253: Pardon My French

[RaisonD'etre]

I also learned English through playing video games (Pokemon Yellow on Game Boy Colour, respectively).

I think localization has its pros and cons. Some games, such as The Sims, work well when translated. It also enables younger kids to play games like Hello Kitty and the like.
What I suggest is that the audio should be original though. Let there be subtitles when needed, it'll improve the kids reading abilities as well as their foreign language comprehension. Most dubbed games/shows/movies have horrid voice acting..

 

[boholikeu]

I teach English as a second language for a living, and I can't stress the importance of video games (and games in general) as a teaching tool. Not only are games much more fun than rote exercises, they also often provide a level of immersion that is quite similar to studying abroad. After all, using English isn't just about knowing vocab or grammar rules; it's about being able to function in an entirely English environment (even a virtual one).

 

[Therumancer]

I'm a fan of subtitles myself, though I have seen some good dub jobs (speaking in general, from a number of sources and languages).

That said I have mixed opinions about the whole "French Localization" thing.

Simply put I'm one of those people who believes that we should be pushing for a universal global language. I don't mind people being multi-lingual, but I think everyone on the planet should have to learn english from an early age. Technically "english" could in theory have been replaced by any language out there had it come to similar prominance, but English is already the language used for business, and things like Air Traffic control, so I figure
it's pretty much there.

I think this would resolve a lot of problems by removing the need for things like localization, but ALSO facilitate global communication, news, and the general spread of ideas.

I fully understand the attachment that people have to their cultural languages, and the desire to see their language survive as a primary means of communication (or perhaps become THE primary means of communication), however for the sake of humanity in general I think something has to give and the benefits of a single "human tongue" outweigh any cost to
pride or history.

By the same token even if English is mandatory, I see no real reason why people shouldn't learn a second or even a third language while in school, especially when young (and it's easier to learn). As a member of the last "mono lingual" generation of the US given changes to our school system, I sort of regret never having learned a second language.

That said, I wouldn't be TOO concerned about the poor French localization. The trend right now is fairly new. Looking back at Anime... which I am less into than I used to be, but started following to some extent back in the late 1980s, I'll point out how bad the dubbed translations were. We're talking utterly painful to listen to at times, as well as being cut for content (with entire scenes being changed), this turned me into one of those anime subtitle snobs. HOWEVER while it took over a decade, the dubs and voice acting for anime and video games got a *LOT* better. I still prefer subtitles simply due to having gotten used to them with anime, but I can't really "knock" dubs like I used to. What's more looking at localized games like "Disgaea" and the like I've gotten used to certain actors and their work. Ironically I'm one of those who preferred the voice actress for "Etna" in the original Disgaea compared to the ones they used for later chapters of the series.

Ah well, enough rambling.

 

[Tele-screen]

I really related to the part where the author talked about how it's more enjoyable (if you can do it efficiently) to experience something in your second language. When he said it tickled the parts of his brain in a "stimulating" way I knew exactly what he meant. I am a native speaker of American English, but have learned Spanish to a bilingual level. Reading something as simple as the news in Spanish is somehow more pleasurable simply because it is using parts of my brain that are not my everyday language centers. I liken it to the experience of stretching a limb for the first time after having it immobilized in a cast. Your brain forgot what that felt like so it feels amazing.

 

[Random Argument Man]

I have the same story. However, I'm from New-Brunswick. It was easy for me to learn english. I had video games!

By the way, I have the french version of Legend of Zelda too. It makes me laugh every time.

 

[AnnaIME]

Some games, such as The Sims, work well when translated.

No. No, they do not. I play The Sims (and all other games) in English, but my kids play in Swedish. So much of the humour is lost in translation.

 

[Darkstar370]

Some games, such as The Sims, work well when translated.

No. No, they do not. I play The Sims (and all other games) in English, but my kids play in Swedish. So much of the humour is lost in translation.

In the end, It all matters on the quality of the translation.

http://www.sonofasubmariner.com

 

[Voodoomancer]

Hehe.

Fun fact: My English wouldn't be nearly as good as it is today if I hadn't been playing video games since I was like 7.

