269: The Pasty White Person Is King
- Thread starter Chuck Wendig
- Start date
A few touch on RE5; is that what you were trying to imply with L4D2?kementari said:
They will be drowned out by the 90% of the world.The Aimless One said:
No seriously, it's more the fact that at the moment we only cater to the 20~30% when we can as easily (well, in a sense) cater for the 50~70%.
I think it is an intriguing concept to flesh out. I personally have never really thought about the need for racial diversity in game. I may be panned for that simply because I am a white male, but I don't think that's it. I just strike a melding balance between character avatar and my own projection of self in the immersion that is gameplay. I create male and female characters of various heights and weights in rpg's. I just never really thought about the lack of racial diversity. If I'm playing COD:MW or it's sequel I don't note that I'm playing a European SAS agent (presumably English) rather then an American. When I'm playing GTA:SA I don't note the fact that I'm playing an African/American. I can effectively balance the character design with the immersion of self.
Having said that, I really like the idea of being given more freedom when one gets to set one's avatar to a customized level. Great article. Made me think about the issue at all.
Having said that, I really like the idea of being given more freedom when one gets to set one's avatar to a customized level. Great article. Made me think about the issue at all.
At the time, all I could manage was three pasty white faces.Zero_ctrl said:
But yeah -- now you have an African-American and... well, "other color."
Which is great. I'd love to think somebody read the article and responded, but I shan't be quite so vain.
Thanks for pointing that out!
-- Chuck
I'll be honest - I haven't read all the comments here so I may be going over old ground.
I think the first thing that needs to be mentioned is the use of the word 'race' in the article, and throughout the comments. It has been stated that "any strategy aimed at confronting issues of ?race? and racism needs to start with a more complex and context-specific understanding of the nature of racism". Please do not forget that 'race' is a social construct, there is no biological basis to say Black people belong to a different race than Hispanic people. There is only one race: the human race. So you have to be careful when you use the word, as it can be used in such a way as to give credibility to stereotypes etc. It would be better to talk about ethnicity rather than race.
However, that does not mean there is no such thing as racism. And one thing to bear in mind is that racism is not just BNP/Ku Klux Klan type stuff - a lot of people would argue that they are not racist - "Oh, I have Black friends, so I'm not racist"/"I don't actively discriminate against people who have different skin tones". However, as the Stephen Lawrence report aptly pointed out, racism can be institutionalised - so racism is not only the obvious and deliberate forms of racial hatred but is also related to unintended and thoughtless acts that have the effect of discriminating or producing inequality. And I would argue that by limiting a player's choice in character choice/design, then it could easily be said the games industry is racist.
I think the first thing that needs to be mentioned is the use of the word 'race' in the article, and throughout the comments. It has been stated that "any strategy aimed at confronting issues of ?race? and racism needs to start with a more complex and context-specific understanding of the nature of racism". Please do not forget that 'race' is a social construct, there is no biological basis to say Black people belong to a different race than Hispanic people. There is only one race: the human race. So you have to be careful when you use the word, as it can be used in such a way as to give credibility to stereotypes etc. It would be better to talk about ethnicity rather than race.
However, that does not mean there is no such thing as racism. And one thing to bear in mind is that racism is not just BNP/Ku Klux Klan type stuff - a lot of people would argue that they are not racist - "Oh, I have Black friends, so I'm not racist"/"I don't actively discriminate against people who have different skin tones". However, as the Stephen Lawrence report aptly pointed out, racism can be institutionalised - so racism is not only the obvious and deliberate forms of racial hatred but is also related to unintended and thoughtless acts that have the effect of discriminating or producing inequality. And I would argue that by limiting a player's choice in character choice/design, then it could easily be said the games industry is racist.
armchaircyclist, like you I felt motivated to register just to comment on this thread. Successful troll is successful it seems. Well played, Chuck.
And again, like armchaircyclist, I skipped the bulk of the commentary. So let me just reply to him, also at the risk of going over old ground: you might want to Google up "Lewontin's Fallacy" before declaring the human species to be "the human race." I'm sure Darwin turns in his grave every time someone parrots that threadbare cliche.
You are right about institutional racism however. For example, the kind that's so ingrained, so normative, that it's hard to pin down as "real racism." For instance, degrading an entire people as aesthetically inferior through the use of a sneery little slur like, oh I don't know, "pasty" perhaps?
Oh hang on, that'd actually be pretty blatant racism, now wouldn't it? Hmm... Like I said, splendid troll.
And again, like armchaircyclist, I skipped the bulk of the commentary. So let me just reply to him, also at the risk of going over old ground: you might want to Google up "Lewontin's Fallacy" before declaring the human species to be "the human race." I'm sure Darwin turns in his grave every time someone parrots that threadbare cliche.
