246: Legend of the Drunken Mashter
- Thread starter Brendan Main
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'Legend of a Drunken Master' was a big favourite of mine (Who can not love the bench fighting scene??), but I confess never to have seen both those you mentioned. I'll have to take a watch! I love kung-fu movies!Brendan Main said:
More on topic: Another great article from my fellow Simcoe County resident!
I could never get into fighting games. I'm a masher who wants to learn strategy, but can't be bothered to memorize the move list. Screw that, I've got guys to beat up! But I digress. A great read!
Always entertaining.
If both players are completely new to the game (or even the entire genre), then the player who mashes buttons will often win against the player who tries to play the game 'correctly' (placed in parentheses because it's a stupid word to use in this context), because neither player is good enough to successfully pull off moves and strategies. It's not as effective as simply being good at the game, but when both players are very bad it can be significantly more effective than trying to 'do it right' and failing.
As mentioned in the article, the success of button mashing quickly starts to drop once your opponents get more skilled. There's only one skill level to button mashing, because you can't get better at 'randomly pressing buttons'. However, you can get better at 'proper' moves, combos and strategies. Sure, a button masher might surprise a good player once in a while, but it's far, far more likely that he'll make a lot of useless moves that will leave him entirely open to punishment from the more experienced player.
As mentioned in the article, the success of button mashing quickly starts to drop once your opponents get more skilled. There's only one skill level to button mashing, because you can't get better at 'randomly pressing buttons'. However, you can get better at 'proper' moves, combos and strategies. Sure, a button masher might surprise a good player once in a while, but it's far, far more likely that he'll make a lot of useless moves that will leave him entirely open to punishment from the more experienced player.
Wait... You were spamming Blanka's electricity and your opponents didn't just kick you down?
I used to get beaten by button-mashers in Soul Calibur until I mastered impact guard. Some characters have some really gay moves that go low-high-low etc quickly, and if the first hit connects the rest will too. It's like the perfect premise for mashing.
I used to get beaten by button-mashers in Soul Calibur until I mastered impact guard. Some characters have some really gay moves that go low-high-low etc quickly, and if the first hit connects the rest will too. It's like the perfect premise for mashing.
Let's not forget why we play games. Fun. Overly technical games, be they realistic racing sims or overly-nuanced fighting games, are simply a barrier to more people enjoying the game. Button mashing is fun. Taking a corner at 100 mph is fun.
Do we really need to be reminded what fun is?
Do we really need to be reminded what fun is?
I've never been a big fan of fighting games. I don't enjoy button mashing much, so fighting games and others that use button mashing as any sort of legitimate tactic are lost on me. However, I don't mind hack-and-slash games so much, though sometimes they do tend to get a bit repetitive.
What I like to see in games with button mashing is the sort of thing used in games like Kingdom Hearts. Button mashing gets you somewhere, up to a point, but after a while you need to look at other tactics as well. You try button mashing in KH and you'll do okay against all the Shadows and Soldiers and Dusks, but the bigger opponents are going to swamp you. So what does the game do? QTEs in the form of Limits, which actually work really well in the combat mechanic, and specific strategies that you can use against different enemies. In the Journal tips are given to beat opponents without having to button mash.
Kingdom Hearts is just one example. It's not a fighting game, true, but a JRPG. But the point still stands. Button mashing is no indicator of skill or talent. Anyone can hold a controller in one hand and press buttons willy-nilly with the other. What games need to do is go the KH route and use different tactics to defeat different enemies, so that whenever you're in a fight you are forced to analyse the situation quickly and come up with a way of beating your enemy. After all, it surely can't be that much fun to beat the pulp out of your controller, right?
What I like to see in games with button mashing is the sort of thing used in games like Kingdom Hearts. Button mashing gets you somewhere, up to a point, but after a while you need to look at other tactics as well. You try button mashing in KH and you'll do okay against all the Shadows and Soldiers and Dusks, but the bigger opponents are going to swamp you. So what does the game do? QTEs in the form of Limits, which actually work really well in the combat mechanic, and specific strategies that you can use against different enemies. In the Journal tips are given to beat opponents without having to button mash.
