21st Century Children and Respect

[Dasick]

Thank you for wasting my time with that hogwash.

He has time to fix what he's said. But there is no reasonable connection between "You need to respect something to fear it" and being able to come to the conclusion that because someone does not fear something they do not respect it.

You think there's a way to make it reasonable through some kind of inference of what he's said? Provide it, don't give me your feelgood crap about how I should give him the benefit of the doubt. That's worthless, provide real content for discussion.

Reading comprehension failure. OP has stated this:

Let me also specify that I'm talking more about respect on a subconcious level, i.e., thinking to oneself that something is important. Er, maybe that's still not quite the right wording, but I'm working on that.

That means he's not talking about respect per se. He's using that word to mean a more complicated thought which I can't find a word for either, but the OP states the intention explicitly and it is there in the original post if you take the time to try and read it and understand the OP's intention instead of rushing to act all posh - "Pfft, thank you for wasting my time, you unworthy plebeian."

The logical fallacy of "You need to respect something to fear it" is replaced by "You need to think to yourself that something is important to fear it".

Which is an entirely correct statement, as far as I am concerned. Why do you fear something if you don't think it can negatively can affect you in any meaningful way? Even phobias are rooted into deep-seated evolutionary understanding that something can affect you meaningfully in a negative way.

 

[Exocet]

Can it be that current gen movies/games aren't really scary in the first place?
Dead Space relies on gore, Doom 3 on startling, Alien is more stressful than frightening, etc...

Put your brother and his friend at night and put on the Neverending Story. The Gmork will make him do a back-flip to hide behind the couch.

Failing that, if he's 12, and seen a lot of scary movies, maybe he's been desensitized...

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Can it be that current gen movies/games aren't really scary in the first place?
Dead Space relies on gore, Doom 3 on startling, Alien is more stressful than frightening, etc...

Put your brother and his friend at night and put on the Neverending Story. The Gmork will make him do a back-flip to hide behind the couch.

Failing that, if he's 12, and seen a lot of scary movies, maybe he's been desensitized...

To reiterate, my point had nothing to do with the examples. My point was merely that they didn't find ANYTHING scary.

The desensitized thing would rather fall under what I was talking about, that modern children are in an environment where few things are percieved with real significance... or something.

 

[RagTagBand]

Well OP is clearly an idiot, and a second rate idiot at that. I don't know how he came to the conclusion that "being fearless" is the same as "Lacking respect" but I imagine a lot of paint had to be huffed to come to it.

But I will, as I do in every thread that attempts to call out the "Youth" as being terrible and not at all like the respectful generation the OP comes from, Quote Socrates from over 2000 years ago.

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers. They think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all
restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes
for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are
forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress."

If you are under the impression that your generation was modest, respectful and free from the troubles of the generation that proceeds you...you are simply wrong; The generation that preceded yours said that same shit about you.

And, rest assured, that the Generation you're now vilifying will soon come to vilify their replacements too.

 

[bullet_sandw1ch]

yeah, are you trying to say i dont respect my parents? dont generalize like that, itll get you in shit. and i dont find any of that scary, i laughed in friday the 13th, does that make me unrespectful of something? like im supposed to be scared of jason, AKA the ultimate cock blocker, or he who kills victims that are banging. i respect things that can or will hurt me (if they wish), like a 50. desert eagle,georges st.pierre, or a nuclear bomb.

 

[Mordekaien]

Maybe I'm just a moron, but they don't find anything scary because they don't have respect? What?

Yeah, maybe I could have made my logic a little clearer there... my thought is that you have to respect something to fear it.

well as I understand it, people are fearing the unknown, something they don't understand, like uncanny valley effect for instance. I think respect is in other category altogether.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Since when did "being afraid toward a film" = respect? For all you know maybe they did like the film but did not find it scary at all?

 

[NiPah]

Recently, I was talking to my 12-year-old brother and his friend, and I was shocked to discover that they didn't find Dead Space scary. Well, okay, not everyone does... but as I delved into the subject with them, I grew increasingly disturbed to find that they didn't consider ANYTHING scary. Friday the 13th, Doom 3, Alien, the Thing, etc... and something clicked for me. I understand now all of the problems with today's youth. Whenever someone says that something is wrong with a modern child, I will now know the cause of that. It's not video games making them more violent. It's not TV making them stupid. It's not TV showing them sex. It's that they don't RESPECT anything.

