230: Get the Hell Out Of Dodge
- Thread starter Brendan Main
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i really liked the whole game, the intro was just part of it. i couldn't say if the beginning was any less fun/annoying/sense making than rest of it. as whole, i liked the game until disc 3 made errors at the famous f*cking fountain.
Or that time I watched paint dry and then cried a single tear.Dectilon said:
"Suddenly, there is a splash of crimson. The blue wall disappears, literally buried under a deluge of colour. Paint and primer coalesce, hues fading into a world of monochrome.
I see red."
I do enjoy the opening mostly. Yes it is a depressing take on an opressed city, but it does set up the whole theme of the game. That climb up the wire after the destruction of the slums is great in terms of story.
Oh, and screw the stairs! Pile in the front door, knock a few heads in and take the lift up. You are rewarded with a shop and the ability to watch an advert for the game's cars.
I remember the first time I ever played FFI. This was after having played FFVII through. I took my first steps and died to the first enemy in the game... Nasty game starting you without any equipment.
Oh, and screw the stairs! Pile in the front door, knock a few heads in and take the lift up. You are rewarded with a shop and the ability to watch an advert for the game's cars.
I remember the first time I ever played FFI. This was after having played FFVII through. I took my first steps and died to the first enemy in the game... Nasty game starting you without any equipment.
If you don't mind an older game, try Syndicate, Syndicate Wars or Shadowrun (the SNES version, of course). BloodNet and Beneath a steel sky also come close in terms of theme.RAKtheUndead said:
But I couldn't name one that was as memorable and not... well, old.
Not going to say that things were "better back then", but now that you asked, I actually have to realize that some seem to have changed.
Wow. That was an amazing article.
I was never really a fan of the Midgar portion either mostly because it did feel kind of depressing. Now that I think about it, it always did feel like I was trapped inside an extremely small piece of a much larger, unexplored, fascinating world....I think I want to go play this game again haha.
I was never really a fan of the Midgar portion either mostly because it did feel kind of depressing. Now that I think about it, it always did feel like I was trapped inside an extremely small piece of a much larger, unexplored, fascinating world....I think I want to go play this game again haha.
And here I thought he was going tor ant about RPGs around the time of FF7....and how things are worse with anti septic designs and less and less customization and fun in JRPGs and RPGs in general.
Sure FF8 let you tweak stats and skills but the magic system and lack of a solid equipment system killed it dead and since FFX most games have been much like it only without the ability to expand beyond your main class(or classes are so dulutied it dose not matter much since equipment sets are oh so antiseptic and bland) and the lack of equipment modification.
Even DQ8 is stuck in the mud I don;t even want to think what hell awaits us in the series and for everything FF12 dose right it dose as much wrong you can't stack accessories skill progression is a joke equipment is boring and limit breaks are the same for everyone but acouple changes to acouple attacks. Dragon age at least got it right as far as party management goes and you have all the "gambits" out of the door these are things FF12 should have done, as well as had a freaking dual wiled skill...I am still so pissed about that one.....and well the game is boring as hell....
Sure FF8 let you tweak stats and skills but the magic system and lack of a solid equipment system killed it dead and since FFX most games have been much like it only without the ability to expand beyond your main class(or classes are so dulutied it dose not matter much since equipment sets are oh so antiseptic and bland) and the lack of equipment modification.
Even DQ8 is stuck in the mud I don;t even want to think what hell awaits us in the series and for everything FF12 dose right it dose as much wrong you can't stack accessories skill progression is a joke equipment is boring and limit breaks are the same for everyone but acouple changes to acouple attacks. Dragon age at least got it right as far as party management goes and you have all the "gambits" out of the door these are things FF12 should have done, as well as had a freaking dual wiled skill...I am still so pissed about that one.....and well the game is boring as hell....
@ the author:
Look man, go outside and see some trees once in while, will you? And please, PLEASE don't play FFVII:Crisis Core, b/c you'll probably commit suicide or buy your thirtieth black turtleneck or something awful like that. FFVII:CC shows you MORE of the wonderful city of Midgar in all of its rusty, dirty, dark glory. You interact with the inhabitants and get more of a feel for its subculture, its nuances, its Midgar-ness...
