7 year old commits suicide

[Ragsnstitches]

The kid had problems and shit happens.

That's why the TC had nothing to add, because there is nothing to add.

The only one at fault here is the kid.

The kid is the only one who cannot be faulted by this act. Most 7 year olds do not have the emotional capacity to deal with the shit they might face. It is up to parents, teachers, "Figures of Authority" and friends to help people out when they are that young. The responsibility lies on their many heads.

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

Society is responsible. We are all responsible.

I am now done. I cannot be bothered trying to explain how wrong it is to assume that a 7 year old has the ability to deal with what the world throws at them without support. Nor can I be bothered explaining just how wrong this quasi-nihilist thought that "Bullying makes you stronger and is essential" is.

TLDR;

Sucks. Kid should have recieved more help. Stop blaming a 7 year old for killing themselves. Doing so makes you a horrible person.

John Donne... Cute.

You can crusade all you like to make it seem like this kid was perfectly normal for offing himself, but he wasn't. You have no proof that this kid was NOT offered all the support he needed, so why make the assumption that he was left alone.

Why do I feel like all the anti-bullying crusaders were never bullied?

I was bullied to a pretty substantial degree, and it made me a better person. My parents got a divorce when I was young and it taught me about life. I was emotionally stable enough to handle it, and this kid was NOT.

Stop playing the blame game from the top of your altruistic high horse and just accept this for what it truly is... a freak accident.

Made you stronger? HAH... from here you seem like a weak and meager individual. Are you afraid to feel sympathy for another person. Do you think it weak to help those with less fortune or fortitude?

Should we just not try? Yes these things happen, lives are taken even with help... but what is it you expect? That the people who put a child in such a position not be blamed? That the influences in that childs life that drove him to such extremes, shouldn't be dragged out into the light and judged?

This was not an accident. There are people to blame for this... not for the act, but for the environment or atmosphere that nurtured such thoughts. There is a problem, and it needs to be addressed.

Lacking empathy or even basic compassion is a flaw, not a strength. You think it has toughened you up, but it has actually rotten you to the core. For all your bravado, all I see is immense insecurity and lack of personal confidence.

You're not strong. You're a miserable husk. Tough on the outside, nothing on the inside.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Why do I feel like all the anti-bullying crusaders were never bullied?

I was bullied to a pretty substantial degree, and it made me a better person. My parents got a divorce when I was young and it taught me about life. I was emotionally stable enough to handle it, and this kid was NOT.

I handled my parents' divorce, because I was only 6 months old. But bullying? That wrecked me. I ended up going to two different psychiatrists because I was getting bullied at school, and then went home to be verbally abused by my stepfather. You may say that verbal abuse is not the same thing, but all that changes is who is doing the bullying. Saying that "I was bullied, and it made me better, so anyone saying that bullying is bad has never been bullied" is an insult to anyone who's actually suffered from it. It seems you didn't actually suffer, but rather had it happen to you. There is a difference.

On-topic: This is just...depressing. I've been in that state of mind before, but not until I was 21. At seven? Wow...

But you're admitting that the damage from bullying is circumstantial, and nearly impossible to judge... ESPECIALLY if the bullied person is repressing their emotions.

I just don't think anyone is necessarily at fault here except the kid. I'm not saying he intentionally was messed up... it just happens. The world is a messed up place.

I agree that it is impossible to judge how bullying affects someone, and I can see where you are coming from. I just took a bit of offense at the suggestion that anyone who is affected by bullying is weak in some way.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

Made you stronger? HAH... from here you seem like a weak and meager individual. Are you afraid to feel sympathy for another person. Do you think it weak to help those with less fortune or fortitude?

I said it made me a better person, but I guess it did also make me somewhat stronger. It got me into much better shape, but it especially helped me shape the person who I wanted to become more-so than I would have if I hadn't been bullied (as far as I can tell). In this way, I am grateful for those who bullied me.

