246: Legend of the Drunken Mashter
- Thread starter Brendan Main
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Hm...I think I'd have to agree with the "mashing works better in 3D" sentiment. Thinking back on it the 3D fighting games I've played have mostly all lent themselves to spastic slashers. Yes, you can win much more easily in Tekken if you know the more-than-half-your-life juggle combos, sure, but if you can't land your launcher for those combos because you keep getting tiny jabs in the crotch they don't help you much. And Voldo does seem like he was made for mashers sometimes. Crazy person.
That said, there's usually a line in a game where, once crossed, mashing no longer bothers you. It just fails to remain a viable technique once you know how to deal "safe" damage to an opponent that doesn't know what he or she is doing, whether it's generous use of projectile attacks, auto-dodge/invincibility frame abuse, zoning from longer range than your opponent or using a character that pokes faster than the masher's can poke - whatever strategy works best, most games have one that turns mashing into a non-factor.
Then there's Karate Champ.
...
Wait.
That said, there's usually a line in a game where, once crossed, mashing no longer bothers you. It just fails to remain a viable technique once you know how to deal "safe" damage to an opponent that doesn't know what he or she is doing, whether it's generous use of projectile attacks, auto-dodge/invincibility frame abuse, zoning from longer range than your opponent or using a character that pokes faster than the masher's can poke - whatever strategy works best, most games have one that turns mashing into a non-factor.
Then there's Karate Champ.
Well, yeah. The best fiction is non-fiction!Metaphor said:
...
Wait.
Having played against a former "professional" Street Fighter 2 player, and myself being a button masher like yourself, I can with at least some confidence that it is impossible to beat a really good player with random button mashing. A pro Street Fighter player can not only execute his avatar's entire moveset in his sleep, but a pro player also knows which movement animations makes them temporarily invincible, and they also know how to handle button mashers by finding the specific gaps between attacks that make said button mashers vulnerable for a split second.
EDIT: Also, that clip with Jackie Chan was fucking awesome. I must watch that movie now.
EDIT: Also, that clip with Jackie Chan was fucking awesome. I must watch that movie now.
The original Drunken Master remains one of my all-time favorites - if you like that one, I'd suggest also checking out "Snake in the Eagle's Shadow," another film directed by Woo-Ping with a similar cast.matrix3509 said:
It's not every movie where you see someone get a front tooth literally kicked out of their face, and then just roll with it.
You are not a man, Jackie Chan. You are a piece of steel.
I don't button mash...ever, well unless it's down to those last few hits in a round or tie breaker, then I unintentionally start to god nuts on the controller which may cost me or save me. I find no enjoyment in button mashing at all and pretty much try my very hardest to avoid it at any cost and aside from the odd panic moment I keep my cool. Strategy and focus will always overcome any button masher, and properly executing moves is just far more enjoyable and rewarding.
I have never played a fighting game where button mashing would work against a competent player. Button mashing will only take you so far, and once you hit that threshold point, the game or player will begin to punish you severely for being careless. It just doesn't work, you can't beat a non-button mashing player unless they are simply being careless or ignorant.
Interesting article none the less.
I have never played a fighting game where button mashing would work against a competent player. Button mashing will only take you so far, and once you hit that threshold point, the game or player will begin to punish you severely for being careless. It just doesn't work, you can't beat a non-button mashing player unless they are simply being careless or ignorant.
Interesting article none the less.
I try to figure out insanely intricate combos that can kill or nearly kill an opponent without allowing them to take any kind of action. Unfortunately I've noticed that anyone that likes to use block button a lot tends to win. My problem is that I don't really know how to play I just memorize one long sequence and hope that I am able to execute it.
In Soul Calibur games, I actually hate button mashers more than people who know what they're doing (triple the annoyance if they're using Maxi/Nightmare). It's the fact that they can dish out moves (no matter how accidental) that a player who trained with a character won't even consider that makes them dangerous.
It's an unfortunate fact that excessive input into the controller beats the player who is actually trying to play the game for what it is. Yet the ironic way of beating a masher is just to study the movesets in a little detail.
In SC2, I'd spoil a masher's fight by picking Ivy or Nightmare and use distanced attacks with some simple combos, while my more mastered friend punished from the other end of the spectrum, taking Mitsirugi or Talim and executing long, premeditated combos. And I'd love playing against him, even if I got my ass handed to me 90% of the time, because it's a proper fight.
You won't enjoy a fight scene in a movie if the victor was just flailing their arms in the air (except for Team America).
In SC2, I'd spoil a masher's fight by picking Ivy or Nightmare and use distanced attacks with some simple combos, while my more mastered friend punished from the other end of the spectrum, taking Mitsirugi or Talim and executing long, premeditated combos. And I'd love playing against him, even if I got my ass handed to me 90% of the time, because it's a proper fight.
You won't enjoy a fight scene in a movie if the victor was just flailing their arms in the air (except for Team America).
This +1. As my level of dedication to fighting games often varies from my friends, I run into a lot mashers and 'static repeaters.' Beating them is not hard, it just requires a totally different strategy from normal players. It's particularly easy if you're willing to switch characters.matrix3509 said:
Most fighting games have at least one character that HORRIBLY punishes button mashers -- for Tekken, it's one of my favorites, Asuka. They generally have one or more moves where if an opponent sticks and arm or leg out, that arm or leg gets broke.
