259: Vaginophobia

[hanako]

Perhaps that is the appeal, after turning on the tv to see countless emotional dramas, reality tv that banks on pointless emotional drama, then commercials come on featuring a movie marketed to young males, featuring the lead role to an effeminite mouseketeer like say Shia Labouf

Yeah, 'cause it's not like commercials on television are full of manly men jokes or that television portrays men of all types (including the popular UglyGuyHotWife combo) where women get mocked as being hideous and fat if they're over 25 or a size 2, or that a vast range of movies don't even have two female characters ever speak to each other, or that film posters almost never put an actress' name as a selling point because it's ALL about the men. And nobody ever makes action movies anymore, gosh! And that thing about casting actresses *younger* than the lead actor as their *mothers* because they're clearly over the hill, or the vast number of movies in which no two female characters ever even speak to each other onscreen cause nobody wants to hear women chatter, or movies written and directed by men which are all about gross-out fratboy humor and only feature a few women in roles as The Nag, or male directors going on the record saying that the real reason female directors are never given mainstream awards is that wimmins is too dumb to make proper movies.

followed by Axe fragrances that insist that if you just feminize yourself, women will like you more.

Women neeeever have to put up with a constant stream of advertising telling them they're too fat, too tall, too short, too dark, too pale, too hairy, too wrinkly, too smelly, too busty, not busty enough...

Then get sick of seeing it and change the channel to see pervasive anime, which Otaku culture frequently presents men as nothing more than childish boys who have nothing resembling a spine and are typically subserviant to females desparately begging for their affection.

And anime culture never includes Spiky Haired Male Protagonists who are the Chosen Ones with their little Nurturing Healer female companion. (I'll grant you, harem comedy anime does have a weird fetish for the Hapless Male Lead, but this is usually more because they think their audience is full of losers who can sympathise than because they hold it up as an ideal. It is rather rude to their fanbase though.)

Did the author or the cited speaker ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, men get tired of seeing men turned into metrosexuals and effeminate lady boys and seeings as you basically cant do anything in this world that hasnt been hyper feminized over the last 50+ years

Yeah, because that gender pay gap was neutralised centuries ago, most major countries and businesses are led by women, women in public roles aren't constantly chided for their failure as mothers by daring to have a job, there aren't movements actively trying to keep girls from being educated even in America and trying to promote Man's Natural Rule.

Can you really blame a guy to have to turn to video games for anything even remotely construed as representing masculine qualities?

Gosh, I never thought of it like that. Good thing there aren't any video games featuring effeminate male leads or women or bright colors that appeal to girls, then!

 

[WrongSprite]

According to the ESA, 40% of people playing games are women. There are almost twice as many women over the age of eighteen who play games than there are boys under the age of seventeen.

I know this is not all women gamers, obviously, but these statistics aren't accurate because they count "playing farmville on facebook all day" as gaming. These are not gamers and should not be grouped together with "actual" gamers.

Yeah this is what I was gonna say.
Most of those women have probably just bought a Wii for their kids, and have to join in now and then.

*ahem* No.

(Although I tend to find the same kind of reaction in places like Games Workshop too. They always assume first that I'm there to buy something for someone else, i.e., a guy. Indie game shops are usually a bit better. And I'll have that tyranid to go, please....)

I said most...please don't assume you are the entire gaming population of adult women.

Please don't assume that I was only referring to myself.

Seriously, the assumption that *most* female gamers are only playing Farmville or because they're humouring children is as insulting as assuming that *most* male gamers are only playing games to gratify puerile adolescent power fantasies.

Insulting? I'd say they're both pretty factual, I know I am

Oh and the main thing I want to say is that I hear, and see evidence of my point all the time, whereas I've never heard anyone go on about adolescent power fantasies, even though it's rooted in truth.

 

[hanako]

And while I understand how things like "vagina dentata" can seem bizarre and weird (because who the hell would honestly think that a vagina could castrate you?), I feel like there IS a kernel of strange truth to it and similar ideas.