Oh... and no, I do feel sympathy for the child... but I also feel sympathy for those left behind, who you are all willing to bash with no real knowledge of the situation.

Did I say I thought it "weak to help those with less fortune or fortitude"? No... I didn't. I didn't even allude to that lol.

Should we just not try?

Try what? You're gonna fix this single miniscule freak accident by ridding the world of bullying from the Escapist. A word of advice:... Pick your battles.

Yes these things happen, lives are taken even with help... but what is it you expect? That the people who put a child in such a position not be blamed? That the influences in that childs life that drove him to such extremes, shouldn't be dragged out into the light and judged?

This was not an accident. There are people to blame for this... not for the act, but for the environment or atmosphere that nurtured such thoughts. There is a problem, and it needs to be addressed.

If you think there is a real problem, do something to fix it. If you can't think of anything to do, then shut up and deal with it. People have banded together and shunned outcasts since before the development of language. What the fuck do you think you can do to fix it?

Lacking empathy or even basic compassion is a flaw, not a strength. You think it has toughened you up, but it has actually rotten you to the core. For all your bravado, all I see is immense insecurity and lack of personal confidence.

You're not strong. You're a miserable husk. Tough on the outside, nothing on the inside.

Wow, I'm really not sure how to address this one.

I think you have a serious problem with assumptions. When you postulate about a theory, it's good to know evidence from all sides. You sit there and judge me as having no emotions, yet it is I who believe you to be the emotionless zombie, acting as a puppet along with the rest of the anti-bullying crusade. I feel for the family which you all blame with no knowledge of the situation, where-as you all rally the cavalry to attack them full force as being the problem.

Life is tough, and sometimes you have one or two people who can't handle it. Blame whoever you want, the only one who killed this kid, was the kid himself.

 

[Ickorus]

Well that sucks.

Can we please stop treating bullying as if it's 'a part of growing up' now.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Made you stronger? HAH... from here you seem like a weak and meager individual. Are you afraid to feel sympathy for another person. Do you think it weak to help those with less fortune or fortitude?

I said it made me a better person, but I guess it did also make me somewhat stronger. It got me into much better shape, but it especially helped me shape the person who I wanted to become more-so than I would have if I hadn't been bullied (as far as I can tell). In this way, I am grateful for those who bullied me.

Oh... and no, I do feel sympathy for the child... but I also feel sympathy for those left behind, who you are all willing to bash with no real knowledge of the situation.

Did I say I thought it "weak to help those with less fortune or fortitude"? No... I didn't. I didn't even allude to that lol.

Should we just not try?

Try what? You're gonna fix this single miniscule freak accident by ridding the world of bullying from the Escapist. A word of advice:... Pick your battles.

Yes these things happen, lives are taken even with help... but what is it you expect? That the people who put a child in such a position not be blamed? That the influences in that childs life that drove him to such extremes, shouldn't be dragged out into the light and judged?

This was not an accident. There are people to blame for this... not for the act, but for the environment or atmosphere that nurtured such thoughts. There is a problem, and it needs to be addressed.

If you think there is a real problem, do something to fix it. If you can't think of anything to do, then shut up and deal with it. People have banded together and shunned outcasts since before the development of language. What the fuck do you think you can do to fix it?

Lacking empathy or even basic compassion is a flaw, not a strength. You think it has toughened you up, but it has actually rotten you to the core. For all your bravado, all I see is immense insecurity and lack of personal confidence.

You're not strong. You're a miserable husk. Tough on the outside, nothing on the inside.

Wow, I'm really not sure how to address this one.

I think you have a serious problem with assumptions. When you postulate about a theory, it's good to know evidence from all sides. You sit there and judge me as having no emotions, yet it is I who believe you to be the emotionless zombie, acting as a puppet along with the rest of the anti-bullying crusade. I feel for the family which you all blame with no knowledge of the situation, where-as you all rally the cavalry to attack them full force as being the problem.

