Silent Hill 2

[eels05]

I have been enjoying Extra Punctuation, as its not so much an addendum to the ZP episode it's more or less attached to, as it is a unrequired extra. It is not needed to explain the episode, people can pass it by without missing out on anything left out. I find it a pleasure to read Yahtzee's thoughts, as they present a logic that doesn't necessarily translate into the videos. If you don't get Extra Punctuation, you dont have to. You can enjoy ZP without missing out on anything.

Don't get me wrong. I love reading/listening to Yahtzee. He's hilarious and has a similar approach to journalism as I myself do. He's honest and unmerciful and always makes it fun for the audience, and as I've said, I'll likely only read Extra Puntuation when it suits me, I just don't see why it's needed. Anything said in EP can realistically be said in ZP, and EP isn't likely to garner Yahtzee any new fans (let's face it, the majority these days don't like reading... I love reading by the way, before anyone feels the need to flame me) so... Why?

I hate to keep repeating myself, but it's existence benefits nobody in the long run, so again, what's the point?

You are assuming everyone else thinks like you. You don't represent everyone else, you are just putting forth your own opinion. If you don't like Extra Punctuation, then dont read it. Nobody is forcing you to. I, like many others, do enjoy reading, and will continue reading EP and many other articles in the Escapist.

He's not saying that. Yes, that's his opinion, he never said we didn't either. Saying "if you don't like it, you don't have to read it" has nothing to do with the point he was making. It's a shallow and poorly perceived defensive maneuver in response to the feeling that something you liked was attacked.

A better thing may have been to argue why one DOES get something out of extra punctuation, instead of attacking his wording.

For instance, he said that everything in EP can be said in ZP, when in fact, it kind of couldn't if the episode is to be capped beneath five or six minutes, a good length for a funny delivery that doesn't drag on too long about any particular thing (a niche that EP fills perfectly).

I am assuming the main drive behind Extra Punctuation is soley to expand on points made in ZP.Pretty simple really.
Not alot of reason to pontificate over it.
I'm finding EP just as entertaining as ZP.

 

[Norman Rafferty]

Ditto on all the SH2 design points. Love that game.

Side note on the Conduit comments, and in fact, related to other games: you know those annoying "in game" tutorials that are designed to demonstrate the controls? Like, to show off that you can press "C" to make everyone run to a corner that you stare at? .... Why isn't there ever a "calibration demo". You know, like "look over here, then look over there!" to make sure your mouse-speed or your Wiimote or your analog joysticks or whatever are calibrated to compensate for how some players turn like a limping cow? I'm looking at you, Left 4 Dead.

 

[Bloodnick]

That 3 character 10 rooms idea seems interesting, i bet it would work much better than any overly done games nowadays.

I think that Yahtzee is referring to the film Casablanca here, which is one of the greatest movies ever made

 

[fateblade]

Man, you ***** about stuff u like a lot. Lol

 

[BarefootGamer]

SH2 is such an awesome game. It's in my top 3. I think if they'd made the movie based on SH2, and not SH1, and had Sean Bean play James Sunderland that movie would've sucked a lot less. Good article Yahtzee!

 

[Aptspire]

I agree...Games nowadays Need to take a page off their predecessors
Example: Blazing Angels 1: Straightforward plot, incredibly simple controls (explained in the tutorial), very fun, arcad-ey feel
Result: Very hard to find, very much appreciated
Blazing Angels 2: Stupidly mixed-up plot (as well as many technological impossibilities/retardation in the setting), convoluted controls (one of the missions requires you to land your plane WITHOUT telling you how to do it first), most missions feel like a chore
Result: 20$ bin, complete letdown compared to its predecessor, everyone I know hates it (me included)

 

[blacklab]

I'm not trolling, just commenting on the subject. If disagreeing with you = trolling, then I'm afraid you have a long road ahead in this life.

Per your request, blow by blow:

Ok, maybe I'm missing the point here.

-Agreed as I previously mentioned. See below for details.

I mean, it's not like Yahtzee can't write. In fact, quite the opposite, his way with words leaves me in awe of him at times...

-He's generally pretty good, I agree.

But wasn't the whole point behind Zero Punctuation that the review was entirely contained within a video, for my ease and convenience.

