Silent Hill 2
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
One of the greatest writers of our generation. Love him or hate him, you can't deny Yahtzee is a wordsmith.
Good stuff, I'm liking the "commandments" for storytelling a lot. It is really interesting seeing how, much like you said, developers have overlooked the overall sensational atmosphere set by SH2, Konami included. Maybe we should send each of them a copy of the game and force them to play it.
Reording Mocap and dialouge at the same time.
This isn't going to be possible with a lot of games. Just due to the way trying to schedule voice actors to come in and record lines. Any game that requires a localization, such as when they bring a JRPG to North America, requires dialouge replacement without changing the visuals.
Specifically with Fallout 3: You're right with regards to the fact that the way they just stand there is just creepy. To be honest, I preferred the BioWare approach where the dialouge scenes where shot isometrically whenre they were looking *directly* at you.
It's one thing where you're Disney where you have more money than God. But even with the Lotto-sized budget that most games possess getting someone like Liam Neeson or Patrick Stewart for an extended time is going to be expensive. That's why they're in the game for a whole five mintues before being written out.
This isn't going to be possible with a lot of games. Just due to the way trying to schedule voice actors to come in and record lines. Any game that requires a localization, such as when they bring a JRPG to North America, requires dialouge replacement without changing the visuals.
Specifically with Fallout 3: You're right with regards to the fact that the way they just stand there is just creepy. To be honest, I preferred the BioWare approach where the dialouge scenes where shot isometrically whenre they were looking *directly* at you.
It's one thing where you're Disney where you have more money than God. But even with the Lotto-sized budget that most games possess getting someone like Liam Neeson or Patrick Stewart for an extended time is going to be expensive. That's why they're in the game for a whole five mintues before being written out.
This is true, but I don't think anyone's playing JRPGs for the immersion factor. The high points in that type of game are the story and the grab at the weaboo demographic with anime style artwork, effeminate male heroes and love interests that look 12 but the backstory tells you they've known the hero for 20 years.Raithnor said:
Yahtzee seems to praise SH2 atmosphere a lot but one thing I learned in bioshock is that your personal life can affect how immersive a game is.
When I played Bioshock the first thing I noticed is that I share the main character's name. Ok, that's weird but then there is the fact that a lot of the characters remind me of family members in real life and the deeper a got into it the more connections I made. What's weirder is that I didn't draw these conclusions until after I beat the game and up until then the characters breathed a sense of eerie familiarity, like the game wanted to tell me something.
Yahtzee is there something your not telling us about Silent Hill 2 that reminds you of your personal life? Something that gave the game the extra mile with you?
When I played Bioshock the first thing I noticed is that I share the main character's name. Ok, that's weird but then there is the fact that a lot of the characters remind me of family members in real life and the deeper a got into it the more connections I made. What's weirder is that I didn't draw these conclusions until after I beat the game and up until then the characters breathed a sense of eerie familiarity, like the game wanted to tell me something.
Yahtzee is there something your not telling us about Silent Hill 2 that reminds you of your personal life? Something that gave the game the extra mile with you?
Great perspective of SH2's strengths as an atmospheric and immersive experience.
And yes I already saw those comments about adjusting The Conduit's controls. It doesn't matter how anyone tries to defend that beyond-mediocre FPS. Just like Yahtzee stated we shouldn't have to be forced to modify the controls to make the game slightly more playable, the game's controls should be fitting/usable by default!!! Even if the controls were acceptable it still doesn't improve everything else about that game that makes it so pathetically outdated when compared to every other FPS out there on other consoles.
And yes I already saw those comments about adjusting The Conduit's controls. It doesn't matter how anyone tries to defend that beyond-mediocre FPS. Just like Yahtzee stated we shouldn't have to be forced to modify the controls to make the game slightly more playable, the game's controls should be fitting/usable by default!!! Even if the controls were acceptable it still doesn't improve everything else about that game that makes it so pathetically outdated when compared to every other FPS out there on other consoles.
I would like to hear your take on Silent Hill 1. You're video suggests you did not find the story for Silent Hill 1 that interesting, or at least the characters were boring for you. I've played both Silent Hill and Silent Hill 2, SH1 being the first one I played, and I find that I like SH1 better for its story, game play, and atmosphere.