If you're new to a game and try to not button mash nor useing teh same attack all teh time, you'll often end up thinking more than you're fighting.
If you're fighting style (in games) more or less assume your opponent will use "normal" attacks and movement, and you're unwilling or unable to change your own strategy, you will prolly losoe, if your opponent acts weird, like a button masher. It's liek that with other genres as well, thats why a lot of people loose to rushers in RTS, cause they refuse to adapt to their opponents play-style in order to beat him.
If theres characters with ranged atatcks, like devil Jin in tekken or almost anyone in SSB etc. then thats a pretty effective way to fuck up button mashers.
If you're fighting style (in games) more or less assume your opponent will use "normal" attacks and movement, and you're unwilling or unable to change your own strategy, you will prolly losoe, if your opponent acts weird, like a button masher. It's liek that with other genres as well, thats why a lot of people loose to rushers in RTS, cause they refuse to adapt to their opponents play-style in order to beat him.
If theres characters with ranged atatcks, like devil Jin in tekken or almost anyone in SSB etc. then thats a pretty effective way to fuck up button mashers.
I'm a big supporter of easy specials. Obvious Smash Bros style ones are great, I like how in Blazblue, some of the specials are mapped to the second control stick, it makes it so a newbie can pick it up and get some moves off.
I get where the Street Fighter style commands need to come in, but it's an antique idea. Why have me do two quarter circles and press three buttons at once, when you could have mapped that to one button, or maybe simply all three buttons pressed at once. I still think Dragon Punch is the worst possible idea for a command. Forward, then Down to forward-down, yeah that's not needlessly complicated, which is worse since these characters usually have a quarter circle, so if you do the move slightly wrong, you'll Hadoken instead of Shoryuken. There's no reason to make it that way. And I still don't get why any move makes you do full circles or press up, because guess what happens? You jump.
It doesn't improve the competitive aspect, if I'm playing Blazblue and I'm using actual command, and my opponent is using shortcuts, the battles will end up the same. It's just a way of locking away the best moves from new players. >_< Seems elitist to me.
I get where the Street Fighter style commands need to come in, but it's an antique idea. Why have me do two quarter circles and press three buttons at once, when you could have mapped that to one button, or maybe simply all three buttons pressed at once. I still think Dragon Punch is the worst possible idea for a command. Forward, then Down to forward-down, yeah that's not needlessly complicated, which is worse since these characters usually have a quarter circle, so if you do the move slightly wrong, you'll Hadoken instead of Shoryuken. There's no reason to make it that way. And I still don't get why any move makes you do full circles or press up, because guess what happens? You jump.
It doesn't improve the competitive aspect, if I'm playing Blazblue and I'm using actual command, and my opponent is using shortcuts, the battles will end up the same. It's just a way of locking away the best moves from new players. >_< Seems elitist to me.
I agree w/ the comment that it's MUCH easier to button-mash in 3D games (Tekken anyone?) But Brendan, I remember that you were not always a button-masher: you figured out and memorized all the move codes and would even yell out the combo codes as you did them playing MK3! "Back back forward A! DOWN UP DOWN B! A B B A X Y FATALITY!!" It made losing against you extra humiliating.
This article also give me a serious flashback: do you remember that little kid who used to kick all our asses playing Killer Instinct at Captain Billy's? UGH that kid was like a 5 year old button-mashing GENIUS.
Next time you guys get people together to mash some buttons, please give me a call.
This article also give me a serious flashback: do you remember that little kid who used to kick all our asses playing Killer Instinct at Captain Billy's? UGH that kid was like a 5 year old button-mashing GENIUS.
Next time you guys get people together to mash some buttons, please give me a call.
SLD said:
Hah! I'm found out! I remember those old days, when we and the cap'n made it hap'n.
But seriously, I can still clearly recall the last finishing move I ever executed at an arcade, years and years ago, before I dedicated myself to my particular brand of Mash Fu...
I was in an arcade at Canada's Wonderland, just sort of taking it in. One match in Mortal Kombat 3 caught my eye. It was this guy and this girl, pretty into it, trash talking each other... but then right at the end, the guy stood back and did nothing.
I was flabbergasted. Clearly the spooky voice said to FINISH HIIIIIM, but he wasn't finishing anything. Clearly I would have to FINISH IT for him.
I step forward to the abandoned machine and rattle off a quick fatality, watching the opponent explode in a fountain of gore with this weird sense of pride. But I turn back and notice the two players are watching me with this look of utter disgust.
And the guy, honest to god, goes: "Hey BUDDY you just KILLED MY GIRLFRIEND."
So... I guess I should have gone with a "Friendship" instead?
This is why you can't take me anywhere nice. I always end up killing someone's girlfriend.
I've always imagined that button mashers fight in real life how they play in a fighting game. That is, flail around wildly like they've got a rabid dog biting their ass, waving all their limbs and hoping to God for a hadouken.Bayushi_Kouya said:
