200: War and Peace

Sergeant M. Fudgey

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xmetatr0nx said:
Good for them, i think they have the right to do whatever they want. That said, if in real life i am tempted to take a gun to a lot of protestors, absolutely nothing is going to stop me on an online FPS that already provides me with a gun. Its not so much that i hate them for being annoying, its just funny to shoot people sometimes.
Yeah, for example; should I find an online protestor group I'm going to show them that just because they won't fire doesn't mean I won't.

Honestly, if I can get more points and achievements with them, that makes me very happy.

But I must say, I refuse to bend to their political agenda in a game-world. The purpose of the game is to kill things. It isn't fun when you aren't killing things, because that's what it's about. I ask you, why should I stop enjoying an unreal game to listen to people bitching about the real world problems I'm trying to get off my mind by playing?

Hazmatdeath said:
Honestly, video games are a place to unwind and get away from the real world, how would you like it if your "planet terror" or another pointless movie was suddenly interrupted to protest the genocide of zombies? some mediums of entertainment should really be left free of moral and political propaganda. Each person believes what he wants to, but you don't need to disrupt people's game to spread your views, that is a private environment where people are just trying to have fun, I don't need people trying to shove their ideals in my face when i'm trying to kill people. Do they really think trying to protest violence in a game where violence is the main objective as a smart idea? I mean, people know what games they buy, they made the conscious decision to play violent games, so, why would they change their mind if a bunch of protesters are spamming their servers, wouldn't that deter you fro, wanting to listen to the views of that particular group?
You've got the right idea.
 

MorkFromOrk

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I'm not against violence in video games per se but I do find it disturbing the excessive amount of gratuitously violent video games pumped out each year by callous game developers. Most gamer's don't think about it twice but if they actually stepped back from the gaming console or gaming PC a few paces they might just wonder..."Hey, why are we spending so much of our free time pretending that we're murdering each other in armed combat?"

Not to mention how war is glorified and portrayed purely from a one sided, usually pro-American, perspective in video games. The "Hey, it's just a game" excuse doesn't wash anymore when you have millions of people spending hours of their day pretending that they're murdering another human being because they were told so and so is a terrorist and deserves to die. Sounds rather Orwellian, does it not?
 

Evil Tim

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level250geek said:
I'm not disagreeing with you. All I'm saying is, like shooters or not (and I rather like them myself), they do indeed sanitize and romanticize warfare. So if somebody says "Hey, this game makes war look fun!" and voices their opinion saying so, they have a point. So long as they don't ruin the actual game play for everybody else, then I will respect both their opinion and their expression of it.
But they only have a point if they imagine that the player doesn't already know that, which is condescending in the extreme. I doubt many gamers are so utterly dense as to imagine real warfare is as simplistic and entertaining as a game of Counter-Strike, and by imagining all players who enjoy such a game are that dense they're just showing how little regard they hold for any viewpoint but their own.

The America's Army guy is probably the best example of this; he apparently believed that nobody playing the game could possibly realise that real people had died in a war, so took it as his perogative to spam the in-game chat with names of the dead. It requires a special kind of arrogant stupidity to believe this to be in any way useful or necessary.

MorkFromOrk said:
Not to mention how war is glorified and portrayed purely from a one sided, usually pro-American, perspective in video games. The "Hey, it's just a game" excuse doesn't wash anymore when you have millions of people spending hours of their day pretending that they're murdering another human being because they were told so and so is a terrorist and deserves to die. Sounds rather Orwellian, does it not?
Nonsense. Imagining oneself as a hero in a morally black-and-white world is simple escapism; we go to those worlds because we wish to inhabit, however briefly, a world where we are necessarily righteous and our enemies necessarily unrighteous. This is why games proclaiming themselves to be morally complex like Haze and Blacksite failed so miserably; nobody wants to put themselves in the shoes of a man who isn't allowed to achieve anything in order to teach the player An Important Lesson That War Is Bad.

As for why so many games are set in modern warfare situations or WW2, it's simple: laziness. If you use a contemporary or past setting, you don't have to invent your own weapons, terrain or scenarios, nor do you have to explain who the bad guys are or why they're the bad guys. It's like instant FPS, just add water and a couple of control gimmicks. Even some supposedly futuristic games like Halo and Killzone do this: most of the Marine hardware in Halo is based on contemporary equipment, and Killzone is basically just anime Nazis versus modern US Marines. In fact, you have it backwards; the game uses your existing recognition that the enemies are bad to avoid explaining why they're bad, it doesn't try to convince you they are.