SH1 was probably my first horror game, and its combination of stealth play, limited ammo, the snowing ash (which everybody calls fog), and what I termed the ElseWhere did very well to frighten me. Perhaps it was just because I was a younger then but when I played SH2 I was not actually ever scared by what was going on around me, I never felt frightened or confined or worried, except for perhaps about my health. The monsters, including Pyramid head, did not come off as scary, just a bit more gross. While I agree certain game play to story aspects of SH2 were improved (the "boss" fights in SH1 didn't make a lot of sense to me), I never found the characters I encountered engaging or really even connected to my plot line, which made their encounters feel pointless. While I get the theory that they're likely lost in their own little hell seeing things ever so slightly differently... I never get to see that, which makes it kinda dull? If the game play had switched between characters, or allowed me some more insight into the other character's worlds...
I understand that I am a minority to hold this opinion but most people whom I meet that feel that SH2 was better have never played SH1. Or perhaps they played SH2 first, then went back to 1 and found it a different style of story from their favorite and therefor didn't like it as much. (I suffer from this in my like of Final Fantasy 3(US) over Final Fantasy 2(US).) Anyway while we know your obvious biases, I'd still like to hear your review or opinions on SH1 separate from the rest of the supposed* slow decline of the SH series after 2.
*I say supposed as I have yet to complete any game past SH2 due to constraints on my free time and the sad death of my PS2, and have only heard that they are not as good. Again from the same people who liked SH2. Perhaps it is because they are more like SH1 than SH2?
SH1 was probably my first horror game, and its combination of stealth play, limited ammo, the snowing ash (which everybody calls fog), and what I termed the ElseWhere did very well to frighten me. Perhaps it was just because I was a younger then but when I played SH2 I was not actually ever scared by what was going on around me, I never felt frightened or confined or worried, except for perhaps about my health. The monsters, including Pyramid head, did not come off as scary, just a bit more gross. While I agree certain game play to story aspects of SH2 were improved (the "boss" fights in SH1 didn't make a lot of sense to me), I never found the characters I encountered engaging or really even connected to my plot line, which made their encounters feel pointless. While I get the theory that they're likely lost in their own little hell seeing things ever so slightly differently... I never get to see that, which makes it kinda dull? If the game play had switched between characters, or allowed me some more insight into the other character's worlds...
I understand that I am a minority to hold this opinion but most people whom I meet that feel that SH2 was better have never played SH1. Or perhaps they played SH2 first, then went back to 1 and found it a different style of story from their favorite and therefor didn't like it as much. (I suffer from this in my like of Final Fantasy 3(US) over Final Fantasy 2(US).) Anyway while we know your obvious biases, I'd still like to hear your review or opinions on SH1 separate from the rest of the supposed* slow decline of the SH series after 2.
*I say supposed as I have yet to complete any game past SH2 due to constraints on my free time and the sad death of my PS2, and have only heard that they are not as good. Again from the same people who liked SH2. Perhaps it is because they are more like SH1 than SH2?
Yes. Yahtzee killed his wife and got an invitation to a creepy town in the middle of nowhere - the only difference being that he drove home and picked up a couple of hookers in his version, and so he finds himself mildly interested to find out what would have happened to him if he'd stayed.Gunner_Guardian said:
But yeah. SH2 was an amazing game with a terrific atmosphere. Bioshock had an atmosphere... but I wouldn't necessarily call it terrific. It was kinda hollow, forced, steam punk/horror that left me with a funny taste in my mouth. It also felt like I was playing part of the Fallout universe, due to the similarities in dark humour and stuff.
SH2 never forced me to like the characters either, which in combination with its multipled endings, gave birth to the "whoever you don't give a shit about dies" multiple endings.
Well, good for me I just got my hands on Silent Hill 2 and am playing it as we speak. But he is right, we seem to have some blasphemers in the gaming industry. (Except for Final Fantasy, which I still like)
Silent Hill 2 handled the multiple endings with such subtle verve. These days games throw moral choice in your face like some decision pie.
I agree fully with his comandments.
One of these days I'm going to have to put my hatred of the controls aside and get back to that game.
One of these days I'm going to have to put my hatred of the controls aside and get back to that game.
I agree with the commandments but I perticually agree with the plot twist command, since sometimes I assume everyone who is friendly to me in a game might turn out to be evil eventually. It sorts of ruins the story on my part. Then again what would make a really good plot twist ofer than character A is acturally evil etc.