What the hell was the point of this article, anyway? I didn't need the opening chapter of FF7 recounted through someone's emo-glasses for me, and I certainly didn't need this guy pooh-poohing what was a beautiful, satisfying gaming experience for me and a lot of other players. That first pull-out-and-fly-in shot of the game gave me goosebumps, and still does. Will anyone forget their first look at the church with the ICBM shoved into it, the haunting beauty of the train yard, the helos flying past the Mako Cannon, or that shot of the commuter train barrelling around the enormous column? The Midgar part of the game went a long way towards making me care about the main and side characters, and set the tone for what turned out to be a deep, engrossing RPG setting. I _cared_ what happened to Midgar and the rest of the FF7 world. When the party finally left Midgar to save the world, it felt like leaving home, and like that other guy said, you were bowled over by the fact that there was a world _beyond_ it.
In contrast, I didn't care whether all of Ferelden was put to the torch by the Not-Orks because, quite frankly, everyone in it was an irredeemably callow moron. The dwarves were petty berks. The elves are flaccid nonces. The humans in the mud towns were dull and boring and the towns themselves weren't that better. The denizens of Midgar were scrappers, living out their tough lives in cobbled together houses made out of campers and TV's (FYI, anyone who hasn't played it, FFVII:CC used those old maps as a blueprint, so you can walk around in those areas and see them at EYE LEVEL). They kept a can-do attitude despite their poverty. They had bridges made from GIANT ROBOT ARMS. Midgar had character, Midgar had class, and dammit, Midgar was cool. Despite that, when it came tumbling down (thanks Meteor) and we were left with the afters, we still felt closure, despite feeling a pang that the engrossing industrial place was gone.
So please, english major, appreciate the city and its chapter for what it is: damn good writing and solid, beautiful design.
Or don't; everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Even emo-english majors.
PS: please, stay out of New York, Chicago, and every other major city everywhere, especially Tokyo (my GOD does that place stretch on forever) Just stick to the green areas and live a long emo-happy life. Urban is obviously bad for you.
Now I'm gonna go watch Blade Runner....
Look man, go outside and see some trees once in while, will you? And please, PLEASE don't play FFVII:Crisis Core, b/c you'll probably commit suicide or buy your thirtieth black turtleneck or something awful like that. FFVII:CC shows you MORE of the wonderful city of Midgar in all of its rusty, dirty, dark glory. You interact with the inhabitants and get more of a feel for its subculture, its nuances, its Midgar-ness...
What the hell was the point of this article, anyway? I didn't need the opening chapter of FF7 recounted through someone's emo-glasses for me, and I certainly didn't need this guy pooh-poohing what was a beautiful, satisfying gaming experience for me and a lot of other players. That first pull-out-and-fly-in shot of the game gave me goosebumps, and still does. Will anyone forget their first look at the church with the ICBM shoved into it, the haunting beauty of the train yard, the helos flying past the Mako Cannon, or that shot of the commuter train barrelling around the enormous column? The Midgar part of the game went a long way towards making me care about the main and side characters, and set the tone for what turned out to be a deep, engrossing RPG setting. I _cared_ what happened to Midgar and the rest of the FF7 world. When the party finally left Midgar to save the world, it felt like leaving home, and like that other guy said, you were bowled over by the fact that there was a world _beyond_ it.
In contrast, I didn't care whether all of Ferelden was put to the torch by the Not-Orks because, quite frankly, everyone in it was an irredeemably callow moron. The dwarves were petty berks. The elves are flaccid nonces. The humans in the mud towns were dull and boring and the towns themselves weren't that better. The denizens of Midgar were scrappers, living out their tough lives in cobbled together houses made out of campers and TV's (FYI, anyone who hasn't played it, FFVII:CC used those old maps as a blueprint, so you can walk around in those areas and see them at EYE LEVEL). They kept a can-do attitude despite their poverty. They had bridges made from GIANT ROBOT ARMS. Midgar had character, Midgar had class, and dammit, Midgar was cool. Despite that, when it came tumbling down (thanks Meteor) and we were left with the afters, we still felt closure, despite feeling a pang that the engrossing industrial place was gone.
So please, english major, appreciate the city and its chapter for what it is: damn good writing and solid, beautiful design.
Or don't; everyone's entitled to their opinion.
Even emo-english majors.
PS: please, stay out of New York, Chicago, and every other major city everywhere, especially Tokyo (my GOD does that place stretch on forever) Just stick to the green areas and live a long emo-happy life. Urban is obviously bad for you.
Now I'm gonna go watch Blade Runner....
If you have to ask...its over your head...its about the depth of of the midgar section of FF7 and some nostalgia whoring and possible lament over they don;t make them like they use to.Zero=Interrupt said:
Oh and crisis core sucks BTW no wonder its stuck on the crappy PSP!
A nostalgia whore! That's a bit better than an emo-english major. Looks like I'm moving up in the world!ZippyDSMlee said:
Which is good. Papa needs that thirtieth black turtleneck like gangbusters.