(that and Chrome's spell check )

 

[ilion]

My first English words, ... Start, new game, options. I also had a broken grundig tv, that displayed only the top subs. best course in english ever. In portugal no one dubs anything. Only major movies and books offcourse.

 

[Kaorael]

I've had the same experience, but substituting your French with Spanish. I'm from Spain and I mostly started learning English through videogames. I remember trying to decipher those mission briefs in X-Wing when I was little, and a few years later playing through Final Fantasy IV while translating with the help of a dictionary those bits I couldn't understand. Nowadays, I just can't stand material that has been translated to Spanish, it just feels wrong. I've seen a fair share of bad translations, like the "Hollow One" monster in Diablo II becoming the "Hueco Uno" in Spanish (which would translate back to "Hole (Number) One"), but even a good translation seems off. And it's quite bad too when I get a translation that is in fact in American Spanish, which is understandable but sounds completely alien in choice of words and accent.

In the end I buy my games from Steam or order them online from Amazon or other online shops so I'm sure I get the English version, and I always hate it when Spanish game reviewers criticize games for not being translated, when for me it means I'll enjoy the game much more and I can get it directly at the local shop instead of buying online.

This frantic translation of every material that is published in Spain (and other countries like France) is in the end bad for the education of people in these countries, and for their economy too. Most Spanish persons don't know a word of English, because they've never had the need to learn it since everything has been spoon-fed to them in Spanish, and thus will never think bigger than the country for anything they do. Heck, even some of our recent Presidents/Prime Ministers didn't know how to speak English, and had need of interpreters in international meetings. Of course, this means it's impossible for them to keep a conversation with many other leaders, and makes their reactions slower than they should be.

As for me, I'm practically trilingual in Spanish, English and French, and I'm trying to learn Japanese. And I'll never regret having learned any of those languages.

 

[Kojiro ftt]

I've had similar experiences with Japanese games and dubbed movies. I played the original Tenchu in Japanese. At the time I knew nothing, so it all seemed very serious and kick ass. When Tenchu 2 came to the US and I played it in English, it was terrible and corny.

Movie and anime dubs are always worse, and it's painfully obvious. With a foreign language, there is wiggle room. The actors can be mediocre and you might not notice, or at least you won't notice how terribly corny the lines are.

 

[Wildrow12]

I definitely hear you on the whole "France-French" voice-over issue. Since my mother tongue is Spanish, I sometimes try to play my games with Spanish voice-overs.

Let me tell you something: NOTHING makes me laugh harder than hearing Marcus Fenix speak like he spent a year in Madrid. Why? Spaniards inflect differently when they speak their tongue (to many other Spanish-speakers, it sounds like they have a lisp). It just makes the proceedings seem more ludicrous to me.

Even in RE4 I could not stop laughing at the Spanish villagers. I don't know why, but the accent makes me laugh.

Furthermore, in translations I find that Spanish makes the dialogue less flowery and more direct.

"Please rescue our kingdom from the foul grip of Ganon!" could become "Kill Ganon."

Best example of all this: Play Metro 2033 with Spanish voiceovers, ignore the Russian names, and suddenly the game becomes an accurate simulation of Madrid in the Winter. =)

 

[The Random One]

As a Brazilian, I can say that there are so few games in Portuguese (other than a multitude of football games, which I dislike) that translated games for me feel more of a novelty. I remember ages ago going to a new LAN house to play CounterStrike, choosing my regular handle Nobody (Nobody is joining the counter-terrorist team! Nobody has set the bomb!) and discovering the game was modded into Portuguese. Well, the joke probably worked even better then.

 

[Darth Brownie]

J'ai vécu exactement la même chose

I went through the exact same thing

 

[Firethem]

Wow, couldn't have summed it up better myself! As a true Québécois at hearth, I still think that everything should be watched, listened or played in it's original language. The reason for that is that the actors and characters are actually acting while they play their parts, instead of just reading in front of a screen.

I've seen some pretty scandalous things written here after your post and I think you should at least clarify things a bit.
The fact that the game's translations suck is because they were made by poor translators, not because they were translated in french. Good translators with a real budget and good actors would definitely be able to transfer the energies and emotions proclaimed in the game/movie.

French is a beautiful language and as complicated as it might be, I will be damned if my children speak any other before their own 4th grade.

