I liked the article. seems like a few others are having issues with it, but maybe it's just hitting too close to home for them - or they didn't read it entirely. good read.
259: Vaginophobia
- Thread starter Michael Thomsen
- Start date
Is anyone else on the forums as sick of being told that you are a vaginaphobic, mentally imature overly macho man as I am?
Mr Pitts if you are reading this please stop putting this type of thing into the Weekly Magazine, even if it is just for filler, because now logging onto the escapist to read the magazine feels like listening too a recording of a Fraudian analysis seminar being given by a scalding mother (deliberate irony) who is speaking directly to you and only to you.
Quote as many statistics as you want but remember that statistics mean nothing to individual. The only people who give a flying toss about statistics are douches in suits and people who make funny t-shirts... and since your tshirts don't do math jokes, you may want too quit with the numbers relative to other numbers before you start too feel like a british newspaper.
Mr Pitts if you are reading this please stop putting this type of thing into the Weekly Magazine, even if it is just for filler, because now logging onto the escapist to read the magazine feels like listening too a recording of a Fraudian analysis seminar being given by a scalding mother (deliberate irony) who is speaking directly to you and only to you.
Quote as many statistics as you want but remember that statistics mean nothing to individual. The only people who give a flying toss about statistics are douches in suits and people who make funny t-shirts... and since your tshirts don't do math jokes, you may want too quit with the numbers relative to other numbers before you start too feel like a british newspaper.
OTOH, the "Women aren't turned on by visuals" meme is pretty heavily saturated in society, meaning that most women have been told they're not supposed to be aroused by visuals. I've *also* seen a "scientific" study that, like, strapped electrodes to naughty bits or something pleasant like that and discovered that:
1. the women swore blind that they weren't turned on by the visuals
2. the readouts said otherwise!
If you ask a sex-positive feminist they'll probably bemoan how this shows that modern women have been so shamed and disconnected from their own sexuality that they can't even tell if they're aroused or not. Ask a less sex-positive feminist and the explanation you'll get is that they're just too ashamed to admit it even to a scientist studying their mysterious womanly urges.
Of course, if you want to see a really stupid debate about visuals and male/female appeal, check the comments threads on games involving long-haired bishonen. The fangirls are positively drooling and wriggling in their seats with excitement, while a bunch of confused men either call the game "gay" or say that the fangirls must all be lesbians, cause THOSE AIN'T REAL MEN!
Unfortunately some of those douches in suits are the marketing department who suggest that all gamers want X and we must shoehorn X into our next release!
This made for an interesting read, but the article doesn't account for a lot of factors, like players who don't flock to "M" rated games.
I'm all for feminism, but the ideology isn't without it's flaws. They could just as easily say that "the princess is in another castle" is just another power fantasy: being the hero, saving the day, getting the girl. Is saving the princess the real motivator for playing a Mario game, though? Ask half the people that like playing as the plumber, and they'll tell you that they couldn't give a rip about Princess Peach, or whatever they're calling her, these days.
Obviously, there are people out there who genuinely enjoy beating a virtual hooker to death after she get her knees dirty...I'm not one of those people. I've never played a GTA game, even though I own several of them, and the only time I really enjoy pumping some lead into a body, is when the receiver of bullets is an alien, or the opposite army in a war. Killing innocent civilians in realistic cityscapes is not something I will ever enjoy - I'll still probably go back and play GTA 3 to San Andreas, but those games aren't meant to be realistic (you can drive a tank, for gosh sakes!).
Honestly, stereotyping should be criminal. Someone said that men get attraction from looks more than women, but I know plenty of women who are all too caught up with a guy's appearance vs. his work ethic. If you want to think that videogames are just power fantasies for the men of the world, you go ahead and think that. For me, videogames have always been a fun distraction, a challenge to overcome, something to play with others for a laugh or even for some serious competition.
