40k vs. Starcraft

[TitanAtlas]

Both great games, but Starcraft is more popular due to its simpler approach on rts gaming...

Starcraft is a simple and visually beautifull game to play on, with an interesting story...

On the other hand 40k is much heavier and more dedicated to die hard fans and heavy rts players (you dont start playing 40k and become a master like in starcraft). 40k system is heavier and way more complicated, thus its unpopular due to that. Its the kind of games that you need 2 things... to know the way around the units and buildings and to be a great tactician...

That the huge difference with starcraft nd 40k... the strategies on starcraft are easier, from the way the units move around to the amount of things each creature can or not do... you still will have 'builds' suited to end youre enemy, easy tactics if you will... In 40k you need to know what youre unit does, and how it reacts to every situation, evolve youre squads and upgrade them (or lose them in a completely stupid way, like charging against an enemy). In 40k you win more, by watching the fire of youre units, to know when you need to back down (loosing a squad on 40k is way more heavy and dangerous than loosing a unit or a fist full of units on starcraft).

Both are great games, one for newcomers (not saying starcraft is easy all the time... its multiplayer provides a worthy challenge sometimes with lots of interesting approaches on how to win), and one for the more heavy rts players (if you find a worthy challenger in 40k you could have very long matches!! xD).

Loved the art styles and how both games look similiar in what comes to races ;D

 

[teebeeohh]

Captain obvious strikes again.

 

[Lunar Templar]

I think the internet is well aware of this connection and has been for quite some time.

Your point?

I would challenge that. I saw a post on the topic about the trailer for space marine basically decrying it for being the distillation of everything terrible about the genre "They've even called it Space Marine! How much more unoriginal can you get." I had to explain that Space Marines pre-date any of the pale bastards that dare take the name.

Gamers have this weird thing about games where being the 1st to do something is for some reason really important, whereas being a copy, even if a BETTER copy is somehow inferior.

The way I look at it, Starcraft takes a concept like tabletop gaming and makes it cheaper and user-friendly. And they were massively successful with it. Yeah, 40K came first, but 1st doesn't mean that you are the best.

not always the best , I prefer 40K to SC, due in part to the lore, what little of it I've read, mind you, i claim to know not a whole lot about 40K, but enough to find it better then SC, but that's beside the point.

and really, dose the similarity even matter any more? 40K has its own (better IMO) games, and more over, more then just one kind of game, where as SC is just an RTS, hell even the RTS 40K plays way differently then SC (hell yes to no time wasting farming BS in single player) so ... why do we need to keep going on about this?

 

[weker]

I never really saw the Eldar = Protoss connection though. Protoss are way tougher than flimsy space elves.

Take note of their long heads, slender bodies, physic like powers, love of blades, and general seer themes (acting like sooth sayers and spirit guides)

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Please don't be a troll... please don't be a troll... please don't be a troll...

Look, Starcraft no doubt took some influence from 40k but it is not a carbon copy (especially not because a few things look similar). Plus, it isn't like 40k is totally original in and of itself. Eldar are space elves, 'Nids are Xenomorphs from the Alien series, and Space Marines are influenced by Starship Trooper.

This argument has been done to death. Can we all just avoid the flame war and accept that they're similar but aren't rip-off of each other, but two separate universes that have their own content?

 

[Da Orky Man]

Well it depends, are you comparing Starcraft to the tabletop game or to the "video" games. Because from a video game perspective Starcraft was first to appear.

As if. The first 40k game was Space Crusade, released in 1992. How about Vengeance of the Blood Angels, 1995? Or Final Liberation, 1997?
StarCraft was released in 1998.

 

[Freshman]

As a starcraft fan who also plays 40K, your totally on the ball. The toss and eldar are pretty different IMO, and really I don't think the similarities are too big of a deal. They really only copied one unit for the terran ( I guess reaper = assault marine so 2) and practically all of the zerg... but whatever. 40K still has way better fluff.

 

[weker]

Not keen on starcraft as the only good thing about is the fact that its so well balanced, apart from that I find it as a bland basic rts. dawn of war one is good but i find it hard to get to grips with, the second is much better and is a nice spin on the RTS genre.
I dislike that starcraft 2 didn't add anything to the genre.