And for you leifa in the comments section, who tought french wasn't cool, you are old, obtuse and terribly, terribly wrong.

Silence, chien! Ta seule raison d'être est de mourir par ma main! (free translation from Irenicus, BG2, SoA) is in fact really, really cool.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

C'est magnifique!

...which is all the French I know. Seriously, my brain is simply not wired for learning other languages; I've tried so hard- Spanish, German, Japanese- and failed so miserably. So I have respect for those who are multilingual.

 

[flatten_the_skyline]

Change the language to German and you get the same thing. Of course, localisation didn't stay at the quality of Wolfenstein's DIE ALLIED SCHWEINSHUND! and MEIN LEBEN! (it's Schweinehund, and nobody would say "my life" when he's dying, now would he?), and some voice actors don't even sound like they were too drunk for the shopping channels. But still, it's just not the same. German sounds awkward, even to me. Even in conversations, I rather use English expressions sometimes... like "anyways", "benefit of the doubt", stuff like that. Germans have this sad tradition of translating everything, and if they don't, they at least pronounce it wrong. German advertisements speak of a brand named "Coll- Gah- Teh" for example, though it's still spelled colgate. It struck me worst with South Park. I really cannot watch the German episodes, everything is wrong. The Voices are completely bad, and the translation is more like "let's make something up that's loosely based on what they do". Prime Example is the word douche(bag). We don't have this device for cleaning the vaginal area over here, or at least it's not as popular in Germany (maybe because it's bullshit, medicinically speaking). So, we don't have the swearword douche for douchebags. What they made of it is "Kotzkrücke", which would mean "vomitcrutch". I'm serious, and I'm not making this up. This word doesn't even exist in German, nor does it make ANY sense at all. They carefuly break all the puns in movies and games! I sometimes refuse to watch movies in German, and I always try to get english versions of games... (PS: they managed to remove the whole nazi-theme from return to castle W. and made it some religious cult because people are too sensitive to have fun with nazis, they made the bad guy from die hard 1 an Irish because they were too sensitive about German Terrorism at that time, they even turned the soldiers in C&C Red Alert into cyborgs and changed their blood into oil)

In France, however, if you want a movie with subtitles, you'd best be prepared to take a trip to Paris

I've been to France (Marseille), and at least they didn't translate the MUSIC in the South Park Movie... Germans even translate Songs in Tim Burton's Musicals (Except Sweeney Todd, THANK DOG!).

 

[CelebrenIthil]

Anyone here saw the Québec-French translation of Super Mario Galaxy!?!?!?
IT'S HORRENDOUS.
I don't know what went into these people's heads!!!
I had to fight down lashing projectile vomit when I saw my roomate play and read the dialogues.
HOLY MOTHER OF FAILING AT REGIONAL SLANG FOREVER.

Gamers from Québec complain about France-French version exactly because they DO NOT WANT regionalisms into their games- AT ALL. They do not, I reapeat, they do NOT want to have them changed for regionalisms from here, ESPECIALLY when the translators clearly had to INVENT SOME because the FAIL AT NOT MAKING PEOPLE FEEL SHAMEFUL OF SPEAKING WITH ANY SORT OF ACCENT WHATSOEVER- FOREVER.
*gasp*
Sorry.

It was that bad.

About the subject of translation tastes in general:
Younger, I did tend to prefer what I'm accustomed to: if I first encountered something in a language-translation or not- that's what I'd be accustomed to and languages changes would feel weird despite the quality of each.
I think everyone are like this, or at least when they are younger.
It's normal.

But as time passed I found out that in general I sure prefer everything in their original languages, myself. French in French, English in English, Anime in Japanese with Subtitles.
(although not games in japanese since I wouldn't get a thing, lol (not for not trying to pass ...FF4? in full japanese- got stuck forever XD I could handle Bomberman, tough, once you learned the sequence of menu choices to click on to get on playing. )

Oh well, about the other and many of the fellow commenters- Hahah, je suis de Dolbeau-Mistassini moi!
(je commence à croire ceux qui me disent qu'ya proportionellement une forte concentration de gamers dans notre région comparé au reste de la Province en général!...)