Life is tough, and sometimes you have one or two people who can't handle it. Blame whoever you want, the only one who killed this kid, was the kid himself.

Okay, taking a step back from my earlier Knee Jerk reaction, I retract everything I said. It's a topic that hits a bit too close to home. Let's discuss this with a bit more tact on my end.

You said it makes you a "better" person. We can omit anything after that, as this is completely subjective. You think your better for whatver reason you do, and I think your worse off, base on a blatant, even brazen lack of compassion. Neither of us are right or wrong in this regard.

Who is it you think is responsible for the childs mental health? The child? A 7 year old can't even cross the road without supervision. A 7 year old is incapable of self medication or diagnosis. He just acts and reacts.

I never said who was to blame. I said there are people to blame. I don't know who, this is only one side of the story. However, Suicide is a not a sign of a healthy environment, it is the a very strong indication that something is terribly, terribly wrong. There can be any number of factors putting unwarranted pressure on a person... a child is even more susceptible to these influences, not less. At 7, the barebones of the person you will become are being forged by the family, the community and even the media. Depending on exposure to these stimuli and other individual nuances, a child will react and adapt to their environment, shaping you as a person.

But this brings me to the issue. What could possibly have implanted the notion of suicide into this childs head? How did he come to the idea that death is a release from suffering? What could have made him think so little of himself? These are the questions that need to be asked, these are sources of that communities problem, not just the child.

As for this statement:

If you think there is a real problem, do something to fix it. If you can't think of anything to do, then shut up and deal with it. People have banded together and shunned outcasts since before the development of language. What the fuck do you think you can do to fix it?

So you think inaction is preferable to anything other then the 100% guaranteed solution? I hope you know science would have died as a practice if they followed this line of thought. People just don't sit on their arses waiting for an epiphany. They submerge themselves headlong into a problem and with time, solutions can be found.

As for me? Well I will make a not not to support the ignorance you seem to preach. Action is better then inaction. If someone has a problem they can't surmount, they should be encouraged to talk about it, not ignored or brushed aside. If the worst case scenario happens, then a solution for similar problems in the future needs to be deduced from it.

If you want to live with cave man ethics then go ahead. Just keep it to yourself.

Now before you bow out and claim "meh, nothing I can do", think again. Suicide is a social phenomenon. This means Society is culpable when it happens. That is everyone. The only way to confront it is to acknowledge there is a problem, and source the issue.

It's all very simple in theory. Something is broken and it needs to be fixed. If we aren't directly involved with the solution, we can at least alleviate the impact of the problem.

"history repeats itself"

-Captcha, this post, Escapist 2012.

 

[chuckman1]

That sucks.
I had suicidal thoughts at that age but luckily I didn't follow through.
Stress is real hard to deal with especially when you're young.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

You said it makes you a "better" person. We can omit anything after that, as this is completely subjective. You think your better for whatver reason you do, and I think your worse off, base on a blatant, even brazen lack of compassion. Neither of us are right or wrong in this regard.

I know myself an innumerable percentage better than you, so you aren't qualified to judge my character in any way shape or form. I KNOW I am better off because I was bullied and the way I handled it. Your only choice here is to believe me or not. Any assumptions you would like to make are based around your ignorant perception of surface data.

If you think 3 or 4 posts on a webforum over the course of a single day are enough evidence to judge specific aspects someone's character, then you are, simply put, a moron. First we have the mutual "close to home-ness" of the situation, and then you have to factor in my mood at the moment,
daily disposition towards life, and even location play a huge part in my word choice here on this website, right now.

So in summation... don't judge me. I could make up aspects about your character and how you are an overly compassionate person to portray yourself as better than others, when really you are just as selfish as the next guy, but I won't do that because I'm better than that.

I know, right? That's some textbook forced irony in that statement.

However, I can assure you that you are 100% wrong if you think I am not a compassionate person. I'm sorry you feel that way based upon the way I am treating this one single situation, but don't assume you know me what-so-ever because of a few words.