 

[manythings]

I think the internet is well aware of this connection and has been for quite some time.

Your point?

I would challenge that. I saw a post on the topic about the trailer for space marine basically decrying it for being the distillation of everything terrible about the genre "They've even called it Space Marine! How much more unoriginal can you get." I had to explain that Space Marines pre-date any of the pale bastards that dare take the name.

Gamers have this weird thing about games where being the 1st to do something is for some reason really important, whereas being a copy, even if a BETTER copy is somehow inferior.

The way I look at it, Starcraft takes a concept like tabletop gaming and makes it cheaper and user-friendly. And they were massively successful with it. Yeah, 40K came first, but 1st doesn't mean that you are the best.

I played starcraft and was mostly unimpressed. It was ok but not the insane orgasmfest that it's supposed to be. Dawn of War 1+2 are far better.

 

[manythings]

I think the internet is well aware of this connection and has been for quite some time.

Your point?

I would challenge that. I saw a post on the topic about the trailer for space marine basically decrying it for being the distillation of everything terrible about the genre "They've even called it Space Marine! How much more unoriginal can you get." I had to explain that Space Marines pre-date any of the pale bastards that dare take the name.

Erm, what? You're challenging what exactly? I never said anything about who was first or anything about Space Marine or the originally of either title. I was merely pointing out that this thread has been done to death and is pretty pointless.

I was challenging that people are well aware that Starcraft is picking over Warhammer 40K territory since so many don't know that 40K is far, far older.

 

[CaptVickHartnell]

Although the overall settings for the games are very different, it can't be escaped that, yes, from a purely aesthetic point of view, Starcraft does take a LOT of cues from 40k. However, even though 40k came first, (and Blizzard have actually come out to say that it was a big inspiration for Starcraft), there are many aspects of 40k that have come about since the first Starcraft, that seem to be drawing the inspiration the other way. We all know the Zerg are almost a carbon copy of the Tyranids, but, when SC first came out, the Tyranids were no where near as richly fleshed out as they are today. Personally, yes I do think Starcraft ripped a few things off, but it's alright because the aesthetic that the two games share has now spread to many other games (video and tabletop) and I think it's really started to achieve what 40k set out to do in the first place: create a general, overarching idea of a sci-fi re-imagining of the general Tolkien-esque fantasy setting that almost every Western fantasy game finds itself in.

 

[Iwata]

Blizzard had one good story. it started with an unpublished point and click adventure game (because you have to write for those) and ended with Wrath of the Lich King (badly)

and ye Starcraft = 40k just as Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was built on the back of a cancelled Warhammer licence and copying Dune II

it has been talked about many times on t'internet.

This man speaks truth. It's not a coincidence that Blizzard's great RTS is greatly similar to my beloved 40K.

 

[TiefBlau]

Basically,

Starcraft is based on Warcraft, which was originally designed to be a Warhammer game, but the planning fell through and it became its own franchise. Because of this, Blizzard RTS has always been noticeably derivative of the Warhammer franchise.

Another interesting thing to note:

The trio of Human-Monstrous Alien-Supertechnology alien is in a lot of franchises. It's not as much a "staple" as Human-Elf-Dwarf-Orc, but it's definitely close.

Terran-Zerg-Protoss
Marine-Alien-Predator
Human-Flood-Covenant
Space Marine-Tyranid-Eldar
GDI-Scrin-Nod
Etc.

 

[weker]

Basically,

Starcraft is based on Warcraft, which was originally designed to be a Warhammer game, but the planning fell through and it became its own franchise. Because of this, Blizzard RTS has always been noticeably derivative of the Warhammer franchise.

Another interesting thing to note:

The trio of Human-Monstrous Alien-Supertechnology alien is in a lot of franchises. It's not as much a "staple" as Human-Elf-Dwarf-Orc, but it's definitely close.

Terran-Zerg-Protoss
Marine-Alien-Predator
Human-Flood-Covenant
Space Marine-Tyranid-Eldar
GDI-Scrin-Nod
Etc.

however the war hammer one has sooo many more, also if anything the orks are the main replacement for zerg in the games.

