21st Century Children and Respect

[nuba km]

snip

Disclaimer: this paragraph is talking about the kids who do act like dicks not the entire generation, just making it clear I am not generalizing

see I don't think its a lack of respect it is a lack of consequences, its the same reason people are dicks on the internet. They have learned that whatever they do the consequences aren't significant enough, bully someone who's weaker then you they are unable to stand up to you in a manor that has a consequence to you. If they miss behave and get grounded they still have their phone, computer or gaming device, they can't be hit. miss behaves in school, gets a note that says so. As long as they don't get caught doing anything illegal they never learn about consequence hence they feel like they can do what they want to do and it will take many major consequences for them to learn that they are wrong at this point.

 

[Dorian6]

You sound just like the old people who complain that our generation is so screwed up. Seems like everyone complains about the people who come after them without a hint of self-awareness.

You're also doing that thing where you see a few kids acting like dicks, so you assume they're all like that.

 

[HardkorSB]

Recently, I was talking to my 12-year-old brother and his friend, and I was shocked to discover that they didn't find Dead Space scary. Well, okay, not everyone does... but as I delved into the subject with them, I grew increasingly disturbed to find that they didn't consider ANYTHING scary. Friday the 13th, Doom 3, Alien, the Thing, etc...

I saw "The Thing" when I was 7 and it didn't scare me one bit. I liked it (and still do to this day) but it wasn't scary. Same with every other horror movie. I guess it's got something to do with the fact that I could differentiate between a movie and reality. Real things can be scary sometimes, movies aren't (for me, at least).

I understand now all of the problems with today's youth. Whenever someone says that something is wrong with a modern child, I will now know the cause of that. It's not video games making them more violent. It's not TV making them stupid. It's not TV showing them sex. It's that they don't RESPECT anything.

First of all, that's generalizing on a macro scale.
Second of all (assuming that it's true), respect is earned. The youth sees how the previous generations fucked up everything, both socially and environmentally. They see how our current society, despite being technologically advanced, is just one big mess.
They are way more socially aware than any other generation ever was (which is only possible now, thanks to the wonderful invention of the internet).
The "grown ups" aren't giving them a great example to begin with. The "do as I say, not as I do" thing has never been successful.
And another thing (the most obvious one):
The world that they're growing up in is a different place from the world their parents were growing up in. Of course they're going to be different.

Modern (American, let me make myself clear that I mean American and, to a lesser extent, British and Australian children throughout this) children are raised in varying environments, but with one unifying factor: they are somehow taught not to respect anything, and to take it all for granted.

And who is teaching them that?

They don't respect any forms of entertainment that they are provided with, they just use them up and moan when it isn't there (technically, children have been doing this for a while, but I think it's worse now.). They don't respect their lives, they just waddle along without even considering what they do or don't have. They don't even respect their parents, I don't think. They may pretend to, or even think they do, but this is just to keep them on the same side.

Again, who's fault is that?
They didn't make things this way, they were just born here. Everything is a consequence of the fuck ups of the previous generations.

Also, the youth today is less violent, less racist, less sexist, less prejudiced and very likely (although that could be debated but I still think so) smarter than their predecessors.
It's just that they don't conform to the old rules.

I'm not sure if I'm just imagining this, so... thoughts?

You may not be imagining the difference between them and older people but you are imagining that you know why that difference is there.

 

[platinawolf]

Kids show you plenty of respect, as long as you do the same to them. Ofcourse there are the occasional bad seed but in general I've found that as long as you make sure to treat children with the same respect as you would an adult, they show the same to you. Ofcourse, sometimes you have to sit down and let them explain their way of thought and you might struggle a bit making them understand what you mean but as long as the mutual respect is there, kids are wonderful

 

[Dasick]

A good example of the logical fallacy of generalization.

You know, people keep saying that generalization is a logical fallacy, but I am not convinced. How is it a fallacy to look at trends and patterns, and derive common elements from them?

?Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.?

That quote is attributed to Socrates in about 400-ish BC. The tradition of complaining about the youth of today is an ancient one indeed.

So? All this means is that we've been slowly degrading at least since Socratic times. And since we're using witty sayings to prove our cases, "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." There are less things around to not kill us, therefore we are weaker.

2. How the hell do you get from ''Doesn't find movie scary.'' to ''Obviously has no respect.''

3. Respect is to be earned, not to be given. THAT is where the problem lies. Not people not being willing to give respect, people just expecting to get it for no reason. It's like the idea of respecting people because they are older then your are.

Someone mentioned it before me, but it's less about respect and more about not understanding consequences and taking things for granted, caused by sheltering and over protection.

''Doesn't find movie scary'' indicates a lack of imagination and understanding of the concept of danger.

Why? Do Idiots and Fuck-Ups not age?

Respecting your elders is an idea that dates back to the times when "natural selection" was still a thing humans did.