Who is it you think is responsible for the childs mental health? The child? A 7 year old can't even cross the road without supervision. A 7 year old is incapable of self medication or diagnosis. He just acts and reacts.

I never said who was to blame. I said there are people to blame. I don't know who, this is only one side of the story. However, Suicide is a not a sign of a healthy environment, it is the a very strong indication that something is terribly, terribly wrong. There can be any number of factors putting unwarranted pressure on a person... a child is even more susceptible to these influences, not less. At 7, the barebones of the person you will become are being forged by the family, the community and even the media. Depending on exposure to these stimuli and other individual nuances, a child will react and adapt to their environment, shaping you as a person.

But this brings me to the issue. What could possibly have implanted the notion of suicide into this childs head? How did he come to the idea that death is a release from suffering? What could have made him think so little of himself? These are the questions that need to be asked, these are sources of that communities problem, not just the child.

This is a loosely veiled semantic issue and I will leave it at that. You can either blame the environment in general without pointing any specific fingers, or you can blame the child for poorly handling the environment. But none of us are really knowledgeable enough of the child's rationale to point fingers at any one specific thing. Hell, for all we know, the kid didn't give a fuck about the bullying or his divorce, and was heartbroken over some grade school crush. Or it was just the divorce. Or it was just the bullying. Or the kid had some serious self esteem disorder which was beyond any sort of help that may or may not have been offered.

So I'll redact the statement that it was 100% the kid's "fault" because that comes off as harsh, but I still believe that many other people go through the same if not FAR FAR FAR worse situations and don't take the easy way out. Some of these kids have no help at all and have to fight their way through on their own.

And ALL suicides, young or old, are taking the gift of life for granted... and I mean that from a 100% non-spiritual POV.

Regardless...

I've come to the conclusion by the borderline abrasive "you're just a meanie who doesn't care about other people" attitude that you are one of those people who believes they can save the world.

Fair enough.

I would love to see you do so. I help by existing and contributing to the people I care about (OMG I has emotions!) and if I can help by doing something important, I sure as hell will.

But tell me and my cave man ethics (or basic logic as I like to put it)...

What is the true problem in this specific situation? And what makes you so sure that's the problem?

and most importantly (like I said before)

What the fuck do you think you can do to fix it?

(And please explain it without the vague pretentious public speaker bs. I mean come on dude,

It's all very simple in theory. Something is broken and it needs to be fixed. If we aren't directly involved with the solution, we can at least alleviate the impact of the problem.

you sound like a campaigning political nominee.)

"ridiculous, clearly made up captcha"

-Captcha, this post, Escapist 2012

 

[Susan Arendt]

Why do I feel like all the anti-bullying crusaders were never bullied?

I was bullied to a pretty substantial degree, and it made me a better person. My parents got a divorce when I was young and it taught me about life. I was emotionally stable enough to handle it, and this kid was NOT.

Good for you. I was bullied to the point of wanting to kill myself because I couldn't bear the thought of life being an unending stream of unhappiness and loneliness. The only reason - literally, the only reason I'm here today - is because someone at school told me that if you kill yourself your family has to clean it up and I believed them. If you made it through bullying with flying colors, good for you. Appreciate your good fortune instead of looking down on those who weren't as lucky.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

You said it makes you a "better" person. We can omit anything after that, as this is completely subjective. You think your better for whatver reason you do, and I think your worse off, base on a blatant, even brazen lack of compassion. Neither of us are right or wrong in this regard.

I know myself an innumerable percentage better than you, so you aren't qualified to judge my character in any way shape or form. I KNOW I am better off because I was bullied and the way I handled it. Your only choice here is to believe me or not. Any assumptions you would like to make are based around your ignorant perception of surface data.