I think it's true that "holes" are scary without that necessarily having anything to do with women. That's just an unfortunate coincidence. A dark hole could have anything in it (including a pecker-eating spider! 10 points if you get the reference)

Which is scarier to find when you walk into a room, a sword hovering there whose menace is obvious, or a dark hole whose menace is completely unknown?

 

[Nesrie]

The hostility found in these comments pretty much proves just how insecure some of these male gamers actually are. The 40% is an accurate number, and no amount of chest thumping is going to explain that away.

 

[Rakkana]

Most women don't play real games. They play the casual kind. The flash kind.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

Consider the nominees for the 2009 Game of the Year at Spike's Video Game Awards: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, Left 4 Dead 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, and Batman: Arkham Asylum. Each game is combat-oriented, features male protagonists, and presents a world full of aggressive antagonists in which the player must become a savior. To whom are these experiences most likely to appeal?

I don't even have cable and I know Spike is the "guys" channel, cheesy old action movies and stuff. DUH of course they choose a bunch of cheesy action games. That doesn't reflect on the industry or fans as a whole, not more than it would if the W channel had an awards ceremony for videogames.

Speaking of which, why doesn't the women's channel - or more directly, feminists - have a videogame award show? Then they could present an alternative viewpoint instead of just trying to piss in everyone else's corn flakes, attacking male choices by insinuating that we're gay or afraid of cooties. All in the name of tolerance and understanding, am I right?

I can't say about the stuff in other games, but Johnny hesitating to kiss Meryl in MGS4 is a strawman argument ... he's the very opposite of some bad-ass fighter who shows an uncharacteristic moment of fear when confronted with a woman. He's a pants crapping loser who's been beaten up by both Snake and Meryl over the course of the story for comic relief. When Johnny proposes to Meryl she rejects him, so that SHE can be the one to propose. Johnny being hesitant to kiss is just another of the long line of jabs at Johnny's expense, and to be honest it's probably safer to try and make out with a mountain lion than Meryl if she doesn't feel like it at the moment... it's easily the bravest thing he's done in his life.

 

[Varun Garuda Maharaj]

Fear of women in videogames? that goes to show that your incredibly gay wierd

 

[hanako]

Speaking of which, why doesn't the women's channel - or more directly, feminists - have a videogame award show? Then they could present an alternative viewpoint instead of just trying to piss in everyone else's corn flakes, attacking male choices by insinuating that we're gay or afraid of cooties. All in the name of tolerance and understanding, am I right?

Feminists don't have tv channels. They have blogs.

I do know of a largish feminist videogame blog. Sometimes they're reasonable and have very meaningful things to say. Sometimes they're... kinda out there. And yes, they complain about games a lot more than they pick out games they actually like.

 

[viranimus]

Hanako you are absolutely correct, Yes women have their own disparity and deal with this just as much if not more. But there is a couple of caveats here.

First off, as long as there has been advertising, there has been self image manipulation for the sake of advertising towards women. Even today most market researchers still indicate that about 80% of most marketing is geared toward women, be that postively or negatively. However, the concept of trying to market to men via inferiority complex is more of a recent development within say the last 20 years or so. Quite frankly marketing via inferiority complex should not exist across the board.

Secondly, even with marketing and media corrupting the feminine self image, which again, I wholly agree is wrong, there not trying to turn women into men, now are they?

The point of my comment was not to say games should not show such fear of women, But more accurately to respect that the market of gamers is still as of this date in heavier favor of men vs women (which is finally starting to balance out) and what the dilluded author perceives to be fear of women, is just a manifestation of having an outlet to let men do manly things in the face of a world that around every corner increasingly wants them to be women with peni living in a world where fantasy is dominated by the concept of sex without penetration.

I wish to say I respect women and fully appreciate that yes they have hardships that need to be undone, but by pushing men to become women the war against such transgression is going the wrong way and if it continues men AND women both loose.

Beyond that, I am not trying to come off as a troll. I respect that everything I have ever wrote on any forum anywhere has always been misinterpreted. So ive said my peace, and I leave it at that. Bababooey!