You are right about institutional racism however. For example, the kind that's so ingrained, so normative, that it's hard to pin down as "real racism." For instance, degrading an entire people as aesthetically inferior through the use of a sneery little slur like, oh I don't know, "pasty" perhaps?
Oh hang on, that'd actually be pretty blatant racism, now wouldn't it? Hmm... Like I said, splendid troll.
Why should we expect games depicting fictional worlds far removed from our own to be representative of our own? I can understand such concern in games with modern settings, but beyond that I don't get it.
Instead of answering this question the article wastes far too many words on examples of why something should change without explaining how why those examples are examples beyond "hey, there's Whitey again."
Instead of answering this question the article wastes far too many words on examples of why something should change without explaining how why those examples are examples beyond "hey, there's Whitey again."
The whole reason we have difference in race in the first place is due to the different conditions that each ethnic group found itself. African features are a direct result of living in Africa and are adaptions to that environment. If you set a fantasy game with a medieval Briton environment and climate and your back story has migration between parts of the world to be almost non-exsitant then of course you are not going to have your game populated by African facial features or asian facial features, it would be absurd.
If you were to set a game in an African environment then the idea of everyone being white would be absurd but there is much less in the way of evocative imigary to draw on when people think of Africa so it isn't done.
Why should games developers have to create fiction to that is politically correct, if they want to design a fantasy game based off of medieval England then they should be allowed to do so, they shouldn't feel that just because it is fantasy that they should throw in every single representation of human into what is likely a equivilent to a tiny area of land. Think about how far apart people are in the real world and then think about how big that game world really is. Should that 100sq miles really contain a melting pot of all human kind. If Bioware say that darker skinned humans are further north in Dragon Age and that they plan on going further north in future releases then why should the be forced to shoehorn them into where they should not be.
You mentioned Fallout but failed to mention Oblivion the other Bethesda title where you can go a Redguard who have distinctly African features and there are many Redguard in the game enen though it is set in Cyrodil which is where the Imperials origionated from.
I honestly did not like this article, I also don't think admiting that you are being overly harsh should exhonerate the article from critism. If you knew you were being overly harsh you should have dialed it back not just admit to it and then use that as a shield to avoid critism (I dont know what others think but thats very much how it feels to me).
I have no problem with encouraging the games industry to create titles which represent different sections of society. It would be interesting for example to see fantasy games set in an Arabic style land or Asian but I do not agree with the idea that every game should represent a cross section of all humans.
Kaihlik
If you were to set a game in an African environment then the idea of everyone being white would be absurd but there is much less in the way of evocative imigary to draw on when people think of Africa so it isn't done.
Why should games developers have to create fiction to that is politically correct, if they want to design a fantasy game based off of medieval England then they should be allowed to do so, they shouldn't feel that just because it is fantasy that they should throw in every single representation of human into what is likely a equivilent to a tiny area of land. Think about how far apart people are in the real world and then think about how big that game world really is. Should that 100sq miles really contain a melting pot of all human kind. If Bioware say that darker skinned humans are further north in Dragon Age and that they plan on going further north in future releases then why should the be forced to shoehorn them into where they should not be.
You mentioned Fallout but failed to mention Oblivion the other Bethesda title where you can go a Redguard who have distinctly African features and there are many Redguard in the game enen though it is set in Cyrodil which is where the Imperials origionated from.
I honestly did not like this article, I also don't think admiting that you are being overly harsh should exhonerate the article from critism. If you knew you were being overly harsh you should have dialed it back not just admit to it and then use that as a shield to avoid critism (I dont know what others think but thats very much how it feels to me).
I have no problem with encouraging the games industry to create titles which represent different sections of society. It would be interesting for example to see fantasy games set in an Arabic style land or Asian but I do not agree with the idea that every game should represent a cross section of all humans.
Kaihlik
I like to imagine a world where developers take the time to program multiple skin tones, feature control, characters with different physiques (which Gears of War is finally attempting to step away from) and animations to fit the new models. Maybe even hire multiple voice actors so that I can pick someone with a southern accent like mine (unlike Brad Pitt in anything that places him in the south). However, I don't see this happening across all developers. If a business tries to cater to individuals, different aspects will suffer. Here are a few options for the people that are needing a character to project themselves onto. I'm sure developers can put characters in full body coverings (or just leave a blank form to navigate the game with) and do away with voice actors so we don't have to worry about racially offensive stereotyping.
I don't see any of this happening. Developers could work on more non-descript games. Writers could focus on stories that are universal and ignore protagonists that could give any pretext to the story at hand.
In short, I play games to entertained. I appreciate your concern with how this will affect the future of the gaming community. Eventually, these features will be available, or people will just over it.