If you think 3 or 4 posts on a webforum over the course of a single day are enough evidence to judge specific aspects someone's character, then you are, simply put, a moron. First we have the mutual "close to home-ness" of the situation, and then you have to factor in my mood at the moment,
daily disposition towards life, and even location play a huge part in my word choice here on this website, right now.

So in summation... don't judge me. I could make up aspects about your character and how you are an overly compassionate person to portray yourself as better than others, when really you are just as selfish as the next guy, but I won't do that because I'm better than that.

I know, right? That's some textbook forced irony in that statement.

However, I can assure you that you are 100% wrong if you think I am not a compassionate person. I'm sorry you feel that way based upon the way I am treating this one single situation, but don't assume you know me what-so-ever because of a few words.

Who is it you think is responsible for the childs mental health? The child? A 7 year old can't even cross the road without supervision. A 7 year old is incapable of self medication or diagnosis. He just acts and reacts.

I never said who was to blame. I said there are people to blame. I don't know who, this is only one side of the story. However, Suicide is a not a sign of a healthy environment, it is the a very strong indication that something is terribly, terribly wrong. There can be any number of factors putting unwarranted pressure on a person... a child is even more susceptible to these influences, not less. At 7, the barebones of the person you will become are being forged by the family, the community and even the media. Depending on exposure to these stimuli and other individual nuances, a child will react and adapt to their environment, shaping you as a person.

But this brings me to the issue. What could possibly have implanted the notion of suicide into this childs head? How did he come to the idea that death is a release from suffering? What could have made him think so little of himself? These are the questions that need to be asked, these are sources of that communities problem, not just the child.

This is a loosely veiled semantic issue and I will leave it at that. You can either blame the environment in general without pointing any specific fingers, or you can blame the child for poorly handling the environment. But none of us are really knowledgeable enough of the child's rationale to point fingers at any one specific thing. Hell, for all we know, the kid didn't give a fuck about the bullying or his divorce, and was heartbroken over some grade school crush. Or it was just the divorce. Or it was just the bullying. Or the kid had some serious self esteem disorder which was beyond any sort of help that may or may not have been offered.

So I'll redact the statement that it was 100% the kid's "fault" because that comes off as harsh, but I still believe that many other people go through the same if not FAR FAR FAR worse situations and don't take the easy way out. Some of these kids have no help at all and have to fight their way through on their own.

And ALL suicides, young or old, are taking the gift of life for granted... and I mean that from a 100% non-spiritual POV.

Regardless...

I've come to the conclusion by the borderline abrasive "you're just a meanie who doesn't care about other people" attitude that you are one of those people who believes they can save the world.

Fair enough.

I would love to see you do so. I help by existing and contributing to the people I care about (OMG I has emotions!) and if I can help by doing something important, I sure as hell will.

But tell me and my cave man ethics (or basic logic as I like to put it)...

What is the true problem in this specific situation? And what makes you so sure that's the problem?

and most importantly (like I said before)

What the fuck do you think you can do to fix it?

(And please explain it without the vague pretentious public speaker bs. I mean come on dude,

It's all very simple in theory. Something is broken and it needs to be fixed. If we aren't directly involved with the solution, we can at least alleviate the impact of the problem.

you sound like a campaigning political nominee.)

"ridiculous, clearly made up captcha"

-Captcha, this post, Escapist 2012

Captcha wasn't made up but whatever, it's irrelevant.

So we can we chalk your stance up to personal experience? You managed to overcome something, maybe many things and because of that you are who you are now? Fair enough, I can agree. This is the exact same reason for me lashing out at you...

But are you telling me the reason why you persevered through hardship was that you valued your life? Or at the least, it was a particularly strong force in your life? You did it all on your lonesome, with no supporting friend or family member?

Okay, let's cut out the filler and rhetoric here...

Have you ever had a thought of suicide? Have you ever come to a point where that felt like a choice? Because what's apparent here is that you seem to think people who make this choice do it out of lazyness or ignorance, rather then desperation. You seem to discount the notion that it may even have an underlying medical conditioned... YES people can be depressed for reasons other then external stimuli.