I am THE person who disliked this game, so take anything I say about the game with a grain of salt. That being said Midgar's atmosphere wasn't the reason I disliked the game. In fact, it felt like they missed the spot on trying to create a dreary dystopian city. If they had hit the mark I think I would have enjoyed the game.
Well, and also if I cared any iota about the main character.
Anyway, it is interesting to read about. As a gamer that replays many games I am all too familiar with having to play through content that I do not enjoy to get to the stuff I love. Planescape: Torment comes to mind, it has a great story (rather unique) and great dialogue but the gameplay after all these years has not held up well at all. So I play through, but miserably.
So this article is something I think gamers can relate to. Our love/hate relationship with our iconic old games we choose to replay.
Well, and also if I cared any iota about the main character.
Anyway, it is interesting to read about. As a gamer that replays many games I am all too familiar with having to play through content that I do not enjoy to get to the stuff I love. Planescape: Torment comes to mind, it has a great story (rather unique) and great dialogue but the gameplay after all these years has not held up well at all. So I play through, but miserably.
So this article is something I think gamers can relate to. Our love/hate relationship with our iconic old games we choose to replay.
I know it's strange to call an article beautiful.. but that is the only word i can think to describe your work
i love this game so much, it never gets old. but midgar's supposed to be that depressing aint it so as you say once you're out you find a world worth saving.
Its a good well written read this is not major journalism, hell even major journalism these days is not so up tight...tho thats why we call it entertainment news these days...but still this is not that so its all good.Brendan Main said:
I am more a gameplay whore I can see the decline in gameplay more than I can see it in mode/story/setting ect. FF 1 was rich in fun equipment that made the game enjoyable, FF2-3 are a haze of my "emulated youth" FF4 was godly a much improved skill and class system with fun weapons and items, FF6 laged a bit in equipment but made up for it in accessories and skills used in battle even if the magic system made things feel generic. FF7 felt generic but was saved by equipment customization,accessories and limit breaks FF8 was a mess, FF9 was awesome despite a weakish plot and story the skill,class and equipment systems shined, FFX was both limited and generic the plot/story was wavering but no worse than FF8's romance world. And now with FF12 I have lost all faith in the FF franchise while the real time battles were great and gambits decent the game has no soul equipment is the blandest most antiseptic thing this side of a MMO the skill and class system is a joke and then some limit breaks are almost carbon copied and adjust a tad for each character. I kept dreaming of Balmier to use edgers tech/gadget stuff and while his airship stuff is cute it felt shallow and emtpy as dose the level design while it looks great and is a vast improvement over previous layouts there is something empty feeling about it. The story was bearable but but the game just dragged on and on it felt like a souless MMO.....
Uhg I am mega ranting...I apologize for the sloppy wall o text.. I have a love hate thing going with RPGs/Jrpgs and FF(and grammar/writing
) in particular ><
Beginning areas usually suck and drain lots of replay out of the game. I'm looking at you Taris.
Of what I played of FFVII, Midgar was the only part I liked. I hated the Saucer, gave up the first time in the desert, picked it up later, managed to slog through to the part where you can try to get Vincent, got frustrated with continually dying in a place that was a half hour away from a save point, threw the controller at my TV, and resolved never to play FFVII again.
I agree with the author on one point: Midgar certainly has an impressive, if oppressive atmosphere. IMHO, the rest felt like it had no atmosphere at all beyond "Generic Fantasy Village #36", and the gameplay was so boring I felt no incentive to continue, just in hopes of occasionally getting some half-decent dialogue with Tifa. If anything, what the game failed for me was in consistency of theme and storytelling--every region felt like an entirely different game to me.
People keep telling me how great the writing of the game is, and then I remember the line from the red kitty: "I think I grew up a little!" I think I threw up a little. And then I went and replayed Torment.
Disclaimer: All of the above is my personal opinion on the game, and I mean to cast no judgment on people who do like the game. It is obviously popular for a reason, it just missed the mark with me.
I agree with the author on one point: Midgar certainly has an impressive, if oppressive atmosphere. IMHO, the rest felt like it had no atmosphere at all beyond "Generic Fantasy Village #36", and the gameplay was so boring I felt no incentive to continue, just in hopes of occasionally getting some half-decent dialogue with Tifa. If anything, what the game failed for me was in consistency of theme and storytelling--every region felt like an entirely different game to me.
People keep telling me how great the writing of the game is, and then I remember the line from the red kitty: "I think I grew up a little!" I think I threw up a little. And then I went and replayed Torment.