Trying to make out a political message where there isn't one just shows you have trouble percieving anything except in terms of left or right wing politics. Nobody is pretending they're murdering another human being; the enemy avatar only has two real properties; you die if it shoots you, and it dies if you shoot it. It has no beliefs, no motives, and no purpose in the universe but to fire bullets at you. Any idiot can see such an object is not a human being. You are told to go that way, these things try to stop you, so you stop them stopping you. Nothing Orwellian about that.
 

level250geek

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Evil Tim said:
level250geek said:
I'm not disagreeing with you. All I'm saying is, like shooters or not (and I rather like them myself), they do indeed sanitize and romanticize warfare. So if somebody says "Hey, this game makes war look fun!" and voices their opinion saying so, they have a point. So long as they don't ruin the actual game play for everybody else, then I will respect both their opinion and their expression of it.
But they only have a point if they imagine that the player doesn't already know that, which is condescending in the extreme. I doubt many gamers are so utterly dense as to imagine real warfare is as simplistic and entertaining as a game of Counter-Strike, and by imagining all players who enjoy such a game are that dense they're just showing how little regard they hold for any viewpoint but their own.

The America's Army guy is probably the best example of this; he apparently believed that nobody playing the game could possibly realise that real people had died in a war, so took it as his perogative to spam the in-game chat with names of the dead. It requires a special kind of arrogant stupidity to believe this to be in any way useful or necessary.
I can see your point, and I do agree that often protest--be it in video games or on the City Hall steps or in front of the Washington Monument--have at least a small degree of condescension to them.

All of this leads me to say that if you want to truly criticize video games for showing a squeaky clean image of war, then make a video game that doesn't. Make a video game that shows war in its true, brutal form. Now that is a form of protest that lacks condescension and moves the industry forward all at the same time.
 

level250geek

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Razada said:
If your going to preach a political message, preach it where someone might give a damn and it wont cause them intense rage. A bunch of people in Stormwind preaching can be ignored. Half your team covering the walls in roses cannot.
That's pretty much what I've been saying, but not really knowing how. Thanks!
 

Evil Tim

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level250geek said:
Make a video game that shows war in its true, brutal form. Now that is a form of protest that lacks condescension and moves the industry forward all at the same time.
The problem is that such an opt-in method of delivering your message is fundamentally democratic, while protesting is fundamentally undemocratic; it's about giving disportionate focus to a particular view in a way that's hard to disregard. The protestor's mindset is that loud, annoying public demonstrations get their message out better than simply putting it somewhere people might pick it up and read it of their own accord.

Plus, such games seldom work because, particular with FPS games, the actual way the game functions runs counter to the message you're trying to deliver. Neither Haze or Blacksite could hide their derision for their own subject matter, and being asked to play through a game that's constantly bitching at you for enjoying it and refusing to show any positive side to anything you do is stupid; the game just becomes a chore, only it's an amazingly emo chore that keeps telling you that you shouldn't be doing it.

A game that proclaims it shows the realities of war still needs to show courage, duty, heroism and sacrifice if it wants to be anything but the opposite kind of one-sided. CoD: World at War is fairly good in that respect, not hiding the vicious, even monstrous acts that occur during the campaign, but also showing loyalty between soldiers, officers who want to get their men home, and so on. The logic that a game where you can die already really needs a list of real-life deaths to 'give perspective' or whatever, on the other hand, is just going to make tedious games that whine at the player for doing the things they have to do to finish the levels.
 

in_95

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Jul 2, 2008
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What a waste of time.

I do apreciate the irony, though- well intentioned "artist" types with no talent engage in trolling behaviour to get themselves noticed. Exactly what actual trolls would do, only not so massively pretentious.
 

TinyMAG

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May 7, 2009
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It's a bad idea, servers are not the place or the time. It's that simple, they've got the wrong idea about gamers, true gamers do not play because we're all bloodthirsty rampaging sociopaths that love and support war, we play because it's a challenge, because when 16 guys form a clan and that clan goes forth to pwn all across the board - it is FUN.

If a group of people ran out into the highway to form a human chain so that all drivers would think about the danger of someone getting run over....few would cry when the semi doing 70mph wasn't able to stop in time....
 

LANCE420

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Dec 23, 2008
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Papopapo456 said:
"-Look! Those persons are having fun.
-Oh My! This is totally wrong.
-Yeah! They are having fun with virtual murder, which has no consequence on the real world and helps with the stress.
-We should do something.
- I know, lets throw a big bunch of grenades to where they are, while shouting loudly. Because grenades are totally safe, aren't they?
- Of Course!"