Also, the argument that others MIGHT have it worse, when you yourself said you just don't know what led to this kids suicide, just doesn't sit well with me. You decide to settle on something mundane and insignificant as an example, something that grossly underestimates the problems that lead to suicide, then arrogantly claim that others have it worse. Blanket Statement much? Of course others have it worse, but does that make the problems less significant for that individual? There isn't a metric system to judge the severity of a person mental health nor is there a value system to what influence causes what damage to an individual.

Everyone has different thresholds. Willpower is not evenly distributed among communities. We are not living in an age in the west where where sick babies are left to die or plague victims are mercifully executed. We advocate helping others, like people born with mental/physical defects, people who struggle with social norms shouldn't be abandoned...

What follows is a relatively long account of some issues I faced and I how I got around them:

I have a high value on life. There are certain things I just avoid due to even slight risks of permanent, life altering (or even ending) outcomes. But even with that, I've (very recently) hit such a low point that suicide had crept into my thoughts and it festered. Ultimately I ended up in total reclusion, no friends, a family who didn't know what they could do for me and a college that thought I was just lazy and uninterested in my Dream career. Everything I had ever valued had left me. My family, who actually did care, didn't know what to do, everything they did seemed to make me sink even further. My future looked like it shattered and was irredeemable.

Life is nothing without these things, just mere existence... or at least that was the thought that crept into my head.

But something happened to me that just triggered something, a reservoir of strength I didn't know I had. An old friend from years gone got into contact with me and because he was so distant from everything that was currently affecting me I decide to meet him. Through him, without even an ounce of effort on his part, he reinvigorated me enough to get out of the rut I was in. It was surreal for me, he was so happy to meet me and was delighted to catch up on things. On reflection of things that happened when we were still close friends everything he said just made me feel better. It was like I could breath after a long period of struggling.

I can't explain why this one event had such a resounding impact on me, but it did. I took this event to heart and for a few years afterwards I was still trying to figure out what it was that changed things for me. The conclusion I came to was simple, he was the only thing that didn't carry any negative weight with me and he was just being nice to me. Nothing more then 2 friends chatting made a huge amount of difference for me.

As a result, I dug my way out of my predicament, got help, both professional and from my family, discussed the issues I had with my college, was allowed a year deferral for recovery and still keep my place in the year. Everything was going back to the way it was...

Except that my parents got a divorce, but as a result of Counselling it became abundantly clear that my mother was the source of pretty much every underlying issue that got me into that state, so my bond with the family had weakened. Turns out, without even knowing it, my mum was mentally and emotionally abusive. The tough thing about that is it's impossible to spot for by anyone, only retrospect makes it obvious.

/Story

So you ask what it is I do to stop suicide? Well for one thing, I know I can't stop it. I try to be friendly at all times... though evidently from my knee jerk reaction above that isn't a guarantee. You never know how a few positive words might help someone and conversely you never know how badly a few negative words might affect someone. I offer sympathy and support to people who suffer from issues that they can't bring themselves to address. I've already deferred 2 friends and one friend of a friend to a counsellor of their own (through my counsellor).

I do what I can for those close to me, like you, but what's more I actively strive to be compassionate for people I don't know.

It literally requires no effort.

 

[Ickorus]

Well that sucks.

Can we please stop treating bullying as if it's 'a part of growing up' now.

Funny how you assume it was the reported bullying and not his parents splitting up.

And of course you know nothing about his home life except that it was unstable due to the split up. For all you know he was getting a nightly bend over session from the mom's new bf.

But no, it must be your pet cause.

Bullying IS part of life. If you don't learn how to deal with it then you will have trouble when you run into workplace bullies, partners/friends who bully in relationships, even sales/insurance/etc agents.

We should teach kids how to appropriately deal with bullying, and we should do our best to reduce serious bullying, but we should not bubble wrap our kids.