I'm all for feminism, but the ideology isn't without it's flaws. They could just as easily say that "the princess is in another castle" is just another power fantasy: being the hero, saving the day, getting the girl. Is saving the princess the real motivator for playing a Mario game, though? Ask half the people that like playing as the plumber, and they'll tell you that they couldn't give a rip about Princess Peach, or whatever they're calling her, these days.
Obviously, there are people out there who genuinely enjoy beating a virtual hooker to death after she get her knees dirty...I'm not one of those people. I've never played a GTA game, even though I own several of them, and the only time I really enjoy pumping some lead into a body, is when the receiver of bullets is an alien, or the opposite army in a war. Killing innocent civilians in realistic cityscapes is not something I will ever enjoy - I'll still probably go back and play GTA 3 to San Andreas, but those games aren't meant to be realistic (you can drive a tank, for gosh sakes!).
Honestly, stereotyping should be criminal. Someone said that men get attraction from looks more than women, but I know plenty of women who are all too caught up with a guy's appearance vs. his work ethic. If you want to think that videogames are just power fantasies for the men of the world, you go ahead and think that. For me, videogames have always been a fun distraction, a challenge to overcome, something to play with others for a laugh or even for some serious competition.
I'm gay and so this article both doesn't apply at all and applies horrendously accurately. I'm not manly, and I would take it as an insult if anyone said I was. I am in fact rather camp... But the funny thing is that whilst the spirit of the article does not apply to me (the over-masculine, femininity hating bit) the actual words of the article do (I don't enjoy viewing vaginas. It wouldn't put me off a game, but it would dampen the enjoyment momentairily)
I agree with the article, though. All bar one of the gamers I know personally are terrified of their masculinity being undermined - the fear is heightened by my presence, it seems. The only one that doesn't fit the bill is my boyfriend. This article will be fantastic material for his dissertation on the gender and the psychology of gender, as well... Thank you for writing it, Michael, and thank you for publicising it, Escapist!
I agree with the article, though. All bar one of the gamers I know personally are terrified of their masculinity being undermined - the fear is heightened by my presence, it seems. The only one that doesn't fit the bill is my boyfriend. This article will be fantastic material for his dissertation on the gender and the psychology of gender, as well... Thank you for writing it, Michael, and thank you for publicising it, Escapist!
Yeah this is what I was gonna say.Jiraiya72 said:
Most of those women have probably just bought a Wii for their kids, and have to join in now and then.
Those insights are so 19th century ...
Seriously, I thought modern psychology was way over Freud. At least they were the last time I checked into one of those seminars. Repeating those grand recits over and over again's just the way to make those stereotypes live forever.
I'd love to see an psychological analysis based on the woman to pig relationship in Beyond Good & Evil. That would be an interesting reading.
Seriously, I thought modern psychology was way over Freud. At least they were the last time I checked into one of those seminars. Repeating those grand recits over and over again's just the way to make those stereotypes live forever.
I'd love to see an psychological analysis based on the woman to pig relationship in Beyond Good & Evil. That would be an interesting reading.
OH, now I know how this "best of" thing works.
It's just whatever gets this site the most hits.
Seriously, this article deserves to be in the archives of shame.
It's just whatever gets this site the most hits.
Seriously, this article deserves to be in the archives of shame.
Ok, seriously, I rarely post here, but I cannot even begin to resist the urge.
First off the author is a male, presenting the concept that our gaming culture is representative of fears of women, manifest by damsels in distress as it relates to dominion and over sized machismo be it guns, utilities, attitudes, ect
I think we can at least agree, that games do typify male roles in a more dominant way, Although Last I checked video games are a form of recreation, relaxation, escapisim and fantasy. If there is a fear of women present It would have to lie in not fear of women, but more accurately a fear of a world without masculinity.
Perhaps that is the appeal, after turning on the tv to see countless emotional dramas, reality tv that banks on pointless emotional drama, then commercials come on featuring a movie marketed to young males, featuring the lead role to an effeminite mouseketeer like say Shia Labouf followed by Axe fragrances that insist that if you just feminize yourself, women will like you more. Then get sick of seeing it and change the channel to see pervasive anime, which Otaku culture frequently presents men as nothing more than childish boys who have nothing resembling a spine and are typically subserviant to females desparately begging for their affection. I literally could go on for a lifetime.