Modern (American, let me make myself clear that I mean American and, to a lesser extent, British and Australian children throughout this) children are raised in varying environments, but with one unifying factor: they are somehow taught not to respect anything, and to take it all for granted. They don't respect any forms of entertainment that they are provided with, they just use them up and moan when it isn't there (technically, children have been doing this for a while, but I think it's worse now.). They don't respect their lives, they just waddle along without even considering what they do or don't have. They don't even respect their parents, I don't think. They may pretend to, or even think they do, but this is just to keep them on the same side. I know my brother takes my dad for granted; he doesn't consider him a person, more a force of nature that will always be there, giving him whatever he wants. This is why he shows so much surpise whenever my Dad shows any kind of emotion.

I'm not sure if I'm just imagining this, so... thoughts?

Yeah you and every generation for the past 8000 years

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless
beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and
impatient of restraint.~Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
Plato, 4th Century BC

"The world is passing through troubling times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."~Extract from a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274.

and my favorite:

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect
their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently
inhabit taverns and have no self control."

-found in an Egyptian tomb

To answer your question, kids will be kids, and adults will always be annoyed by them.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Maybe I'm just a moron, but they don't find anything scary because they don't have respect? What?

Yeah, maybe I could have made my logic a little clearer there... my thought is that you have to respect something to fear it.

well as I understand it, people are fearing the unknown, something they don't understand, like uncanny valley effect for instance. I think respect is in other category altogether.

Hmm, that's a fair point... you suggest that modern children don't fear things because they understand them... that's actually not a bad idea, since they follow in the footsteps of the generation that was raised on horror, and therefore would hear about a lot of classic horror in a secondhand format.

At any rate, your response has been a lot better than most of the ones I've gotten, which have extended no further than "I don't understand your logic, THEREFORE UR STOOPID."

 

[Nieroshai]

I guess I have a lack of respect then...

A good example of the logical fallacy of generalization.

Well said Mr.Spock, well said.

To quote two people in one fell swoop, here goes:

Generalization is only a fallacy when it claims ALL are a certain way, as opposed to SOME or MOST. To say most are a certain way would be generalizing, but would not be a fallacy if 50.00000000000000000000000000001% fit the generalization. To say some are a certain way would not be false unless there was absolutely no one who fit the generalization. Therefore, it is a fallacy to assume all generalizations are false.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Congratulations on missing the problem. Notice how your hypothetical correction does NOT fix the problem I stated. If you say "You need to think something is important to fear it" you still cannot draw conclusions from a lack of fear. Which is the problem I pointed out with his original statement.

So just because YOU don't understand my logic, because you haven't spent months considering the connections between fear and acknowledgement of something's importance as I have, means I'm wrong? Fascinating.

 

[Dasick]

A lack of imagination?

Sounds alot like ''a lack of MY imagination''.

Erm.. pelase clarify. I don't think I get what you're trying to say here.

Danger? Some people understand that the flickering Pictures on the screen are...just flickering pictures on a screen. Why would you be so emotionally attached to it as to sense danger?

And what's the point in seeing film that way? We don't care about flickering pictures on screen. Only when they start to tell a story, when the actors in funny suits become dear friends and bitter enemies, when your mind thinks about the events as if it were reality do we find the pastime to be worthy of our time.

It's... disturbing that people are loosing that quality.

Even better, considering that the Danger tends to be entirely fabricated by the Characters being morons, how am I, a person with a functioning brain, supposed to actually consider the situation dangerous?
*snip*

That's a problem with the film industry itself. But kids rarely care about that. It's much easier for the them to get engrossed with the story than adults... at least that's the way it usually worked. See above.

Why? Do Idiots and Fuck-Ups not age?

Respecting your elders is an idea that dates back to the times when "natural selection" was still a thing humans did.

Your point? It is and always has been a idiotic notion to respect someone for what amounts to ''because''.

