269: The Pasty White Person Is King

[Kenko]

Three pages basically saying 'yeah...we should improve character creation by making black people look black etc.'

You mention Fallout 3, and say that the characters look white, no they don't. I've never seen anybody who looked vaguely like those characters. The whole article just seems to point out that character creation should be better, well duh!

Seems like a moot point dressed up to seem more interesting than it is.

Fallout 3 was one of the more recent RPG's who had negroid looking blacks rather then the brown caucasian with swollen lips. So anyone who say's that needs a Vindicator Minigun shoved up their pooper.

 

[The Aimless One]

While I basically agree with Chuck's point. I have to say: This will never end.

I am of mixed heritage, I have a rather uncommon skin tone, and mixed facial features.
My bloodline consists of all kinds of ethnicities.
However much I would like it....I'll never get anything better than rough approximation of my appearance.......

My point is:
There's simply far too much diversity to actually cater to everyone.

And if we ever got to the point (however unlikely) where say, 90% of the world's population could be represented by every character creator in every game....

How do you think the leftover 10% would react?

 

[EvolutionKills]

Did Chuck even PLAY Dragon Age: Origins? Hell, select a Human, then go through the presets and there are black/hispanic/asian archetypes. The character editor is easily MORE advanced than Mass Effect's (they both allow you to tweak the same sliders, but DA:O has more, like voice selection).


It's just that Dragon Age and Mass Effect are both from Bioware, both use a modified Unreal3 engine, and both have customizable characters of similar depth. To bash one then praise the other makes no damn sense to anybody that's played BOTH before. I don't know if he REALLY didn't get it (which is sad), or maybe he was trying to make a point and didn't think we'd notice and/or call him on it (which, for a gaming site, is just plain stupid).


That's not to say that I didn't agree with him, I just think he needs to be more consistent. Calling out DA:O like that was cheap.

Again, apologies from me on that point.

I did play DA:O (and, as I say elsewhere on the thread, it should be commended for the way it handles gender and sexuality), but like an asshole I was in the middle of a move and had no access to games during that time. It was a hasty error on my part.

That said, DA:O still has the issue of creating a swarthy character who lives in a very white world: your avatar is less someone of a different race and more someone with a genetic pigmentation problem: "Hey, my family is white, but my skin is deeper than the midnight dark." It ends up feeling the same as WoW: a new coat of paint over a white character.

But I'll totally cop to my error on that, and apologies for doing so.

-- Chuck

Wow, I did sound a little harsh there, didn't I? Sorry about that, but it's good to see you have shown the sign of a true gentlemen! Props.

-Evolution

 

[Stefan Eriksson]

My votes for the three most clueless types of objection to the article are:

1. "Of course they're white! All our fantasy is based on medieval England or recycled versions of Tolkien!"

This motif is my personal favorite.

I mean, no kidding, geniuses. Maybe that's the problem, hey? Maybe a little imagination in "fantasy" settings, which are supposed to be about imagination after all, is in order. Maybe every bloody setting doesn't have to be a clone of medieval England, and maybe there's no excuse for settings that consist of recycled Tolkien cliches.

But this is different from my point. My point is that if you do a detailed fantasy version inspired by Norse and Celtic medieval Europe, such as say Dragon Age or LOTR, there is a reason why "people of color" do not appear.

The fact that too many games focuses on that cultural area is a completely different issue.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

As a gamer and a Mexican-American, I've just recently come to terms with race issues in this nation (Thank you, Arizona...) You know, Moviebob did a video on this as well (Mississippi pwnage or something like that) where he confronted the issue head-on.

I think the main issue is that most forms of geek culture are predominantly white and Asian: comics, manga, anime, video games, tabletop games, and other such games were created mostly if not all by Whites and Asians. As such, these forms of media are aimed at said groups and patronized mostly said groups. It took a while for minority characters to finally break the mold, and they were token ones at that (Black-fill in the blank, for example)

Nowadays, American audiences are too used to a White protagonist to where minority protagonists are overshadowed or simply not selling well (see: Jaime Reyes as Blue Beetle). If we want to see more ethnic-inclusion, we'll need true efforts to reach across the isles and have stories that appeal to minority audiences, preferably written by minorities themselves (Love and Rockets by the Hernandez Brothers, for example). And we'll have to hold them by the same standard or else we'll get crap using the excuse that it's the only alternative for their respective audiences (see: Tyler Perry for Black audiences and...Twilight...shudder...for Women audiences).

