200: War and Peace
- Thread starter James McGrath
- Start date
But there are effective protests, and there are pointless exercises in self-righteousness. Your team doesn't care about your political views; they want you to pull your weight. If you don't pull your weight, they boot you. They won't listen to what you're saying and they will not respect your creativity.Beery said:
The best kind of protest doesn't force people to listen to you, because all that does is piss people off. The best protest reaches across the aisle and invite the opposition on to your turf, or has you going on to their turf and using non-invasive, yet highly visible tactics.
This is stupid.
Do they really have to bring politics into video games? I play video games to escape from politics. Now it's following me everywhere.
Do they really have to bring politics into video games? I play video games to escape from politics. Now it's following me everywhere.
All other considerations aside, this sort of protest is also self-defeating. "Attacking" people in places where they want to play and relax is far more likely to bend their mindset more against your cause than it is likely to gain their empathy. Protesting outside of a bar is fine, but if you follow people inside and keep shouting your slogans at them while they're trying to have a beer and watch the big game, they're more apt to get angry at you and then transfer that aggravation to your message.
"Wow! These people are playing a game that simulates war. We should just assume they don't realize it's just a video game! Because everybody else on this planet is retarded and believes everything they hear! Not us though, that is why we believe in global warming in God!"
That is what I assume is their thought processes at this point.
That is what I assume is their thought processes at this point.
Have had that before, Guy throwing grenades and shooting me from up above for playing what i payed for so i shot him in the ass took his sniper spot and got everyone to go for him
"-Look! Those persons are having fun.
-Oh My! This is totally wrong.
-Yeah! They are having fun with virtual murder, which has no consequence on the real world and helps with the stress.
-We should do something.
- I know, lets throw a big bunch of grenades to where they are, while shouting loudly. Because grenades are totally safe, aren't they?
- Of Course!"
That's how those jerks think.
-Oh My! This is totally wrong.
-Yeah! They are having fun with virtual murder, which has no consequence on the real world and helps with the stress.
-We should do something.
- I know, lets throw a big bunch of grenades to where they are, while shouting loudly. Because grenades are totally safe, aren't they?
- Of Course!"
That's how those jerks think.
Interesting, how one women can get the wrong message and take it up way too far into a place that games were never mant for.
But they have their opinions, and i have mine, they should keep theirs to themselves.
But they have their opinions, and i have mine, they should keep theirs to themselves.
Nothing quite like alienating your audience for getting their attention, I guess... but I don't think you're going to like the results. Stuff like in-game peace protests is going to be even less effective than those idiot streakers that used to infest public events, most notably the Oscars; David Niven's response [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaking#In_popular_culture], "Isn't it fascinating to think that probably the only laugh that man will ever get in his life is by stripping off and showing his shortcomings?", is pretty much mine to a "peace" protester in an online game.
Dude. Go find a more constructive way to convey your politics than interfering in the few hours a week I can dedicate to games.
-- Steve
Dude. Go find a more constructive way to convey your politics than interfering in the few hours a week I can dedicate to games.
-- Steve
I know that sounds awesome. "Let me shoot you in the face, then maybe I will consider joining your protest." I seriously doubt that protesting in the very thing your against is the best way to go about protesting. Its like telling people not to smoke while you smoke. At the end of the day you will still be using the game that your protesting against, to protest.Clemenstation said:
I hate these morons, but on the fortunate side I know a lot of the admins on a majority of the servers I frequent.
A swift banhammer - it's all they deserve. Just because they are confused about their message doesn't mean they're any better than the common griefer - worse, because ordinary griefers manage to be hilarious occasionally, and aren't this bloody stupid.
Moralfags are the cancer that is killing gaming.
A swift banhammer - it's all they deserve. Just because they are confused about their message doesn't mean they're any better than the common griefer - worse, because ordinary griefers manage to be hilarious occasionally, and aren't this bloody stupid.
Moralfags are the cancer that is killing gaming.
Video games are mostly a political medium. But anti-violence and video games is the most ridiculous subject. Video games are an area where we can live without dire consequences, and interact in worlds to achive goals. It is the achieving of goals in the game that pulls people to it. If people play violent video games, it's not because the endorse violence, it's because it is a system of rules that engages their mind most actively. They are able to immerse their mind into the experience more completely because on a purely visual and audio level it arouses them (not in a sexual way) the same way real violence would, only to a lesser degree. No other visual medium, except violence (and perhaps sex) is going to generate that kind of arousal.