Did the author or the cited speaker ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, men get tired of seeing men turned into metrosexuals and effeminate lady boys and seeings as you basically cant do anything in this world that hasnt been hyper feminized over the last 50+ years, Dont belive me? Take a stroll through your local mall, find a Ambercrombie and fitch, Areopostle, Rue 21, Hot topic, Hell basically any retailer gearing for the 15-25 demographic and note that the sections selling mens clothes basically look identical in cuts, designs, colors as the sections selling female garments
Can you really blame a guy to have to turn to video games for anything even remotely construed as representing masculine qualities?
Seriously, its hillarious that the author out and out disclaims him self at the begining by projecting his own subconscious insecurities. All I can say to all of this is just because your too afraid to be a man, dont assume there is something wrong with a culture that allows and celebrates what has worked for the species for 200,000+ years, 3500 years, or since last thursday dependent upon which book you choose to read.
First off the author is a male, presenting the concept that our gaming culture is representative of fears of women, manifest by damsels in distress as it relates to dominion and over sized machismo be it guns, utilities, attitudes, ect
I think we can at least agree, that games do typify male roles in a more dominant way, Although Last I checked video games are a form of recreation, relaxation, escapisim and fantasy. If there is a fear of women present It would have to lie in not fear of women, but more accurately a fear of a world without masculinity.
Perhaps that is the appeal, after turning on the tv to see countless emotional dramas, reality tv that banks on pointless emotional drama, then commercials come on featuring a movie marketed to young males, featuring the lead role to an effeminite mouseketeer like say Shia Labouf followed by Axe fragrances that insist that if you just feminize yourself, women will like you more. Then get sick of seeing it and change the channel to see pervasive anime, which Otaku culture frequently presents men as nothing more than childish boys who have nothing resembling a spine and are typically subserviant to females desparately begging for their affection. I literally could go on for a lifetime.
Did the author or the cited speaker ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, men get tired of seeing men turned into metrosexuals and effeminate lady boys and seeings as you basically cant do anything in this world that hasnt been hyper feminized over the last 50+ years, Dont belive me? Take a stroll through your local mall, find a Ambercrombie and fitch, Areopostle, Rue 21, Hot topic, Hell basically any retailer gearing for the 15-25 demographic and note that the sections selling mens clothes basically look identical in cuts, designs, colors as the sections selling female garments
Can you really blame a guy to have to turn to video games for anything even remotely construed as representing masculine qualities?
Seriously, its hillarious that the author out and out disclaims him self at the begining by projecting his own subconscious insecurities. All I can say to all of this is just because your too afraid to be a man, dont assume there is something wrong with a culture that allows and celebrates what has worked for the species for 200,000+ years, 3500 years, or since last thursday dependent upon which book you choose to read.
*ahem* No.WrongSprite said:
(Although I tend to find the same kind of reaction in places like Games Workshop too. They always assume first that I'm there to buy something for someone else, i.e., a guy. Indie game shops are usually a bit better. And I'll have that tyranid to go, please....)
I said most...please don't assume you are the entire gaming population of adult women.Amazon warrior said:
I actually really enjoyed that article. I wish he cited the statistical sources like a good journalist, but still. It was fascinating.
I don't agree with Freud on everything, obviously. I'm not stupid. But I think he had a lot of ideas that were correct; that insecurities, including sexual ones, inevitably show up in things that we create. I've seen it in my own artwork enough to know that it is a true sentiment. When I'm not even thinking about the implications, I'll draw portraits of women looking away, holding themselves, naked, curled up, hiding their face. It's really an expression of myself, because I am a woman, and a deep sense of vulnerability, fear, and shyness - all of which are traits I am intimately entangled with.