PS: I've made sure this post is flame-repellent. I learned by lesson...

PPS: The only Mexican American superhero I could think of was Jamie Reyes: Blue Beetle. The only Mexican superhero I can think of is El Chapulin Colorado. To be fair, superheroism is more of an American thing, I suppose....

Is Jaime Reyes a popular Mexican name? Deus Ex had a scientist named Jaime Reyes. That just randomly came to mind.

I should also point out that I agree completely with your points.

 

[Stefan Eriksson]

Another thing that just struck me: The original author says he need something more than just Skin Deep. Okay, fair; but how do we do it? Having a black character with an African-American inner city slang accent would be awful. Now if you got an actual *African* accent, then it I can accept it. Basically, a black PC living in a Fantasy Medieval Europa should have say a Kenyan accent, not an American accent.

Anyway, another thing, speaking about Dragon Age: Since you can't play as a human commoner, there is *no reason* why you should be able to play a person of color and it making sense (maybe they could throw in a line about you being adopted?), since it doesn't make sense from the cultural context to have a Fereldian noble being anything but white, and preferably a redhead.
Compare this to say the Mage origin where you can be any color you want, because you are an orphan.

 

[cluzapnabber]

Having just read your article, I felt the need to check and see if what you said about WOW character generation is true. IT is not, in about 30 seconds I generated a human male with mahogany skin, a broad flat nose, thick lips, and a flattp haircut. This character still had generic fantasy world clothing but that is a cultural not a racial thing. I don't play the other games you mention, but if your wromg about WOW you might be wrong about them too. PS Do you even know what a Moor is or how few of them would be in a 14 century english village.

 

[Taranaich]

Even Tolkien had the Easterlings and Haradrim. It's hard to tell if he was basing them on real-world cultures, but they were darker-skinned than the Westron peoples most of the main characters came from. Unfortunately they all fought for the villains, but they were there.

There were dark-skinned folk who fought against Sauron, too: the people of Dol Amroth, Pelargir and Lossarnach are noticeably swarthy. (Where were they in the movies?)

And yes, Tolkien was hugely influential on modern fantasy. But there are other influences: the Conan stories had characters of many races.

The thing to remember about both Middle-earth and the Hyborian Age is that they are explicitly set in the prehistoric past of our earth. Therefore, Tolkien & Howard were free to do a lot, but they had to keep to a certain level of historicity. There's also the fact that world politics in Middle-earth are very different from Medieval Europe, where the amount of trade and interchange would've been much smaller due to Sauron's influence.

 

[Mr Pantomime]

Also, i'd like to play as a Hispanic main character in a shooter. Merely a whim though

Remember little old Modern Warfare 2? Remember Sergeant Foley persistently pestering you with comments like "RAMIREZ! TAKE OUT THAT GUNSHIP WITH YOUR KNIFE!"?

Wish granted, my friend!

I might actually play that game again. Now, for your second test, Jewish playable character

 

[BobisOnlyBob]

what really annoys me is when they have a black character in a game just to tick a box eg Sahz from FFXIII, or the sergent from Bad Company 2. I really felt when seeing these characters that the dev team just thought "ok, lets put in this black guy, ok, done, everyone else can be white as usual". I rather that game developers put in characters of different races because they wan to, not because they feel obliged. Also, i'd like to play as a Hispanic main character in a shooter. Merely a whim though

Just Cause 2 is more of a sandbox-explosions game than a shooter, but Rico Rodriguez is definitely more Hispanic than Caucasian, even if the developers do describe him as "mulatto-Hispanic".

 

[Booze Zombie]

I don't quite get you saying that about Fable, really, seeing as "black people" apparently invented gunpowder and katanas in that game's universe.
It also seems that they hate coming to Albion and are only interested in trade, but since they're apparently a combination of African and Asian people, you could argue that they were just doing the Japanese "trade only" thing.

When it comes down to it, though, I don't care if the character I'm playing is white, black or purple.
I played Luis Lopez in The Ballad of Gay Tony, it was a good game and his ethnicity didn't effect my experience (other than him swearing every now and then in a language I didn't speak, of course).

I might actually play that game again. Now, for your second test, Jewish playable character

I don't know about main character, but after a quick search I've discovered that Dr Kleiner from Half-Life 2 is Jewish.
Odd fact, yes, but it's true... apparently.