-Since when was this all created for your convenience? Why does it have to be any of things you mention above? I can't pretend to know exactly what the point is, but my guess is that he's paid to express his opinion on a variety of subjects regarding games. Usually it's interesting, and drives page views, which is why they pay him for it. I'm pretty sure that your convenience is not a motivating factor.

I love to read, but why the hell should I watch a ZP video, knowing that Yahtzee has had to hold back so he can also write another review, an extension if you will, just because (and here I'll admit I'm assuming... And we all know what that can do at times) The Escapist told him to. It just seems a little pointless to me.

-I'm glad you like to read. It's a wonderful pastime that's going out of style. You should watch a ZP video because it's interesting and entertaining to you. If not, why bother?

 

[Nicholas Traill]

People need to remember that the Final Fantasy series wasn't ALWAYS about looking 'pretty'.

From the beginning to IX - looking pretty wasn't all that possible on the PS1 - but they tried their best with what they had. You start to notice story and gameplay diminishes after the PS2's arrival to the scene.

Whilst I look forward to FFXIII, I'm still very apprehensive about whether or not the story will be good enough to keep me interested, and that the gameplay will be challenging enough, but will help the story flow well too. It has a lot of expectations to live up to for me.

Just wanted to chime that in - FF in the early days, for me, was never really about looking pretty. Enix just came in and bollocks'd it all up

As for Silent Hill 2 - great game, and I agree with ALL of Yahtzee's commandments. Great article, Yahtzee, definitely looking forward to reading the next.

 

[RaiZ-R]

You are assuming everyone else thinks like you. You don't represent everyone else, you are just putting forth your own opinion. If you don't like Extra Punctuation, then dont read it. Nobody is forcing you to. I, like many others, do enjoy reading, and will continue reading EP and many other articles in the Escapist.

Again, you've missed my point, however 144 already cleared that up in his post quoting you, so please refer to that. Maybe it's just the way I'm wording myself, and if so I'm sorry for that. I spend most of my forum posting time on music and wrestling related sites, but it's seems the way I post on those sites does not come across well on games related sites. I'm not sure why.

The way I see it is that Zero Punctuation is used to make his point. You can watch an episode of Zero Punctuation and it will make sense without having to read anything else. Extra Punctuation, however is used to expand on the points made in the corresponding Zero Punctuation. It allows Yahtzee to explain his position, without having absolutely everyone try to second guess him. As far as I can tell, nothing major has changed in the Zero Punctuation videos since Extra Punctuation has started. They are still self contained and complete videos, so what is the big hassle?

Thank you. You are the first person to actually answer my question with any kind of sensible answer, rather than the knee-jerk "don't read it if you don't like it" rubbish. Thank you very much. You have answered me and answered me well, I shall now shut up about this subject.

The point is that the majority of people at the escapist like Yahtzee, he who increased site traffic here by a billion percent (hyperbole). The escapist has decided that more yahtzee = more happy readers, and, for the most part, they are right. I do also like the extra punctuation, I'm sure you'll be sorry to hear, even if you're right in that it may be unnecessary (depending on one's definition of "necessary"). Yahtzee, I'm sure, doesn't mind the salary he gets. And I like extra punctuation because it goes into more depth - a lot of what he says in it might be better hen it ISN'T accompanied by a cartoon.

Also...

He's hilarious and has a similar approach to journalism as I myself do.

...

huh.

I understood that Yahtzee was a big reason that The Escapist is getting the traffic it does. Hell, he's the reason I'm here.

I'm just not one to subscribe to more of something, making it any better. So Extra Punctuation kind of feels like The Escapist trying to cash in on Yahtzee's success without really understanding the reason he became popular in the first place. When I decided to actually sign up (I've been visiting the site for well over a year simply to watch Yahtzee's videos) I caught a glimpse of a video review by someone else for a Turtles game and while it wasn't the same cartoony styling the way the review was presented by the narrator was as if he'd just gone all out to be Yahtzee and it failed miserabley. It wasn't funny and I simply couldn't respect a guy for ripping off someone else's schtick, but it made me think that maybe The Escapist were making all the writers do videos and making Yahtzee do a column, just to standardise the site... Which immediately took away Yahtzee's uniqueness. Not that it mattered though, as whether it's a video or a column, he's still a better critic than the rest of them (in my opinion)

And my journalism reference was simply my noting that I have experiance in the area myself as a music critic, and that Yahtzee seems to have the same approach to it as I do, which is one of the reason why I like the way he writes I guess.