I learned my English mostly through videogames until I hit the English classes in 4th grade too!
Almost as far as I can remember we had videogames in the house. I had an older brother that was an avid gamer and my dad liked all technology stuff so we had consoles and soon a computer in the house. Hahah, I remember the old floppy diskettes and playing games like Lemmings and Oil's Well on DOS. XD
We had a SEGA Genesis I still have and a huge collection of games~<3

I got through Baldur's Gate 1 by age 6 but it was the French version, though. "Les yeux Boo! Il faut viser les yeux! Yeeuuuuaaarrrgghhh!"
LOL
The voice actors were mostly really bad- especially the intonations that were all screwy- but I loved that game so much I find it endearing. I can quote a greta variety of phrases from the game and I found out a friend I made a few years ago from Petit-Saguenay had played it too and we'd call out quotes to each other for laughs. :3

("Mon auberge est aussi propre...qu'un derrière d'elfe!"
"Alors j'lui ai frappé la tête...jusqu'à ce qu'il crève!"
"J'ai besoin d'une bonne vieille bière...de chez nous...*beurp*"
"Gorion...serait fier... de vous!"
"Si un arbre tombe dans la forêt...je tuerai le bâtard qui a fait ça!"
"Montaron...vous êtes si EX-SAS-PÉ-RANT!..cela nuit à mon équilibre."
((les "..." c'est parce qu'ils faisaient des drôles de pauses en parlant))

J'adorais la voix de Khalid par contre. Il était comme, trop mignon! Je l'aurais serré dans mes bras et je l'aurais jamais laissé partir, pauvre petit. D:
(...ils...ILS L'ONT TUÉÉÉÉÉ!!! ;_; )

Oh well, sorry about that, back to English.

At first we didn't understand much either. I remember playing Streets of Rage with my brother and getting right to the end Boss fight, only to have him give us a choice between two answers.
Since we had no idea of what he was saying, we inadvertently accepted his offer to have us "fight between eachother and have the winner join him".
Oops.
And then after one of us beat down the other (probably my bro beating me since I was the suckier little sister that's 3 years younger and usually prefers to watch him play because she's not as good)... well he'd make you fall down a trapdoor in the floor and you'd have to go through all the last stage but this time all alone!
FFFFF-

XD

Anyways, the funny thing is when I hit my English classes I indeed couldn't speak for crap but I had a very wide vocabulary, especially in things related to sword and sorcery, lol!
People around me were still struggling to get basic vocabulary while I could have named all the parts of an armor individually. XD
(I remember losing a point in a test asking for furniture name because I answered chest of drawers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chest_of_drawers] and my teacher didn't know that name. But being an avid fan of RPGs, I had caught on on a wide list of containers! (that you then loot XD))

Heheheh.

Very interesting article indeed.

And I think I may have the answer to the dilemma.

Not that it came from myself, but from my son.

His theory, and what I?ve come to realize, is that French is just not ?cool?.
What I mean by that is that it is impossible to make any character, or situation, feel cool in French. The language simply does not lend itself to it.

French is a great language for ?emotions?, which is why it is so wonderful in the hands of Victor Hugo and his ?Les Misérables?.
No matter how many tried translating the depth of the human condition of the wretched in English ? and Charles Dickens did a pretty wonderful job of it ?, the feeling, when you read both works in their original tongue, is just not the same. One makes you sad, and the other grips you inside and ?almost? makes you cry.

The English language, however, totally owns the ?cool? factor.
?Silent, dog! Your only purpose is to die by my hand!? ? Irenicus, BG2, SoA
I mean, no matter how you try to turn that phrase in French, you?ll just end up either crying or laughing your head off. It can?t be done. Period.

It is something I have realized too.
English is the language of "cool". Proof is, there is no equivalent for the expression "cool" in French that isn't a lame out-of-trend word everyone looks down in disgust right now.
Also, due to it's nature, English can get away with the corniest things without sounding too retarded.
Among other things, stuff like "Fiery Claymore of the Twilight Doom" and the other kind of crazy names you find in video games.
Also, in the name of products. English is really strong in making rhymes and using homophones and alliterations.
These, in French, sound simply childish and stupid. Stuff with tacky names like, IDK, "Swivel Sweeper" simply can't be translated into "Vadrouille Virevoltante"..ungh... just look at the ones understanding French flinching at this and you'll get your answer.