Now, if they want to get a political message across,(and I agree that the games are already generally politicized, and, like gothic fiction, usually have some sort of vague axe to grind) then I think they should mod their own games. If they want the consequences of war to be a big part of it, then they need to create an entertaining way for people to feel those consequences and interact with them, and make them a part of their goals. I have thought about this a lot, would love to design a FUN GAME that does this.
Video games are a wierd medium. In the PC world, the vast majority of gamers are WHITE MEN with expendable income. Servers are often extremely hostile to people of other races, and in general to women. Women who play online have to do deal with all kinds of anti-social misogynist behavoir. By coming into the server and simply trying to break the goal system, it may be a protest, but it is alienating. Now, if they started servers that operated well, presented various kinds of the material desired, but promoted respect, then it could be done. Have they thought of starting a server that posts anti-war news articles upon entering? That bans the use of misogynist words like, *****, whore, **** and racist words, etc.? These are very important things. Maybe this way women and people who arn't of european decent would feel comfortable in the forum. This would be a way to use the medium in a positive manner to convey the message.
For now, going all peace mode in server is working against the people they are trying to communicate with. Despite what they might think, people are very used to this, and already have a reaction in mind. For one, we deal with hackers, spammers, griefers, ass-hats, racists, and heterosexists all the time, and what we do is tune them out if they're mild, and we ban them if they interfere with gameplay. These kinds of protests are just more griefing/hacking/spamming, and to many, since they arn't anti-war, it is ass-hatish. (it's ass hatish to even me). I am anti-war. I agree with the message that we do have a responsibility to prevent wars we disagree with as tax payers. But I play counter-strike. I dont' play counter-strike to shoot arabs (I very often play as the "arabs, or south americans, or vaguely white peopel in aviator glasses, or the dude in the ski mask who could be anything", as everyone does) I play on servers that don't allow racism or disrespect. I have had quality interactions on those servers and made friends who might turn into people I meet and have a dialogue with in person. I say something when people start griefing a girl for playing. I do a lot of things to make sure my experience is not one that feels disjunctive to my real life. I live with a gay black man and straight jew and I genuinely like women as more than sex objects, and it is important for me not to feel as if I am endorsing racist, misogynist, disrespectful behavoir.
So, in counter-strike, I have learned something far more important than what a heartshaped group of dead people will teach me. I have learned that war involves dying. Most counter-strike games end with 95% of each side dead. The vast majority. I die every 3 minutes in counter-strike. Do I want to go die every three minutes in real life? Do I want to kill people? No. The politics of this particular game are not politics at all. Neither side is demonized, there is no f'ing plot! I often think of myself as fighting off the counter-terrorist just incase I have to fight against a government for my rights one day. In a vague far off sense that feels important.
I really, strongly recommend that these people embrace the good things about team-oriented violent video games, and get creative about using the fact that the forum does exist to inform and ENGAGE. Not just some onesided discussion of "i'm right, you're wrong so I'm going to ruin your night."
Besides that, shoudln't the protesters be worried that there is no public space more than they should be worried about what people do with their mice and keyboaryds late at night?
Whatever, I've typed myself out. I can't wait to see all the tl:dr posts.
Now, if they want to get a political message across,(and I agree that the games are already generally politicized, and, like gothic fiction, usually have some sort of vague axe to grind) then I think they should mod their own games. If they want the consequences of war to be a big part of it, then they need to create an entertaining way for people to feel those consequences and interact with them, and make them a part of their goals. I have thought about this a lot, would love to design a FUN GAME that does this.
Video games are a wierd medium. In the PC world, the vast majority of gamers are WHITE MEN with expendable income. Servers are often extremely hostile to people of other races, and in general to women. Women who play online have to do deal with all kinds of anti-social misogynist behavoir. By coming into the server and simply trying to break the goal system, it may be a protest, but it is alienating. Now, if they started servers that operated well, presented various kinds of the material desired, but promoted respect, then it could be done. Have they thought of starting a server that posts anti-war news articles upon entering? That bans the use of misogynist words like, *****, whore, **** and racist words, etc.? These are very important things. Maybe this way women and people who arn't of european decent would feel comfortable in the forum. This would be a way to use the medium in a positive manner to convey the message.