That's how those jerks think.
I do enjoy ruining these protests when I suddenly interrupt their flow with sudden gunfire and grenades and obtuse and often obscene sentence fragments.

You want to protest? Do it in real life where someone might actually care!
 

Lord_Ascendant

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Jan 14, 2008
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Pacifism+Counter-Strike=?

I don't get this let me try my other approach.

X^2*Pac(0-π+I)
_______________
5Y^3/3(Counter+Strike)+∞=♥?

Nope still nothing. And darn trying to find all those symbols was hard.
 

Valdsator

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I agree with most of the people here. The only thing these protesters are doing is just making players annoyed. I just love how they think they're all right and try to force this on other people trying to blow some steam off.

"Alright, we've 'ruined' Counter-Strike, now let's move on to World of Warcraft!"

/facepalm
 

JWAN

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Dec 27, 2008
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unlike in the real world you can just ban them or constantley kill them in game

OR you can get on your mic and say your 3000 "KILL's" for the day as if your Drill Instructor is standing right behind you and is about to give you a good old fashioned quarter deck
 

Killersamman

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James McGrath said:
War and Peace

Do pacifists have any place in Counter-Strike? Have online games become the new City Hall steps? Could the next Million Man March be in a virtual world? James McGrath talks to a pair of in-game protesters about anti-war griefing in online games.

Read Full Article
Think of the lag if they did do that million mam march. It would probably have to be a million man step...
 

Muphin_Mann

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Kojiro ftt said:
Protesting in Counterstrike? What dumb idea. They are no better than douchebags who run in the opposite direction and hide to grief everyone. If it was my server, I'd pull out the ban hammer faster that you can say "no good dirty hippy" in a Cartman voice. People play games precisely because they are NOT political. And it is NOT a public space. It is a private server. Get off my lawn.
The way i see it if you have the right to be a biggot and ban them then they have the right to enter your servers and try to protest. Clearly the game has political connotations to you or you wouldnt be offended by them protesting. If it has political connotations to you then they have a reason to protest your pro-war opinion. You only encourage them by fighting them.
 

Evil Tim

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Muphin_Mann said:
The way i see it if you have the right to be a biggot and ban them then they have the right to enter your servers and try to protest. Clearly the game has political connotations to you or you wouldnt be offended by them protesting.
That's ludicrous. If I kick someone out of my house for being a pain in the ass, they do not have the right to re-enter my house in order to complain. A server is private property, and the admin has the right to ban anyone they like for any reason they like or no reason at all.

They are not being booted for their political beliefs. They are being booted because they are screwing up the game like any other griefer. They're just being a lot more pretentious about it.
 

not a zaar

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Checking out that Velvet-Strike website, they also have sprays which depict homosexual love between the player models. Making a statement about war and violence in Counter Strike makes sense, but the gay spray models just confirms that these are trolls, not protesters.
 

Xivilai87

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Mar 11, 2009
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thankfully i havent seen anything like this in my online games yet.

i'll admit to their right to protest. the way i see it, everyone had to pay $50 for their game, so they can play it however they like.

but flashbang a person whos trying to play their own way, just so you can make sure they know that real war is hell, isnt that just virtual terrorism? causing distress to someone who is just their to enjoy themselves.

personally, if i saw this, it would be a source of entertainment. if i saw this in a game of battlefield 2, that little "peace and love heart", would be the center of an airstrike/artillery shelling/vehicle rammings.


protest all you like, but no one has the right to stop me from playing a game just so they can FORCE ME to understand their opinion on war.
 

ideitbawx

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Jan 4, 2008
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Beery said:
"if I get into a game of Unreal Tournament 3 or Halo 3 and somebody is engaging in a peace rally, one of two things will happen: if you are my opponent, you will be marked as an easy kill and you will cost your team a good deal of points"

Okay, but isn't that kinda the point of the protest? I mean if they're protesting, isn't it a good thing from their perspective if they cost someone points? Protest that bothers no one is not protest. The whole point is to get you motivated to do something about the issue. They don't achieve that by making people like what they're doing.
but that doesn't stop the fact that if the other side wants battle, they're not going to give a shit about your protest. you're trying to win hearts and minds and they don't care about your message, therefore you're an easy kill.

protesting the iraq war certainly stopped president monkeyface from invading--oh, wait ...
 

Glerken

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*sigh* Just griefers with a cause.

Let me play my counter strike, and I promise I wont go kill things in real life.

But really, I don't understand what's wrong with killing pixels. FAKE pixels.
No life is actually lost. It doesn't make me want to go to war. It's fun.