My point is that there was once a time when idiots and fuck ups did not live to be of age that commands respect.

 

[Nieroshai]

Alright, alright, I'll accept now that maybe I didn't put as much thought as I should have into my initial post. YES, I'm only 18, but when I said "Children", I meant ones on the lower scale of age, the pre-teen years. I still believe that you need to respect something on a subconcious level to fear it. And you may not have found the examples I presented scary, but if you think that THAT alone invalidates my point, then you're also missing my point. My point was that they didn't find anything in the vein of horror scary. I should have been more clear in my initial post, I see that now.

Let me also specify that I'm talking more about respect on a subconcious level, i.e., thinking to oneself that something is important. Er, maybe that's still not quite the right wording, but I'm working on that.

You're using a blatant logical fallacy dude.

You say "You need to respect something to fear it", which is equivalent to "If you fear it, then you respect it". You're taking that to mean "If you don't fear it, you don't respect it." That's the inverse. The truth of the inverse is not related to the truth of the original statement.

Maybe I'm just a moron, but they don't find anything scary because they don't have respect? What?

Yeah, maybe I could have made my logic a little clearer there... my thought is that you have to respect something to fear it.

Still terrible logic.

I stand by it.

Continue to stand by your incredibly flawed and downright stupid logic?
Yeah, you do that.

Damn dude, did I do something to piss you off, or do you just not understand the concept of different people having different opinions?

Oh cut out that 'different opinions' crap. Just because your opinion is different doesn't mean it deserves respect. Your logic is fallacious, having a different opinion doesn't change that.

Doesn't give you the justification to be butthurt. Heck, I think he's wrong and you're annoying me and likely others. Which you have a right to do, but you're whining.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

And what's the point in seeing film that way? We don't care about flickering pictures on screen. Only when they start to tell a story, when the actors in funny suits become dear friends and bitter enemies, when your mind thinks about the events as if it were reality do we find the pastime to be worthy of our time.

It's... disturbing that people are loosing that quality.

^Trufax.

 

[Mordekaien]

Maybe I'm just a moron, but they don't find anything scary because they don't have respect? What?

Yeah, maybe I could have made my logic a little clearer there... my thought is that you have to respect something to fear it.

well as I understand it, people are fearing the unknown, something they don't understand, like uncanny valley effect for instance. I think respect is in other category altogether.

Hmm, that's a fair point... you suggest that modern children don't fear things because they understand them... that's actually not a bad idea, since they follow in the footsteps of the generation that was raised on horror, and therefore would hear about a lot of classic horror in a secondhand format.

At any rate, your response has been a lot better than most of the ones I've gotten, which have extended no further than "I don't understand your logic, THEREFORE UR STOOPID."

I think that it's mostly due to technology, CGI in movies etc. You see too much, that before would have been covered or obscured due to technological limitations from that time. On the other hand, this lets audience filling those blank parts with their imagination. I am still pissing myself whenever I re-watch the old Clash of Titans, the scene with medusa... that shit is scary as hell even by todays standarts

For the respect/fear thing:

For example, I respect firefighters, officers or doctors, do I fear them? No.
But I don't show the same respect for clowns, yet they creep me out, those buggers. (no offense to any clowns here )

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Congratulations on missing the problem. Notice how your hypothetical correction does NOT fix the problem I stated. If you say "You need to think something is important to fear it" you still cannot draw conclusions from a lack of fear. Which is the problem I pointed out with his original statement.

So just because YOU don't understand my logic, because you haven't spent months considering the connections between fear and acknowledgement of something's importance as I have, means I'm wrong? Fascinating.

Your logic is fallacious. It's not a matter of me not understanding it, it's a matter of me seeing it and knowing that it fits a basic logical flaw.

You are taking "If x then y" to mean "If not x then not y" which is just logically incorrect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_%28logic%29

Basic logic. It's called having an education in basic logic. Philosophy 10 probably covered it, though I knew all the damn course material beforehand.

Hmmm... Okay, I can sort of see that... But I still maintain that, whether my fear example is correct or not, the main point still stands. I think that the environment that 21st children are raised in is somehow desensitizing them to the subconscious belief that anything is truly important.