I never said his parents splitting up had nothing to do with it, I would thank you if you would not put words in my mouth.

And about bubble wrapping our kids, no, we shouldn't, but neither should we teach them to meekly accepting bullying as an inevitability, instead we should teach them that bullying is unacceptable and should be fought whenever it rears it's ugly head.

Punish bullies much more harshly and if they re-offend then punish them even harsher, doing this teaches kids bullying is not going to be profitable for them and it encourages them to report bullying when they see it happening; this mentality of not accepting bullying would soon enough roll over into adult life and we would see a marked drop in bullying in the work place.

I was bullied as a kid, it had nothing but a negative impact on my life and whilst I recovered and grew more resilient for it I don't think that was a good thing at all, it's just made me a more introverted and private person.

I am certain that without bullying my life would be so much more.

 

[Caliostro]

I'm pretty tempted to say that at 7 years of age you don't "commit suicide" in the sense that you don't have a full intellectual awareness of the consequences of your actions. It's like saying a 4 year old commit murder... They don't really understand what they're doing.

As for the whole "being bullied thing"... Yeah... Things are never as straight forward as "kid was bullied therefore they killed themselves". Everyone is "bullied" at some point. Kids who kill themselves over it generally have other things troubling them. I'm willing to bet that wasn't a clean and nice break up between the parents.

Which isn't to say there aren't legitimate concerns with bullying. Some situations really do take it too far. That's the problem with the term "bullying": it has became so broad it's effectively meaningless. "Bullying" covers everything from being insulted and seriously physically assaulted and humiliated on a daily basis to "some kids make fun of me" or, the even more laughable, "people online tell me bad things!". Best I can tell, there's never any reference in the article as to what "bullying" actually constitutes in this situation...

The first is definitely something to avoid, though that kind of widespread absolutely dysfunctional social behavior is generally a symptom of deep, deep, social maladies. The second is a case of "man the fuck up".

That's ultimately the problem with "bullying". It's such a non-descriptive term. It bunches together things that are literally considered torture with the most absurd shit... Like that case recently where they wanted to legally prosecute people because some jerk off was whining on an online forum, and people told him to go off himself, and he did! That's not bullying. That's a Darwin award.

So yeah, tragic story, way too much left out to make any educated judgement besides "Shit happens. That's life.".

 

[Goofguy]

I doubt I even understood the concept or definition of suicide at that age. I was too busy just trying to have fun with friends to even see that darker side of life.

 

[hazabaza1]

Jesus.
That's supposed to be the happy "do whatever the fuck you want with no consequences age."

Christ this is fucked up.

 

[smurf_you]

This doesn't sound right to me. How did the kid even know how to kill himself like this? I know when I was really upset when I was 7 the only thought in my head was to run away, not to kill myself. Someone's planted the idea in his head to do this, it's not the sort of thinking 7 year olds have.

Um I dunno... as an example, I started cutting myself at around that age (from a multitude of reasons I won't go into here) and I can tell you no one every put the ideas in my head.... I just had the idea and started doing it

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

Why do I feel like all the anti-bullying crusaders were never bullied?

I was bullied to a pretty substantial degree, and it made me a better person. My parents got a divorce when I was young and it taught me about life. I was emotionally stable enough to handle it, and this kid was NOT.

Good for you. I was bullied to the point of wanting to kill myself because I couldn't bear the thought of life being an unending stream of unhappiness and loneliness. The only reason - literally, the only reason I'm here today - is because someone at school told me that if you kill yourself your family has to clean it up and I believed them. If you made it through bullying with flying colors, good for you. Appreciate your good fortune instead of looking down on those who weren't as lucky.

I'm not looking down on anyone. All I'm saying is if you are considering suicide because of childhood bullying, it's because you're kind of a soft person. Being soft will get you nowhere in life, and if you honestly ONLY didn't kill yourself because you didn't want your parents to clean it up, you had/have a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

Anyone who has studied psychology will tell you that it is NEVER normal to seriously consider taking your life, and if you have you NEED to get help.