 

[Suicidejim]

As soon as the 'no respect' refrain comes in, I can't help but read it in a cranky old man voice. It sounds a bit like Bob Kelso from Scrubs. As far as I can see, every generation is supposedly 'the worst generation ever,' but yet we don't seem to have destroyed the planet yet. Kids stopped being respectful after we got rid of child labour laws. They also stopped being respectful after we dropped capital punishment. They stopped being respectful because of rock and roll, and then comics, and then punk, and rap, and TV, and movies, and Nirvana, and videogames, and the internet, and so on. Kids probably haven't been respectful for a few millennia now.

How many people actually did respect their parents as a kid, in a mature kind of way, rather than just doing what they said so you didn't get in crap? Who, as kids, looked at their parents as people? I sure didn't. My mum was a Mum, not a person. She didn't have fears or worries or doubts like anyone else, and she was always right. Then I grew up and saw her as a person, and saw all her flaws and anxieties and insecurities, and I did respect her (my Dad, on the other hand . . . less so). I don't think that's the sort of thing you should either want or expect from a child. To a kid, a parent is a force of nature.

Also, not respecting something has little to do with fear. I don't respect serial murderers, but I'll shit myself like anyone else if one tries carving me up.

 

[Dasick]

..Snip..

Second of all (assuming that it's true), respect is earned. The youth sees how the previous generations fucked up everything, both socially and environmentally. They see how our current society, despite being technologically advanced, is just one big mess.
They are way more socially aware than any other generation ever was (which is only possible now, thanks to the wonderful invention of the internet).

"Socially aware"? What good does it do that they know our world is fucked up if they're not gonna do anything about it? Most of the youth activism I've seen so far was IMHO is pretty useless.

Money raising, for example, is a pretty suspect activity because it's money, and you never know what it will be used for. Maybe it will build some black kids a school (yay!). Maybe it will end up in the pockets of a scumbag scammer.

Petitions is something the older generation is also good at, as Archie and his gay pals have demonstrated and I recon they've had about the same effect.

Things like the "Earth Hour" are nice, but are ineffective and some claim that massive blackouts like that are actually hurtful to our energy consumption (dunno, but if you've ever read the comments for any news article mentioning Earth hour someone is bound to bring it up)

Real social change requires immense amount of dedication and commitment (looking at the marriage and divorce rates tells me this generation kind of sucks at that. Also, ADD). It requires radical lifestyle alterations, and you rarely hear about that kind of people.


[quote/]

..Snip..

Also, the youth today is less violent, less racist, less sexist, less prejudiced and very likely (although that could be debated but I still think so) smarter than their predecessors.
It's just that they don't conform to the old rules.
[/quote]

First of all, knowledge does not mean intelligence. It's what you do with that knowledge. Our generation is being force fed knowledge at insane rates, we're forced to filter out most of it, and as a result, ADD is developed. Internet is a great tool, too bad people rarely use it properly.

Also, the thing about violence is that the current zero-violence policies amongst schools are punitive of things like self-defence, aid of others and even speaking your opinion. Similar policies exist that discourage any physical contact between students. Kids today live in isolationist bubbles, and I see that as a problem.

As for prejudice... it's still there. People will ostracise you if you go against the norm, it's just what is acceptable and what isn't has shifted. You can even see it on these forums, with people casually bashing religion and everyone who is religious but you jokingly state that you understand the reason behind gender roles as a result of a depressing experience and you'll be billowing a shit-storm. And possible face mod action.

Also, this is a good read, especially the comments section. Most of my points are covered and in greater detail. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/9533-Kids-Today]

 

[Suicidejim]

I know I had friends with M rated games growing up. My parents kept a firm leash on me, and I didn't get a single M Rated game until I was fourteen.

That bit made me smile a little. "Hey, I had a pretty strict upbringing, I could only play games for adults 3 years early!"

*cue gasps from startled children*

I'm not trying to poke fun, it just amuses me that we've reached the point where not playing mature games as a child is a novelty.

 

[Soviet Steve]

You know, people keep saying that generalization is a logical fallacy, but I am not convinced. How is it a fallacy to look at trends and patterns, and derive common elements from them?

Because it goes from observation of inadequate sample size and without filtering biases, directly to conclusion.

"I saw a disrespectful child once, therefore all children are disrespectful, and more so than previous generations whom I wasn't around to see."

Someone mentioned it before me, but it's less about respect and more about not understanding consequences and taking things for granted, caused by sheltering and over protection.

A failure on the part of the parents and further reason to disrespect them.

Respecting your elders is an idea that dates back to the times when "natural selection" was still a thing humans did.

And when technology was evolving at a pace so slow that the skills of 40 years ago were actually useful to children.

 

[Chemical Alia]

We definitely didn't say the same thing about kids born in the late 80's and 90s. It's like you're the first generation to make weird criticisms and generalizations about kids younger than you.