 

[TazTheTerrible]

Speaking of which, why doesn't the women's channel - or more directly, feminists - have a videogame award show? Then they could present an alternative viewpoint instead of just trying to piss in everyone else's corn flakes, attacking male choices by insinuating that we're gay or afraid of cooties. All in the name of tolerance and understanding, am I right?

Feminists don't have tv channels. They have blogs.

I do know of a largish feminist videogame blog. Sometimes they're reasonable and have very meaningful things to say. Sometimes they're... kinda out there. And yes, they complain about games a lot more than they pick out games they actually like.

Psh, I know right? You'd almost think that a majority of mainstream games has issues with gender...

In all seriousness though, this was an interesting article. I'm impressed by how far it dared to go even if the author did feel the need to soften the statement with that joke on the end.

The reactions don't at all surprise me though.

 

[ShadowKirby]

"Our secular culture produces all kinds of fear, including fear of the female anatomy."

I literally lol'd at this and had to stop reading for a minute to regain my composure. Our secular culture does not, in any way, shape, or form, "fear" female anatomy. Quite the opposite, actually, to the point that it's hard to get away from it.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/5/7/

You are confusing culture with individuals. Individuals don't fear the female anatomy but let's just look at television. You can show some pretty violent stuff on tv but the second someone shows a boob, you get social groups (not individual members of the society, but groups) that are up in arms.

Which is scarier to find when you walk into a room, a sword hovering there whose menace is obvious, or a dark hole whose menace is completely unknown?

Nice question.

 

[carpathic]

Don't have a whole lot to add to the discussion here, but it does seem to me that "best of" editions likely might involve some retreads.

That said, an interesting article that tries too hard I think.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

Men's reality is this: there is a very small percentage of men who are considered desirable by women. The rest are evolutionarily speaking buffers and meant to die protecting or providing for the women, children, and desirable men. The hard part is coming to terms the fact that chances are you are in the undesirable category.

Also most of us (us being western first world men) were raised on the bullshit romantic fantasy propagated by Hollywood, Madison Ave, and countless other hucksters. The idea that if a man tries hard enough he will eventually win the affections of a woman who is initially indifferent to him. And then at some point in our lives, we realize that if a girl doesn't like us there is nothing in the world we can do to make her like us.

When it comes to dating remember the immortal words of Tyler Durden: Losing all hope is freedom.

 

[LadyRhian]

I am a female gamer. I certainly don't play the "casual" games. I play mostly RPG's, and not JRPGs, either. Yes, I do play the Sims (and 2 and 3), but my favorite game of all time was Baldur's Gate. I also used to play the Gold Box SSI games back in the day. Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness, Dark Queen of Krynn... I also have played Icewind Dale, Civilization (from the Original to 4, and Civilization: Call to Power as well). Older Games like Crystal Quest, Battlezone (from the Arcades) and Tetris were some of my past favorites.

When the game Baldur's Gate 2 came out, and I found out it had romance in it, I was thrilled. But to be honest, the way it was implemented left me completely underwhelmed. For male protagonists, you had three possible love interests: Aerie, the "Good" character, Jaheira, the "Neutral" character, and Viconia DuVir, the Dark Elf "Evil" character. For female protagonists, you had Anomen, and that was it. He started out Lawful Neutral, and could be turned to either Lawful Good (stuffy, arrogant guy), or Neutral Evil (in which case he became an asshat). Spoiled for choice, female characters were, hmm? Okay, there was a UserMod that allowed you to romance one of the Dark Elf male characters later in the game and have him join your party, which also involved something of reforming him, but it shows who the producers of the game thought were more likely to play it.

RPGs also have players who think it is "gay" if a male player wants to play a female character. It's not seen as strange for a female player to play a male character, but in the reverse, you start having other, immature players accuse the player of being "swishy" or even outright gay, which argues to me that a certain subset of players think that anything female is bad or "icky". Women can play men because that's what everyone wants to be (male), but in the reverse means something is wrong with the player.

 

[hanako]

Beyond that, I am not trying to come off as a troll. I respect that everything I have ever wrote on any forum anywhere has always been misinterpreted. So ive said my peace, and I leave it at that. Bababooey!