Disclaimer: All of the above is my personal opinion on the game, and I mean to cast no judgment on people who do like the game. It is obviously popular for a reason, it just missed the mark with me.
I can't imagine having a more different reaction.
Midgar was great. The music was eerie, the enemies were mean, and everything was just so well put-together. And then I got out of it and... it was like being thrust into some long-winded cartoon that I didn't care for. Enemies became more or less random, things were often annoyingly colorful, the dialogue is boring and oh my GOD the Golden Saucer is the most annoying thing I have ever endured in a video game. A bunch of goofy-looking minigames with half the polish of a random browser Flash game, all for obscure and difficult-to-acquire special weapons and things which I knew I was supposed to want, but couldn't care about because the weapons I had killed things just fine.
Granted, I didn't play the game when I was young so I don't have happy happy memories to fall back on. (I have happy happy memories of Prince of Persia and Marathon and other games to fall back on)
Midgar was great. The music was eerie, the enemies were mean, and everything was just so well put-together. And then I got out of it and... it was like being thrust into some long-winded cartoon that I didn't care for. Enemies became more or less random, things were often annoyingly colorful, the dialogue is boring and oh my GOD the Golden Saucer is the most annoying thing I have ever endured in a video game. A bunch of goofy-looking minigames with half the polish of a random browser Flash game, all for obscure and difficult-to-acquire special weapons and things which I knew I was supposed to want, but couldn't care about because the weapons I had killed things just fine.
Granted, I didn't play the game when I was young so I don't have happy happy memories to fall back on. (I have happy happy memories of Prince of Persia and Marathon and other games to fall back on)
I'm gonna agree with these last two guys.
For me, Midgar was one of the game's high points. A huge city, probably one of the first jrpg societies to extend farther than a few screens. The music fit, and the atmosphere was solid, for all that the layout and social structure of the place confused me. I could even ignore how cartoonishly evil the Shinra corporation was, in favour of the brilliant steampunk settings which you don't really see anywhere else in the game; after the motorcycle bit (which appealed to me just for the sheer over-the-top measures that Nomura was going to to convince his audience that "okay, this Cloud fellow is a badass and you should think he is cool"), it simply became typical Final Fantasy. The music stayed pretty good throughout, but the locations became more generic and there was less to explore within. Where once a jrpg-ified incarnation of Babylon had filled the main villain slot, an uninspired new character with little motivation other than "heh heh heh I have gone insane, better kill everybody" steps in.
Midgar isn't by far the only enjoyable location in the game, but leaving it always marks a gradual decline in my overall appreciation. Personally, I'd like to see more jrpgs take place entirely within one city. Your average city is as large, if not larger, than your typical jrpg world map, and has just as much variety. As a bonus, you don't have to awkwardly skirt the issue of how everyone in the world's dozen towns can speak perfect english.
For me, Midgar was one of the game's high points. A huge city, probably one of the first jrpg societies to extend farther than a few screens. The music fit, and the atmosphere was solid, for all that the layout and social structure of the place confused me. I could even ignore how cartoonishly evil the Shinra corporation was, in favour of the brilliant steampunk settings which you don't really see anywhere else in the game; after the motorcycle bit (which appealed to me just for the sheer over-the-top measures that Nomura was going to to convince his audience that "okay, this Cloud fellow is a badass and you should think he is cool"), it simply became typical Final Fantasy. The music stayed pretty good throughout, but the locations became more generic and there was less to explore within. Where once a jrpg-ified incarnation of Babylon had filled the main villain slot, an uninspired new character with little motivation other than "heh heh heh I have gone insane, better kill everybody" steps in.
Midgar isn't by far the only enjoyable location in the game, but leaving it always marks a gradual decline in my overall appreciation. Personally, I'd like to see more jrpgs take place entirely within one city. Your average city is as large, if not larger, than your typical jrpg world map, and has just as much variety. As a bonus, you don't have to awkwardly skirt the issue of how everyone in the world's dozen towns can speak perfect english.
I'm not going to share my opinion on any part of FF7 because experience teaches me it'll only lead to a pointlessly endless discussion with a bunch of fanboys. In stead, I'm going to be an ass and point out a little error in the article.
The city is a pinnacle of man's triumph over nature, and nobody got around to inventing the escalator?
They do have escalators and elevators. You can choose to take the stairs because they're considered obsolete; it's the only way in that isn't guarded.
The city is a pinnacle of man's triumph over nature, and nobody got around to inventing the escalator?
They do have escalators and elevators. You can choose to take the stairs because they're considered obsolete; it's the only way in that isn't guarded.