 

[HardkorSB]

"Socially aware"? What good does it do that they know our world is fucked up if they're not gonna do anything about it? Most of the youth activism I've seen so far was IMHO is pretty useless.

Money raising, for example, is a pretty suspect activity because it's money, and you never know what it will be used for. Maybe it will build some black kids a school (yay!). Maybe it will end up in the pockets of a scumbag scammer.

Petitions is something the older generation is also good at, as Archie and his gay pals have demonstrated and I recon they've had about the same effect.

Things like the "Earth Hour" are nice, but are ineffective and some claim that massive blackouts like that are actually hurtful to our energy consumption (dunno, but if you've ever read the comments for any news article mentioning Earth hour someone is bound to bring it up)

Real social change requires immense amount of dedication and commitment (looking at the marriage and divorce rates tells me this generation kind of sucks at that. Also, ADD). It requires radical lifestyle alterations, and you rarely hear about that kind of people.

Maybe their lack of action is the result of the social awareness?

Or how about things like SOPA? those millions of people who contacted the governments, made protests, petitions etc. That was mainly the youth. The older generations didn't even know about it and if they did, they mostly didn't care or even supported it.
Jessica Alquist? It was the youth who stood up for her.
These are the ones I can think of without checking but there are many more.

First of all, knowledge does not mean intelligence. It's what you do with that knowledge. Our generation is being force fed knowledge at insane rates, we're forced to filter out most of it, and as a result, ADD is developed. Internet is a great tool, too bad people rarely use it properly.

People rarely use anything properly.
The dynamite was invented to help miners but people mainly used it as a weapon. What does that prove? That people misuse things all the time.

Also, the thing about violence is that the current zero-violence policies amongst schools are punitive of things like self-defence, aid of others and even speaking your opinion. Similar policies exist that discourage any physical contact between students. Kids today live in isolationist bubbles, and I see that as a problem.

Kids aren't the ones making these policies. Overprotective parents and politicians pandering to them are. Again, that's the previous generations.

As for prejudice... it's still there. People will ostracise you if you go against the norm, it's just what is acceptable and what isn't has shifted. You can even see it on these forums, with people casually bashing religion and everyone who is religious but you jokingly state that you understand the reason behind gender roles as a result of a depressing experience and you'll be billowing a shit-storm. And possible face mod action.

It's still there but in comparison to 20-30 years ago, there's much less of it.
When one is given new freedoms, one will exercise them. The generation of my parents didn't allow the criticism of religion. I got suspended at school for saying that I don't believe in god. The teachers were treating me like a criminal for a while (why yes, I do live in one of those self-proclaimed Christian nations).
Now that atheists can express their views, they are expressing their views.
Sure, there are always some norms that a particular group takes for granted. I, for example, consider homosexuality to be acceptable but still abnormal. Whenever I say that here, I get criticized. I however, can criticize others for views that I don't approve of. It's called free speech. Here on these forums, you can share your views on anything but they will be knit picked to death. It's a good thing. Less bull shit flies these days.
More and more "unpopular" opinions are accepted.

The "kids today" know more than their parents. When I talk to my parents' generation I can see that most of them are very ignorant. They don't check their facts, they have outdated and dogmatic belief systems and moral values, they demand respect even though their actions are despicable, they often are forcing you to conform to what they think is good, despite you giving them plenty of valid reasons why you don't want to etc.
These things are part of why I lost respect to them. They most likely play a role in kids not respecting their parents.

 

[Dasick]

Because it goes from observation of inadequate sample size and without filtering biases, directly to conclusion.

"I saw a disrespectful child once, therefore all children are disrespectful, and more so than previous generations whom I wasn't around to see."

But we're talking about an internet forum discussion. What the OP shows is just one example that was sitting at the top of their head, and the OP posted it to see if other people have similar experiences. I'm sure the OP is drawing upon a larger base of experiences, but you know, how many can you post before you get tired or make an unreadable wall of text?

A failure on the part of the parents and further reason to disrespect them.

Is it always? Fucking up then getting beaten was always pretty powerful "cause/effect" lesson. How are parents supposed to handle their kids? What measures of discipline are available to them today in the so called civilized countries?

Kids don't understand adult reasons, they're far too complicated for them to comprehend. Sometimes you have to say "trust me, you'll get it later" in a soft voice while holding a big stick.

I don't want to shift blame from parents, but there is a system in place that gives them less control over their children than the systems of the previous generations. Good parents can overcome this, some parents don't even need to use fear of violence to control their children.

I think that being a good parent is a pretty darn hard thing to accomplish anyway, without the handicaps imposed by "children's rights" activists.

And when technology was evolving at a pace so slow that the skills of 40 years ago were actually useful to children.