I don't see any of this happening. Developers could work on more non-descript games. Writers could focus on stories that are universal and ignore protagonists that could give any pretext to the story at hand.
In short, I play games to entertained. I appreciate your concern with how this will affect the future of the gaming community. Eventually, these features will be available, or people will just over it.
One possible solution to this problem would be for game designers to start making more extensive use of distinctly non-human (or 'humanesque' races such as Dwarves and Elves)protagonists in games.
If noone can identify personally with the main character,everyone can identify with the main character equally.
Toejam and Earl were alien to everyone in every way that one can be alien,culturally and physically.(What they were into was most certainly not hip-hop.)
It's a real pity that non-humans tend to be used for kid-friendly platformers rather than being used for an examination of the world through eyes which percieve it in ways that humans never could(outside of a game,anyway.Say,8 round display areas on screen at once in permanent infrared?) or the human condition from an outsider's point of view.
If noone can identify personally with the main character,everyone can identify with the main character equally.
Toejam and Earl were alien to everyone in every way that one can be alien,culturally and physically.(What they were into was most certainly not hip-hop.)
It's a real pity that non-humans tend to be used for kid-friendly platformers rather than being used for an examination of the world through eyes which percieve it in ways that humans never could(outside of a game,anyway.Say,8 round display areas on screen at once in permanent infrared?) or the human condition from an outsider's point of view.
What I get from all of this is that if you have choices you should try and actually make those choices have some deeper value rather than" I can change things", don't simply have skin tones add a few distinct features as well, especially if you want to immerse the player in the game.
If you're giving character creation choices give as many choices as you can and allow those choices to change the game world where appropriate, such as having your family or offspring resemble you. Anything outside of that isn't necessary but is appreciated.
Making the whole game world a melting pot might not make sense for every setting but in DA:O they could of made your family match the apparent race or skin tone of your own character, that's lost immersion. They actually did this better in Fallout 3, I made a black character and the character's father was black as well, I don't know if your mother was as well but the fact that my father was black definitely drew me into the character.
If you're giving character creation choices give as many choices as you can and allow those choices to change the game world where appropriate, such as having your family or offspring resemble you. Anything outside of that isn't necessary but is appreciated.
Making the whole game world a melting pot might not make sense for every setting but in DA:O they could of made your family match the apparent race or skin tone of your own character, that's lost immersion. They actually did this better in Fallout 3, I made a black character and the character's father was black as well, I don't know if your mother was as well but the fact that my father was black definitely drew me into the character.
Mmm, I'm having a little trouble on this one. On the one hand, many games do piss me off with the "paint on" feature, but on the other hand, I'm a little afraid of seeing, "black face" style caricatures of race based on over stereotyped set paths. For my boyfriend and I, playing games like "Fallout 3" where you can have almost complete control over your facial features, we both find that we can pretty accurately get our Mayan noses or dropped-hispanic cheeks in authentically, with lots of work. Who cares if we aren't like the main model? We can fix it.
And in games like WOW where it is so over-the-top beyond us, Screw it, we'll be a troll. If it means we can be a more complex character than an idealized "white-knight-on-shining-horse" paladin, then I can rock my war-child troll rogue any day.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is, I already see enough racist-movies in which every hispanic has an "urban-attitude" and "thick" pseudo-accent. Hollywood makes the whole thing look stupid enough. I don't want my video-games throwing me stale "token" characters, either.
And in games like WOW where it is so over-the-top beyond us, Screw it, we'll be a troll. If it means we can be a more complex character than an idealized "white-knight-on-shining-horse" paladin, then I can rock my war-child troll rogue any day.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is, I already see enough racist-movies in which every hispanic has an "urban-attitude" and "thick" pseudo-accent. Hollywood makes the whole thing look stupid enough. I don't want my video-games throwing me stale "token" characters, either.
So I tried out the Fable 3 villager creator and when I tried to make a villager of either gender I was presented with the option of 3 "black" faces. In fact of the 9 faces I had a choice between either time 3 were "White-British" 3 were "Black" and 3 were "White Other" to use the UK government form terms. Not only this but both Fable 1 and 2 had NPCs who were clearly not "White British" wandering around both times as fairly important parts of the story and as generic NPCs.
Similarly the Fallout 3 engine will not only allow you to create characters of just about any "race" given enough work, which given that the default starting block faces look like lumpy vegetable people is fairly impressive but it also changes the appearance of the character "Dad" slightly depending on the players appearance. He still sounds like Liam Neeson whatever though.
Similarly the Fallout 3 engine will not only allow you to create characters of just about any "race" given enough work, which given that the default starting block faces look like lumpy vegetable people is fairly impressive but it also changes the appearance of the character "Dad" slightly depending on the players appearance. He still sounds like Liam Neeson whatever though.