So I don't think it's unreasonable that some female-centric insecurities would niggle their way into video games, which come from developers who are primarily men... Whether that's a fear of commitment, fear of losing masculinity because of a relationship, or fear of rejection, you can see that working into power fantasies where those bad things will never ever happen and you will always be strong and powerful, like in Gears. This speaks more of the developers than the actual gamers, I would suspect.
That's not even a bad thing! That's what fantasies are for - so we can escape real world issues. That's why I draw and why I write stories, and why some people play games. Yes, my works are all separate and stand-alone pieces, but you can also see my internal issues and conflicts influencing them every time. It's unavoidable.
And while I understand how things like "vagina dentata" can seem bizarre and weird (because who the hell would honestly think that a vagina could castrate you?), I feel like there IS a kernel of strange truth to it and similar ideas. Not literally, like I said, but metaphorically. The subconscious works in fucked up ways, taking in your primal fears and desires and twisting them into underlying feelings that you can't exactly articulate without sounding like an insecure ass. God knows how many research papers I've done on it. Psychology is neat.
Anyway. I guess I just wanted people to stop taking this article like some kind of personal attack that YOU ARE JUVENILE AND ALSO DUMB. We've all got some issues we need to either avoid or indulge, and that isn't a bad thing. That's just human, whether the issue is a fear of rejection or the wish to be powerful.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, so I'll go ahead and say thanks for the cool read. I hope we get more like it in the future.
I don't agree with Freud on everything, obviously. I'm not stupid. But I think he had a lot of ideas that were correct; that insecurities, including sexual ones, inevitably show up in things that we create. I've seen it in my own artwork enough to know that it is a true sentiment. When I'm not even thinking about the implications, I'll draw portraits of women looking away, holding themselves, naked, curled up, hiding their face. It's really an expression of myself, because I am a woman, and a deep sense of vulnerability, fear, and shyness - all of which are traits I am intimately entangled with.
So I don't think it's unreasonable that some female-centric insecurities would niggle their way into video games, which come from developers who are primarily men... Whether that's a fear of commitment, fear of losing masculinity because of a relationship, or fear of rejection, you can see that working into power fantasies where those bad things will never ever happen and you will always be strong and powerful, like in Gears. This speaks more of the developers than the actual gamers, I would suspect.
That's not even a bad thing! That's what fantasies are for - so we can escape real world issues. That's why I draw and why I write stories, and why some people play games. Yes, my works are all separate and stand-alone pieces, but you can also see my internal issues and conflicts influencing them every time. It's unavoidable.
And while I understand how things like "vagina dentata" can seem bizarre and weird (because who the hell would honestly think that a vagina could castrate you?), I feel like there IS a kernel of strange truth to it and similar ideas. Not literally, like I said, but metaphorically. The subconscious works in fucked up ways, taking in your primal fears and desires and twisting them into underlying feelings that you can't exactly articulate without sounding like an insecure ass. God knows how many research papers I've done on it. Psychology is neat.
Anyway. I guess I just wanted people to stop taking this article like some kind of personal attack that YOU ARE JUVENILE AND ALSO DUMB. We've all got some issues we need to either avoid or indulge, and that isn't a bad thing. That's just human, whether the issue is a fear of rejection or the wish to be powerful.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, so I'll go ahead and say thanks for the cool read. I hope we get more like it in the future.
Please don't assume that I was only referring to myself.WrongSprite said:
Seriously, the assumption that *most* female gamers are only playing Farmville or because they're humouring children is as insulting as assuming that *most* male gamers are only playing games to gratify puerile adolescent power fantasies.
I wonder how they decided what the "best" articles were from the first six months of the year?
Most agenda-driven?
Most controversial?
Most commented?
Most politically correct?
I don't know, but I re-read this just to make sure it was as absurd as I remember it being. Yep, it was.
Most agenda-driven?
Most controversial?
Most commented?
Most politically correct?
I don't know, but I re-read this just to make sure it was as absurd as I remember it being. Yep, it was.