You are assuming everyone else thinks like you. You don't represent everyone else, you are just putting forth your own opinion. If you don't like Extra Punctuation, then dont read it. Nobody is forcing you to. I, like many others, do enjoy reading, and will continue reading EP and many other articles in the Escapist.

He's not saying that. Yes, that's his opinion, he never said we didn't either. Saying "if you don't like it, you don't have to read it" has nothing to do with the point he was making. It's a shallow and poorly perceived defensive maneuver in response to the feeling that something you liked was attacked.

A better thing may have been to argue why one DOES get something out of extra punctuation, instead of attacking his wording.

For instance, he said that everything in EP can be said in ZP, when in fact, it kind of couldn't if the episode is to be capped beneath five or six minutes, a good length for a funny delivery that doesn't drag on too long about any particular thing (a niche that EP fills perfectly).

Thank you. You explained me, better than I explained me.

I'm not trolling, just commenting on the subject. If disagreeing with you = trolling, then I'm afraid you have a long road ahead in this life.

Per your request, blow by blow:

Ok, maybe I'm missing the point here.

-Agreed as I previously mentioned. See below for details.

I mean, it's not like Yahtzee can't write. In fact, quite the opposite, his way with words leaves me in awe of him at times...

-He's generally pretty good, I agree.

But wasn't the whole point behind Zero Punctuation that the review was entirely contained within a video, for my ease and convenience.

-Since when was this all created for your convenience? Why does it have to be any of things you mention above? I can't pretend to know exactly what the point is, but my guess is that he's paid to express his opinion on a variety of subjects regarding games. Usually it's interesting, and drives page views, which is why they pay him for it. I'm pretty sure that your convenience is not a motivating factor.

I love to read, but why the hell should I watch a ZP video, knowing that Yahtzee has had to hold back so he can also write another review, an extension if you will, just because (and here I'll admit I'm assuming... And we all know what that can do at times) The Escapist told him to. It just seems a little pointless to me.

-I'm glad you like to read. It's a wonderful pastime that's going out of style. You should watch a ZP video because it's interesting and entertaining to you. If not, why bother?

Disagreeing with me isn't trolling. Of course it isn't. Trolling is disagreeing without explaining why, which is exactly what you did. I asked a simple question, and you gave a sarcastic and pointless response. That's trolling. And it seems to be your M O. Thankfully, Eupho and 144 have more than made up for you being "smart". It's quite obvious that when I was saying "my convinience" I was refering to all the viewers/readers, not just myself. It would take a very special kind of self-involved moron to truely believe everything was made specifically for them.

 

[Razorback0z]

"Mans gotta know his limitations" Clint Eastwood.

And now Yahtzee too

 

[DaveMc]

My point is, or more specifically, my question is, why? Why does Extra Puntuation exist? (...) It's just extra work for Yahtzee that simply isn't needed.

Maybe someone from The Escapist can comment on this, but my guess would be that they are paying him to write a column in addition to the ZP videos, and presumably that's because people like Yahtzee and they hope that more Yahtzee means more traffic for the site. So I would think that, yes, it's more work for him, but probably it's paid work. (I have no inside information about this, but he's a professional writer, why wouldn't he be paid for writing more for them?)

 

[Bobbyskizza]

I think extra punctuation is a great idea, allowing expantion what he likes or dislikes about a particular game or game mechanic without it having to fit inside a 4 minute video or nesscarly having to funny.

 

[Deadpool062]

I know it doesn't constitute laziness, but when you look at a game as massive as Fallout 3 or Oblivion, with all the thousands upon thousands of lines of dialogue, you must admit that doing mocaps for each and every one of them would lengthen development time significantly. It's also very likely that many of the mocaps would be poor quality and just as hard to believe as none at all, and only doing mocaps for essential characters at essential times would give the impression of inconsistency. Though I do agree they could have made the ragdolls move a bit more.

The "thousands upon thousands of lines of dialogue" are all recorded by the same 6 people, the kids all sound relatively similar the raiders all sound relatively similar, it was probably done all in a few hours. If you want to see what fallout 3 should be like look at the concept art, the pre release concept art that looked so cool it made everyone want to get fallout 3...there are some youtube videos that make it look pretty cool *cough*no pip boy*cough* *cough cough*pip boy is gay*cough cough*

 

[Tailscoolio]

That 3 character 10 rooms idea seems interesting, i bet it would work much better than any overly done games nowadays.

