to point where Yahtzee is talking about(fighting the Great Jaggi) in about an hour of gameplay, and it took me about 15 minutes to kill the thing. Since I've played other Monster Hunters, that gives me the advantage of knowing what to do, but still by hour 2~3 I was fighting things that scared the shit out of me even though I've played other MHs.
Well, I've enjoyed this game, and I'm just sorry that Yahtzee felt like the game was kicking him in the nuts over and over and over.
Well, I've enjoyed this game, and I'm just sorry that Yahtzee felt like the game was kicking him in the nuts over and over and over.