2022 French Presidential Election

[Silvanus]

No i describe leftist anti-progressive ideology as pseudo progressive. And unfortunately it's an ideology which has spread like an aggressive cancer among the left in Europe.

So what exactly have I done to be "anti-progressive" in this exchange? I've spoken against clothing bans, for animal welfare etc. What evil anti-progressive stances have I taken? Just refusing to sling mud or stereotype?

I did say "Continental Western European". It is true some right wing parties care less about LGBT's than others. However a constant is that most of them do not wish harm upon the LGBT. And for that there is a constant among a the moderate right. For instance I have my serious doubts about allowing minors to transition but I wouldn't wish any harm upon Trans people and am truly angry when hearing about stories of Trans people being assaulted or harassed. The left will say I am behind the times for the former but will happily obfuscate Trans people are more in physical danger in some areas due to pervasive religious (ultra) conservatism. The irony with it all is that the biggest victim of the left wings policies are progressive women, homosexuals and trans people from these communities. They are probably the most vulnerable minorities and they're being thrown under the bus in the name of a corrupt ideology which only upholds its standards to "The Privileged".

Jesus. So your bar is just not actively wishing harm? And if someone meets that bar, but also stands in the way of equal rights (as the right wing parties throughout Europe have done) then that's good enough for you?

No, fuck that, you don't get to count as being supportive by simply not being a violent monster.

The hyper partisan rhetoric is on your side though. My rhetoric has been proven by experience, testimonies and even the study I linked which clearly shows the Muslim community is very conservative.

You've been throwing personal insults and accusations, painting your opponents as a monolith, and terming any disagreement as "pseudo progressive" to automatically delegitimise it. All more partisan, degrading rhetoric than I've employed. Look in the mirror.

The rest of the post is a mess of strawmen (well, further supporting what I said above). "Good luck teaching evolution"-- what the fuck are you on about? Literally nothing I said would hinder that. I want it mandated. What I don't support is the wish to use it as a culture war issue, to sling shit at groups you don't like by falsely characterising them all as against it.... kind of like you're weakly trying to do to me right now.

 

[Generals]

So what exactly have I done to be "anti-progressive" in this exchange? I've spoken against clothing bans, for animal welfare etc. What evil anti-progressive stances have I taken? Just refusing to sling mud or stereotype?

Defending a regressive ideology and doing what pseudo progressives tend to do best: obfuscate to appease (non white/privileged(?)) ultra conservative elements. Here's the problem, you cannot get me. I am not your average white village inhabitant who votes RN/Vlaams Belang/UKIP/AFD/Whatever, I have spent quite some time right there in a city that has a very prominent and visible muslim minority. I have made friends and met people from all backgrounds, I have lived my fair share of shitty experiences and heard many more. And all this always ends up being confirmed by events, investigative journalism and some studies who dare venture into it.
And that's also the reason why I am so pissed at pseudo progressives, I have seen the consequences of Socialist obfuscation and lies. I have heard the anger from progressives from these communities about the worsening situation and their discourse that is usually extremely critical. (Even more so than me sometimes)

Jesus. So your bar is just not actively wishing harm?

It's a strict minimum which isn't even met with a lot of people those pseudo leftists go after to have their approval. And honestly not wishing any harm and desiring very little to no restrictions depending on the party/country is actually already quite good. (and again, much much better than people who actively wish them to burn in hell)

And if someone meets that bar, but also stands in the way of equal rights (as the right wing parties throughout Europe have done) then that's good enough for you?

"Have done". Past tense, no further comment needed.

No, fuck that, you don't get to count as being supportive by simply not being a violent monster.

But you get to claim you are supportive by defending violent monsters (by minimizing/hiding their problematic behavior and ideologies).

You've been throwing personal insults and accusations, painting your opponents as a monolith, and terming any disagreement as "pseudo progressive" to automatically delegitimise it. All more partisan, degrading rhetoric than I've employed. Look in the mirror.

Oh please, the pseudo progressive movements have dismissed their opponents as racists, fascists, islamophobes and other insults with strong negative connotations. Pseudo progressive is not only tame compared to that but based on the displayed behavior a factual statement. Don't want to be called out for it, stop defending it. I am actually tired to see people hijack a word with a positive connotation like "progress" for an ideology that has become all but about actual progress.

The rest of the post is a mess of strawmen (well, further supporting what I said above). "Good luck teaching evolution"-- what the fuck are you on about? Literally nothing I said would hinder that. I want it mandated. What I don't support is the wish to use it as a culture war issue, to sling shit at groups you don't like by falsely characterising them all as against it.... kind of like you're weakly trying to do to me right now.

Again, you said I was making "hysterical" claims, teachers have testified teaching "sensitive" subjects like Evolution has become pretty damn hard in problematic areas/schools. Based on your logic the problem is quite minimal.

Again, stop defending pseudo progressive bullshit and i'll stop characterizing you as one. You are using every single trick in the playbook. You are defending fundamentalism through obfuscation and denouncing people who do bring the problem(s) to light. That's not being "progressive", it's the exact opposite, you are supposed to actively call out fundamentalism.

 

[Silvanus]

Defending a regressive ideology and doing what pseudo progressives tend to do best: obfuscate to appease (non white/privileged(?)) ultra conservative elements.

I haven't done or said a single thing to "appease" that regressive ideology. You're seeningly incapable of comprehending that people can oppose reactionary bullshit like clothing bans while also refusing to compromise on the actually objectionable parts of religious extremism. At every turn, you just lump it all together.


The rest of the paragraph is the intellectual equivalent of "I have X friends", so we can just ignore it.

It's a strict minimum which isn't even met with a lot of people those pseudo leftists go after to have their approval. And honestly not wishing any harm and desiring very little to no restrictions depending on the party/country is actually already quite good. (and again, much much better than people who actively wish them to burn in hell)

Uh-huh, but progressives act to prevent actual violence, oppression and crime from those communities. What they haven't done is endorsed a suite of unrelated, pointless restrictions like clothing bans and mandating saying "Christmas". Because that has nothing at all to do with actual religious extremism, and everything to do with culture-war point-scoring from the right.

But you get to claim you are supportive by defending violent monsters (by minimizing/hiding their problematic behavior and ideologies).

Literally nothing I said minimised or defended violence. Stop with that disgusting accusatory drivel.

If you can't tell the difference between opposing violence and banning clothes, then that's your problem. You have no wish to engage with what I'm saying.