I think that Yahtzee is referring to the film Casablanca here, which is one of the greatest movies ever made

Well now i just feel like an idiot.

 

[PirateKing]

I really missed out on SH2 didn't I? That and Ico are on my list of great games I never got to play.
I guess being kind of a coward when I was little moved my options away from survival horror.

 

[RaiZ-R]

My point is, or more specifically, my question is, why? Why does Extra Puntuation exist? (...) It's just extra work for Yahtzee that simply isn't needed.

Maybe someone from The Escapist can comment on this, but my guess would be that they are paying him to write a column in addition to the ZP videos, and presumably that's because people like Yahtzee and they hope that more Yahtzee means more traffic for the site. So I would think that, yes, it's more work for him, but probably it's paid work. (I have no inside information about this, but he's a professional writer, why wouldn't he be paid for writing more for them?)

I'd say that is likely to be the case, and I guess that's why it's gonna take me a while to accept that Extra Punctuation is really needed. The assumption that more or anything is better is generally completely wrong... Except for with cake. More cake is always better.

 

[Proteus214]

And suddenly, every Gamestop in the world is flooded with requests for Silent Hill 2...
Makes me glad I still own a PS2 lol.

Anyway, OT:
In relation to his comments about big budget games losing all sense of subtlety and mystery, I think this is something that the film industry has been struggling with since the mid-90s. How many movie directors out there completely lost their shit when they all started going "Oh snap! I can make stuff happen that I always wanted to!"
Imagine if movies like Jaws or Alien ended up being big budget CG-fests. They would completely lose all the things that made them special. The greatest innovations in entertainment come from artists using creative means to push their own limits, not from throwing more money at it.

 

[chefassassin2]

Well, that tears it. Now I have to go home and replay Silent Hill 2. Again. I always forget how good it is until someone mentions it, then I go hoke and remember what brought me into gaming in the first place. Thank you Konami, and thank you Yahtzee.

 

[ZerOmega]

I had my first contact with SH2 about three to four years ago, when a friend of mine made me play it (He was too scared to do it by himself). "I don't wanna play your old crappy games." was my answer, but I decited to try it anyway. At first, I wasn't impressed much. Very uncomfotrable playing mechanism combined with old graphics would have been enough for me to quite playing, but my friend insisted for me to keep playing. And so I did.

[a mild spoiler alert]
I think it was somehwere around the hospital scene when I really started getting hang of the game. I just couldn't stop playing, even though I was about to shit my pants everytime I entered into a new room. By the time I reached the jail level, I was starting to get the idea, why my friend didn't want to play the game in the first place. The plot itself was very simple, but it was so well covered and unrevealed that it made me go through all those nasty enemies and damnable puzzels just to see how it all would end.
[/a mild spoiler alert]

Silent Hill 3 was also very good game like its predecessor, perhaps even a bit better. The protagonist was more symphatic. The soundtracks were slitely better. The enemies were more creepier. Although I do have to admit, that the creepy atmosphere was better in SH2. Plus it didn't had Pyramid head, but Valtiel, who was less domantive and more Deus-ex-like, an untouchable shadowy figure behind it all, controlling the cycle between this world and the other.

Now, Silent Hill 4 started better than anyone of the other SH game thus far. The plot seemed very intense. Enemies even more creepier. Level design quite well made and the game mechanics more flexible. But, they just had to screw it up. I'll never forgive what they did to that game. For the sake of not spoiling the plot, I'll just leave this rant here.

 

[Delicious Anathema]

Either in movies or videogames, limitations can be a hidden blessing.

Hiding a monster in the shadows in a movie to seclude its rubber suit nature as well as limiting the horizon by fog in a videogame to work around limited graphical capability, creativity is brought in and as a by-product, it triggers the watcher's/player's imagination was to what might be there, what is it like, is it near or far.

I haven't played any Silent Hill games. I'm planning on starting with the first one.

I was suprised RE4 is a game liked by Yahtzee. I love it to death and I'm playing it for the Nth time, but the quick time events prevent it from being even better, for some reason, I can't press the button quickly enough some of the times in Pro mode. If RE4 was my girlfriend, quick time events would be her male waxing fetish, something so wrong in something so perfect.