Also, my main character from Mass Effect 1-2 has a Jewish facial profile, he's the most convincing character I've ever made in the "create-you-own" part of any game, actually.
So, I guess games with custom main characters have room for you to be Jewish, should race actually matter to you.

 

[jmarquiso]

One thing I'd like to see - if it's at a time or place where we'd have to deal with some sort of racism (I'm bi-racial myself) - is to play that out. Moors didn't own property in Albion (which some Moors really did), play a character that has to break through that. Asians were generally merchants? Come to Albion and play that out.

I'd be interested in that.

Of course, then you have to deal with people mistaking a story reflecting racism as being racist.

 

[Falseprophet]

Even Tolkien had the Easterlings and Haradrim. It's hard to tell if he was basing them on real-world cultures, but they were darker-skinned than the Westron peoples most of the main characters came from. Unfortunately they all fought for the villains, but they were there.

There were dark-skinned folk who fought against Sauron, too: the people of Dol Amroth, Pelargir and Lossarnach are noticeably swarthy. (Where were they in the movies?)

Thanks for bringing that up (I haven't read the books in years). So there's even more support for non-pasty white people in epic fantasy.

And yes, Tolkien was hugely influential on modern fantasy. But there are other influences: the Conan stories had characters of many races.

The thing to remember about both Middle-earth and the Hyborian Age is that they are explicitly set in the prehistoric past of our earth. Therefore, Tolkien & Howard were free to do a lot, but they had to keep to a certain level of historicity. There's also the fact that world politics in Middle-earth are very different from Medieval Europe, where the amount of trade and interchange would've been much smaller due to Sauron's influence.

OK, that might be stretching things a bit. While the nations in Howard's Hyborian Age were superficially based on real-world cultures, he had a lot of cultures that didn't exist at the same time in real history as neighbours. You have Bronze Age-level Stygia and Shem (Egypt/Arabia), next to classical Argos (Greece/Rome), next to Dark Ages Aquilonia (Carolingian France).

Also, these works tend to have a lot of anachronism: how many epic fantasy novels have I read where weapons and armour technology have stayed the same for thousands of years, while bookbinding and literacy are commonplace? There might be justifiable reasons for that state of affairs, but few books ever explain why.

 

[Byrn Stuff]

Perhaps it's already been said, but I remember being really impressed with Fallout 3's character creation. I created my lock-picking, scientific, conversing, black dude complete with goatee and when it went through the whole birthing sequence my first sights were of a proud, smiling, black father. I don't remember any other relatives from the game, but I remember how much it surprised me that they would get that detail right.

 

[Mr Pantomime]

what really annoys me is when they have a black character in a game just to tick a box eg Sahz from FFXIII, or the sergent from Bad Company 2. I really felt when seeing these characters that the dev team just thought "ok, lets put in this black guy, ok, done, everyone else can be white as usual". I rather that game developers put in characters of different races because they wan to, not because they feel obliged. Also, i'd like to play as a Hispanic main character in a shooter. Merely a whim though

Just Cause 2 is more of a sandbox-explosions game than a shooter, but Rico Rodriguez is definitely more Hispanic than Caucasian, even if the developers do describe him as "mulatto-Hispanic".

I always thought he was Cuban-American. He reminded me of Tony from Scarface

 

[red dragon 52]

not really fair as there ARE African faces in the Fable 3 character creator...

 

[fabiosooner]

I'll admit I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if these have been mentioned already:

- IIRC, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion character editor did let you alter features in a number of ways so you could have a darker skin and distinct African features.
- The Fallout 3 hispanic mold seemed distinctly hispanic to me. Note: I'm in Brazil.
- Character editors in sports games in general are not shy from presenting distinctive African features in character models. I can attest the Fifa series does this from at least the 2006 version.

This last one may actually say more about how developers approach the issue than one might think, since these are *sports* games. I'll leave the conclusions to you.

 

[wildcard9]

PPS: The only Mexican American superhero I could think of was Jamie Reyes: Blue Beetle. The only Mexican superhero I can think of is El Chapulin Colorado. To be fair, superheroism is more of an American thing, I suppose....

Is Jaime Reyes a popular Mexican name? Deus Ex had a scientist named Jaime Reyes. That just randomly came to mind.

"Jaime" means "James" and "Reyes" means "Kings" in Spanish. So literally, his name is "James Kings". Both are common names.