On another hand, English at some points starts lacking in the poetically flowery-ish department (albeit you can get a good run by trying to sound more British XD).

I myself remarked that when a French speaker wants to sound like they are.. how to say it... "trendy", "up-to-date", "business-like", "pop-culture-ish".. then they'll mix English in their speech. Especially for the "business-like" part.
On the other hand, an English speaker that wants to sound more "romantic", "poetic", "cultured", "artsy", "fancy".

English has a pervasive business-savvy, moneymaking, I'm-following-with-the-times and international-ism feel, while French has this poetic, fancy, haughty-ish cultural-ism feel.

Whew, I had a hard time putting this into words...

Which is why, IMHO, it is imperative for French Canadian speaking parents to learn, if need be, and teach their children the English language from birth. To not do so is to deprive their offspring of such richness that it should be made mandatory by law.

Well, indeed but...
I'd like you to take a second to consider the opposite, tough.
Canada IS a bilingual country... It should be imperative for English Canadians to learn the French language from birth too. They deprive themselves from a great richness -that don't even begin to imagine, either.

...so, yeah.

I'd also like to point that in all proportions, there is waaaaaaay more French Canadians learning English than English learning French.
But yeah, it's all the matter of majority vs minority and the conqueror vs the conquered...
English is currently the strongest language on the planet and the one chosen for international exchange so all the minorities are pushed towards learning it for want or not, whereas native English speakers certainly do not have such compunction to learn other languages.
(the proof is right there on this forum where every native French speaker here are discussing in English whereas the contrary wouldn't be possible (same thing for people of other native languages here btw))

I've been taking the "Advanced English" classes, took a year of "Immersive English" in 6th grade. Spent half of the school year learning English without a single word of French after the 2nd class and the other half cramming all the other academic matters. It was very hard! XD
And at the end we had an exchange with students from Whitby in Ontario.
Of course, in the end, all of us had worked our asses off to be bilingual but our twins could barely say three words of French. Actually my twin hasn't been able to say a word in French at all if I remember well. (At least my brother's had been able to say "oui", "non" and "bouleau"! XD)

It's kinda disheartening, and it's like this most of the time.
They have no interest in learning French-what's the use after all, eh?

Alright, can't force people to learn a language when you don't want to. But the thing- la chose qui me fend la face en deux- if you'll excuse my French, the thing that baffles and irks me is when people that didn't reciprocate the effort- and the respect- in learning the language of the other starts badmouthing... :/

In Canada at large, English is the majority and French is the minority. But in Québec itself, French IS the majority and English the minority. It's not something anglophones are accustomed to, so they are angry, but guess what, but it's like a vicious circle- pretty much all the things you can grumble about about how English is handled in Québec can be said about French in Canada and it makes people angry too...

In the end, everyone likes their languages and their cultures and do not want that of other to be forced upon them, but wold like others to learn about theirs...

In any case, it's certain everyone could benefit from some more cultural openness right now!

/rant, sorry!

 

[rapchee]

just joined to say how much i can relate to the author, altough i'm hungarian and i learned english from cartoons (cartoon network [dexter's lab mainly XD] - now they are dubbed), i too get the uncanny feeling for translated, dubbed things, so i get try to get the original dub with subtitles, if possible. sometimes i think it's actually a bit snobbish of me.
oh and also, reading through comments i noticed that many of you (from many countries) stated that 'other countries' have more subbed movies, but it seems to me that this is not true - i heard of crappy romanian and actually heard polish over-dubbings (one guy says everything and the original dub can even be heard) - so when people rather watch this then subs, i wonder where are the places that have subtitles in movie theathers

 

[blue spartan 11]

The worst of translation is that they also change THE VOICES! All the accents, the emotions, well what makes us like or hate a character, is destroyed by lousy voice actors and stupid laws that made that happens. The only way to get a game in english is to go non-québec related store, like Gamestop or Indepedent stores that gives no shit about laws. Otherwise, you are stuck playing games in french, and NEVER do they spend as much time and money on voices and dialogue then the develloper's did.
/rant

Great arcticle, mon ami. I can relate to you as I started playing with my N64 and NO FRENCH GAME!