Hmm, I see your point. So we either have idiots and weaklings in our gene pool, or we advance rapidly in the areas of technology?

Tough call.

 

[DrgoFx]

I know I had friends with M rated games growing up. My parents kept a firm leash on me, and I didn't get a single M Rated game until I was fourteen.

That bit made me smile a little. "Hey, I had a pretty strict upbringing, I could only play games for adults 3 years early!"

*cue gasps from startled children*

I'm not trying to poke fun, it just amuses me that we've reached the point where not playing mature games as a child is a novelty.

I know, it's kind of backwards, isn't it? But no, my parents were just more concerned than others. Once I showed I was capable of playing the games without "acting up" they let me play them. Now that they've seen me play all the games I have, they call bullshit on any psychological story. And I like that, they don't play video games, but they respect them.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Alright, alright, I'll accept now that maybe I didn't put as much thought as I should have into my initial post. YES, I'm only 18, but when I said "Children", I meant ones on the lower scale of age, the pre-teen years. I still believe that you need to respect something on a subconcious level to fear it. And you may not have found the examples I presented scary, but if you think that THAT alone invalidates my point, then you're also missing my point. My point was that they didn't find anything in the vein of horror scary. I should have been more clear in my initial post, I see that now.

Let me also specify that I'm talking more about respect on a subconcious level, i.e., thinking to oneself that something is important. Er, maybe that's still not quite the right wording, but I'm working on that.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Maybe I'm just a moron, but they don't find anything scary because they don't have respect? What?

Yeah, maybe I could have made my logic a little clearer there... my thought is that you have to respect something to fear it.

Still terrible logic.

I stand by it.

Continue to stand by your incredibly flawed and downright stupid logic?
Yeah, you do that.

Damn dude, did I do something to piss you off, or do you just not understand the concept of different people having different opinions?

 

[Zyntoxic]

I've seen it when working in retail. 12 year old kid wants GTA. I warn the parents that the game is rated M and may not be suitable for his/her child. Parent takes time to read the back of the game. Parent says no. Kid pitches fit. Parent says yes.

I'd throw a hissy fit over that. Not because my parents said no, but because they said no as a result of seeing the rating. Ratings are hugely exaggerated. I was watching/playing M and MA movies/games when I was eleven years old. I wasn't any more succeptible to them then than I am now. I think the problem with kids today is that we coddle them and treat them like stupid retards who can't cope with anything or think for themselves. Then we act confused when they start acting up or rebelling. Or worse, when they actually wind up as mindless dumbasses.

I currently work in retail and we are not talking about 11 year olds, I've had as low as a 4 year old have GTA IV in one of the stores I worked in. The parents even asked if GTA was suitable for their kid and when told no they got angry and bought it anyway.
The most common age I get though is 8 for games such as Call of Duty, GTA, Dead Space, Killzone, God of War and others less than suitable games.

I can agree that some of the ratings are unnecessarily high, but parents are so completely unable to say no to their children now a days that it really doesn't matter.
and the thing is there are games that I usually recommend instead but kids only want the highest rated games because they are forbidden, and they usually think they are tougher than the average kid and can handle it, and parents don't really want to tell their kids otherwise.
actually parents WANT to believe that about their kids, one of my best selling tricks is to say a game has horror elements(which most games at some point has) in a somewhat lower voice as to make it seem a little more "forbidden", works really great.


OT: sorry but kids usually come off as disrespectful, but that's the way it has always been and kids probably aren't less respectful now than they were 20-30 years ago.
welcome to the land of the old =D (if it is of any comfort, those that are 10-20 years older than you probably still thinks you are a disrespectful little brat ^_^)

 

[Dasick]

You're using a blatant logical fallacy dude.

You say "You need to respect something to fear it", which is equivalent to "If you fear it, then you respect it". You're taking that to mean "If you don't fear it, you don't respect it." That's the inverse. The truth of the inverse is not related to the truth of the original statement.

Oh cut out that 'different opinions' crap. Just because your opinion is different doesn't mean it deserves respect. Your logic is fallacious, having a different opinion doesn't change that.

thinking to oneself that something is important. Er, maybe that's still not quite the right wording, but I'm working on that.

How about showing some benefit of the doubt to your fellow human being? Discussions go nowhere when you nitpick what was said rather than try to infer what was meant.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

If this is true, you've just antagonised people who are going to be more than happy to punch you int the face.

If this is wrong, you come across as extremely out of touch.

So... one nil to everyone other than you?

I think the reason that, dare I say, my Generation, and the Generation below mine, raise less fingers and hide behind less sofas than older people at things like Alien is because we've seen it parodied, redone, parodied again by another parody, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters. We're used to these things, and aren't as intimidated by them as we know, more or less, what to expect.

Hitchhiker's reference?

Also:

Snip.

Someone won't see what you just did and either try to agree with you or flame you for it. Nicely played though.