 

[Legion IV]

SC is a completely different game.

With an extremely similar, near-carbon copy, but much more poorly developed, lore.

Blizzard writers have always been atrocious. It's their mastery of Skinner's box that sells their RPGs, and it's their balance that sells their RTSs. Not their writing.

Your right, If you want great lore and story (besides retribution expansion) get warhamer 40k.

You want a hyper competitve masterfully balaced game with some ofthe best and smoothest gameplay ever get starcraft.

Lore in warhammer is AMAZING outside of the games. I love my miniture army Repent! for tommorow you DIE! (cookie for who knows who my army is) Also the books are awsome.

Games are kind off bleghh. Thule plays a BIG part in like what? 3 games? Latest expansion they dont even TELL YOU what happened and why hes not with the force commander. Oh hes a simple boss choas just rolls over..... Oh but cyrus! hes there! cant leave him out.

What a F*&^&*% WASTE of money.

 

[adrian_exec]

Well it depends, are you comparing Starcraft to the tabletop game or to the "video" games. Because from a video game perspective Starcraft was first to appear.

As if. The first 40k game was Space Crusade, released in 1992. How about Vengeance of the Blood Angels, 1995? Or Final Liberation, 1997?
StarCraft was released in 1998.

Hmm I see. I'll be honest I thought that Dawn of War was the first video game made and any other Warhammer 40k games before that were just board games. But it seems that's not quite true, oh well no shame in being proved wrong.

 

[Valiance]

Yeah, I know that this has been brought up a lot but it really bothers me, and yes I am a Warhammer fanboy but I respect both parties and this is a neutral arguement in the way I'm presenting it.

Yeah, me too. It's unfortunate, isn't it? Consider the possibility that Starcraft was meant to be a Warhammer 40K game, but Blizzard couldn't get the license at the time.

I'm serious, that's the only rational explanation I have for them to do what they did. Either that or Metzen really thinks he's brilliant for ripping off 40K in like, every possible way.

Well it depends, are you comparing Starcraft to the tabletop game or to the "video" games. Because from a video game perspective Starcraft was first to appear.

As if. The first 40k game was Space Crusade, released in 1992. How about Vengeance of the Blood Angels, 1995? Or Final Liberation, 1997?
StarCraft was released in 1998.

Ohohoho.

You forgot to mention Space Hulk [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Hulk_%28video_game%29]. It scared the shit out of me when I was playing it when I was like 6 years old, lol.

 

[Ice_Orchid]

the only carbon copy i see here are the reply's, doesn't any one read the other posts before replying? but to the subject at hand.
both IPs took most of they're design notes from Heinlein and other writers(not to mention that both have dribble for "lore" and plot compared to decent Scifi novels), and from a visual design point SC did the better job, WH40k is over designed with every thing from the marines to the bugs being too elaborate and eye straining compared to the simpler and clearer look of SC.

 

[Twad]

I think the internet is well aware of this connection and has been for quite some time.

Your point?

Needed to vent some steam, I know its been around forever as I said.

Well, it isnt new. IIRC the starcraft team started working on a warhammer game before they split (for XYZ reason). Now even if they kinda look alike on the surface, they are both very much different both in lore and gameplay.

I love both. Warhammer 40k is a rich setting ( i use a ultramarine army, pretty solid) and the tabletop game is FUN. Starcraft is fun too and i like the storyline.

On a random note I think the Ultramarines are a little too over-used, not that they don't look cool or anything, don't get me wrong, it's just that they should use the Dark Angels or Imperial Fists, Space Wolves, Soul Drinkers, etc. Just to give a little more diversity instead of using one chapter of hundreds.

Yes they are used a lot, but for a begginer they are an easily understood army that forgive mistakes (3+ armor save helps a lot) and still have solid options.

 

[Ninjat_126]

I don't know if any WH40K players realise this, but WH40K's story is complicated as fuck.

Starcraft is simpler, more compact and easily accessible, but the price they pay for that is less variety and less originality.

I'm sure WH40K has better characters, better gameplay, better story, better everything, but Starcraft is basically pick up and play and requires virtually no introduction.