For now, going all peace mode in server is working against the people they are trying to communicate with. Despite what they might think, people are very used to this, and already have a reaction in mind. For one, we deal with hackers, spammers, griefers, ass-hats, racists, and heterosexists all the time, and what we do is tune them out if they're mild, and we ban them if they interfere with gameplay. These kinds of protests are just more griefing/hacking/spamming, and to many, since they arn't anti-war, it is ass-hatish. (it's ass hatish to even me). I am anti-war. I agree with the message that we do have a responsibility to prevent wars we disagree with as tax payers. But I play counter-strike. I dont' play counter-strike to shoot arabs (I very often play as the "arabs, or south americans, or vaguely white peopel in aviator glasses, or the dude in the ski mask who could be anything", as everyone does) I play on servers that don't allow racism or disrespect. I have had quality interactions on those servers and made friends who might turn into people I meet and have a dialogue with in person. I say something when people start griefing a girl for playing. I do a lot of things to make sure my experience is not one that feels disjunctive to my real life. I live with a gay black man and straight jew and I genuinely like women as more than sex objects, and it is important for me not to feel as if I am endorsing racist, misogynist, disrespectful behavoir.
So, in counter-strike, I have learned something far more important than what a heartshaped group of dead people will teach me. I have learned that war involves dying. Most counter-strike games end with 95% of each side dead. The vast majority. I die every 3 minutes in counter-strike. Do I want to go die every three minutes in real life? Do I want to kill people? No. The politics of this particular game are not politics at all. Neither side is demonized, there is no f'ing plot! I often think of myself as fighting off the counter-terrorist just incase I have to fight against a government for my rights one day. In a vague far off sense that feels important.
I really, strongly recommend that these people embrace the good things about team-oriented violent video games, and get creative about using the fact that the forum does exist to inform and ENGAGE. Not just some onesided discussion of "i'm right, you're wrong so I'm going to ruin your night."
Besides that, shoudln't the protesters be worried that there is no public space more than they should be worried about what people do with their mice and keyboaryds late at night?
Whatever, I've typed myself out. I can't wait to see all the tl:dr posts.
People like you are EXACTLY the reason why server populations that appear racist, misogynistic and homophobic are usually the better servers, and why I will do my part to keep good servers like that.grok70 said:
If it doesn't let me generalize, flame entire races/genders/orientations at once and in general act offensive to everyone and everything, it probably isn't a fun server.
Part of it is that games are one of the few domains of guys that are sacrosanct. Think of the barber shop of yore, it used to be a place where men could openly converse without women. Think of the Andy Griffith barbershop and the one seen in Gran Torino. As long as you're amongst friends who can take a jib it's alright. When it is extended to strangers on a server it is often insulting. (Probably chauvinistic, but guys tend to be a bit more brash and forthright in their conversations) Games/servers should incorporate morals in their rules and codes of conduct so that insulting Jews about the Holocaust is a bannable offense but it also calls into question how much of a carebear environment the game should be. This can only be decided by the Developers and Administrators of the game/server. Should you continuously log onto a Neo-Nazi server you'll only have yourself to blame for.insanelich said:
As for the peaceniks, protesting by impeding a team's efficiency is rude and uncalled for. If they were to try to rationally explain their views either on a forum or IRL I might be inclined to listen. But if they are detrimental to my team's ability to win I am more likely to ragequit or start playing Serious Sam to relieve the stress.
For the most part gamers can recognize the difference between reality and a game and are therefore able to keep the morals of their lives intact regardless of what virtual genocides they may have inflicted. Those who can't differentiate between them call into question their perception of reality. Trying to impose real morals on a virtual world is like trying to solve world hunger by distributing enriched sawdust. Might it work? Yes. Will people like you for it? No. And it skips the crux of the matter that these systems of values (respect for life, good ole' chivalry etc.) should be better ingrained in the children by their parents over a period of years.
I'll keep it short.
I generally consider myself a pacifist (Not...hardcore pacifist, but i despise pretty much any kind of real life war). I still like to shoot virtual people in thier faces.
Let me just do that and take your protest somewhere important. Video Games are the wrong medium for that.
I generally consider myself a pacifist (Not...hardcore pacifist, but i despise pretty much any kind of real life war). I still like to shoot virtual people in thier faces.
Let me just do that and take your protest somewhere important. Video Games are the wrong medium for that.