Kingdom Hearts is just one example. It's not a fighting game, true, but a JRPG. But the point still stands. Button mashing is no indicator of skill or talent. Anyone can hold a controller in one hand and press buttons willy-nilly with the other. What games need to do is go the KH route and use different tactics to defeat different enemies, so that whenever you're in a fight you are forced to analyse the situation quickly and come up with a way of beating your enemy. After all, it surely can't be that much fun to beat the pulp out of your controller, right?
Pick up Ivy and tell me that button mashing is the way to go. I've rarely seen a more technical fighter.Dectilon said:
ok this was probably the most entertaining read in a very long time. XD Moral of the story: the farther back u go in fighting games the ezier it is for a button masher to win?
Would it have helped if he hyphenated mash-ter? I'll be the one to explain the joke: this article is about fighting game button mashers. So, to make a pun out 'Way of the Master' the writer changed it to Mashter.
Rorschach: "Obvious, really."
Rorschach: "Obvious, really."
And this is why I suck at Tatsunoko vs. Capcom and Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix, which are the only two fighters I own right now outside of Super Smash Bros., which is practically a different genre in itself. I guess I still need more practice.
On a side note, this seems like it addresses Yahtzee's biggest problem with fighters. Has he read this yet?
On a side note, this seems like it addresses Yahtzee's biggest problem with fighters. Has he read this yet?
In fighting games it can get you pretty far. Is there another way to playing SSB? In other games, like shooters, racers, flight sims; it will get you killed, wrecked, and shot down respectively.
i started off as a very capable button masher when i was like 8 or 9. through that i actually learned how to play. then i learned how to win. now i rule with an iron fist at fighting games until my cousin occasionally defeats me.
those are good fights though.
those are good fights though.
Errr... that's exactly what you do in games like Street Fighter with the distinction that usually all of your opponents are actually people. It's not enough that you know how to pull off, say, a spinning piledriver; you also have to get close enough to actually make it hit.Trivun said:
I will point out that there is no such thing as "totally random" with these kinds of games. Even if not conscious, even button mashers tend to be fairly predictable once you know them since they tend to generally perform the same, or very similar motions.
I'll also be honest in saying that it's a matter of timing as much as what moves you do, and if your looking at the screen, even if hitting attack buttons randomly, your going to try and time things to some extent... and honestly that can carry games very easily. I for example managed to win a good portion of my Soul Calibur IV matches simply using 8 way run and the two basic attack buttons without throwing much else in, because where I was standing and when I attacked meant as much, if not more, than what kind of move I was actually trying to pull off.
Such are my thoughts. I'd guess you simply have pretty good timing, people slowly got better facing you as they began to get a feel for how you did things. Karate Champ is also not a random game, I put stupid amounts of time into it. It's one very much based on timing though, you can pretty much win the game (well the fighting part, not the minigames) with nothing but the basic "Front Kick" and the occasional block if you get a feel for it. Or that's how I rememer it from when I was much younger.
>>>----Therumancer--->
I'll also be honest in saying that it's a matter of timing as much as what moves you do, and if your looking at the screen, even if hitting attack buttons randomly, your going to try and time things to some extent... and honestly that can carry games very easily. I for example managed to win a good portion of my Soul Calibur IV matches simply using 8 way run and the two basic attack buttons without throwing much else in, because where I was standing and when I attacked meant as much, if not more, than what kind of move I was actually trying to pull off.
Such are my thoughts. I'd guess you simply have pretty good timing, people slowly got better facing you as they began to get a feel for how you did things. Karate Champ is also not a random game, I put stupid amounts of time into it. It's one very much based on timing though, you can pretty much win the game (well the fighting part, not the minigames) with nothing but the basic "Front Kick" and the occasional block if you get a feel for it. Or that's how I rememer it from when I was much younger.
>>>----Therumancer--->