No worries, you weren't the one I accused of trolling. It's a complex world out there, and EVERYBODY has crazy expectations they feel pressured to live up to. I don't mean to knock your feelings, I know your stuff can be frustrating as well.

If there's anything I want on the subject, it's for people to be willing to live and let live, and to be more motivated to make their OWN stuff if they don't like what's out there, instead of trying to destroy things other people want. Because YOU (generic you, not you personally) are always the person best equipped to make a game/book/whatever that's got what YOU like in it.

 

[hanako]

Men's reality is this: there is a very small percentage of men who are considered desirable by women. The rest are evolutionarily speaking buffers and meant to die protecting or providing for the women, children, and desirable men. The hard part is coming to terms the fact that chances are you are in the undesirable category.

This isn't unique to men, though. Find me a woman anywhere who's never felt ugly and unwanted. Even a lot of supermodels are amazingly insecure. A small percentage of women meet the hollywood beauty standard. Most women can find *someone, somewhere* if they broaden their standards enough, but so can most men.

Also most of us (us being western first world men) were raised on the bullshit romantic fantasy propagated by Hollywood, Madison Ave, and countless other hucksters. The idea that if a man tries hard enough he will eventually win the affections of a woman who is initially indifferent to him. And then at some point in our lives, we realize that if a girl doesn't like us there is nothing in the world we can do to make her like us.

There's also the romantic fantasy that the *perfect* person is out there for you somewhere and you shouldn't settle for anything less. But people aren't perfect. A lot of girls (and guys) pass up all kinds of chances in their lives because they're waiting for The One, and they'll drop The Maybe at the slightest sign of imperfection... then look back on it years later and realise what a good thing they had going before they threw it away.

That's not to say that you should shack up with someone you hate just to avoid being alone, but most people as they grow up have to take a hard look at their priorities and decide which things really matter and which can be compromised on.

 

[Lucifron]

I don't understand how people can obsess over sexes and sexual stereotypes and insecurities and blahablahoblahargh. I really couldn't care less about "vaginophobia" in games.

The latter is rather indicative of the former.

Why yes, you are right. I am all but certain that there is a correlation between the two!

 

[Bosola]

If you play as men, and you can kill women, it's supposedly a rape fantasy game.
If you play as men, and you can't find women, then you're a misogynistic git to whom women are simple 'not-men', not part of your universe, of your 'symbolic order'.
If you play as women, and can kill men, you're lusting after a sexualized character, made erotic through her generic 'bitchiness' and strength.
If you play as women, and can't kill men, you're obsessed with 'babes'.

You'd think that after recognizing some of the most common double binds in history, the offspring of yesteryear's feminism would be able to spot them today.

One of the biggest issues is that, with enough pseudo-deconstructionist bullshit, it's possible to pose everything as phallocentric (or, as I should really say, phallogocentric). A weapon looks like a penis, so it's assumed to be an extension of one. What if a weapon was more vagina-like? Then, it would be an issue of 'containment' (hijacked from, but essentially kin to Bahktin's sense of the phrase) - 'containing' the threat of the vagina by reposing it as a phallic logos. Or, maybe the weapon's danger is more 'vaginophobia'. Either way, you're a horrid misogynistic bastard, and you should be ashamed of your testicles.

It's nice that people are getting worked up about at least *something*, but for Christ's sake, there's more important issues in gender politics. Like honor killings and female circumcision. Or widespread chauvinism in the developing world. Why not tackle *those*?

 

[ItsAPaul]

Psst, this article is still bullshit. Posting it again doesn't change that.

 

[hanako]

In their defense, there is *always* a more important issue, no matter what your current issue is. If you're saving the planet, you're not thinking of the children, if you're thinking of the children, you're not saving the planet. If you spend your time frantically debating which bad is worse you'd never get *anything* done, and for people who are actually involved with the games industry it's pretty reasonable to think about issues of representation within the games industry.

That said, I'm not sure how productive towards *anything* it is to only focus on deconstructing.