Now, there are laws in place today (in America at least) that weren't in place just 40 years ago as far as abuse in school. My dad went to school in Newark in the 60's and bullying is NOTHING today compared to what it was back then. Yet, today, bullying is more of an issue. There's MUCH less physical bullying and, hell, there's probably more bullying online than in real life, but STILL kids are taking it to these drastic measures.

I was always a smaller kid, and I got picked on a lot (They called me "stick boy" lol) and I got my ass kicked a few times. The first time it happened, I told my dad, and he told me that it would end when I stopped letting it happen. Jesus Christ did I try so hard to not let it happen. I fought back and would get beat harder. I tried to be friends, and was ridiculed for it. But one day in junior year of high school, it just stopped. I felt amazing because I never gave up, and was a much bigger, more confident person as a result.

Now while your milage may vary, I know for a fact that a lot of these new "cyber-bullied" kids don't have it nearly as rough as I had it, but they are still going as far as killing themselves. The problem has to lie somewhere that hasn't been explored yet.

Maybe it's not a problem with bullying, but it's a problem with the fact that we are making our kids a little too soft by trying to protect them from everything and not teaching them to stand up for themselves like my dad's parents did. And like my dad did.

I'm NOT saying that's an absolute truth. But it makes a lot more sense than that the kids today are just becoming soft for no reason.

Okay, let's cut out the filler and rhetoric here...

Have you ever had a thought of suicide? Have you ever come to a point where that felt like a choice? Because what's apparent here is that you seem to think people who make this choice do it out of lazyness or ignorance, rather then desperation. You seem to discount the notion that it may even have an underlying medical conditioned... YES people can be depressed for reasons other then external stimuli.

Of course I've thought of suicide. It's ALWAYS a choice. It's ALWAYS the easy choice. It ALWAYS has and always will be the easy choice. The thing is that a strong person will ALWAYS come to the conclusion that suicide is not a viable solution and will fight to fix the problem. A weak person will conclude that suicide is in fact the best solution, and that person needs help. We instinctively know that suicide is the worst way out, but the fact that so many people feel pity for suicide cases makes it almost an alluring concept.

I VERY VERY HIGHLY DOUBT THAT ANYONE WHO COMMITS SUICIDE IS THINKING ANYTHING OTHER THAN "That'll show 'em." OR "They'll be sorry when I'm gone."

If we looked at suicide with a less pitying light, maybe less people would seriously consider it.

I literally just said it could have been a medical condition in the last post. I hate to say this again, but semantics plays a huge part here. If the fault lies with a disease the person has, does the fault also not lie with the person? It's clear Dahmer had some sort of mental disease, so is it not his FAULT that he killed those people?

The answer does not exist here, and no one should truly be faulted in this freak accident (as I said before).

Also, the argument that others MIGHT have it worse,

Trust me, others DO have it worse. I don't care if this kid was beaten daily (which I highly doubt), others DO have it worse

when you yourself said you just don't know what led to this kids suicide, just doesn't sit well with me. You decide to settle on something mundane and insignificant as an example, something that grossly underestimates the problems that lead to suicide, then arrogantly claim that others have it worse. Blanket Statement much? Of course others have it worse, but does that make the problems less significant for that individual? There isn't a metric system to judge the severity of a person mental health nor is there a value system to what influence causes what damage to an individual.

Everyone has different thresholds. Willpower is not evenly distributed among communities. We are not living in an age in the west where where sick babies are left to die or plague victims are mercifully executed. We advocate helping others, like people born with mental/physical defects, people who struggle with social norms shouldn't be abandoned...

And I think all of this pandering to children and forcing them to accept everyone is a part of the reason why bullying has evolved.

Story

Sorry boss, but it sounds like you are or have been a very troubled person. While I feel for you, I can't help but blame you for your problems. I can't help but think that if you were a more weathered person you might not be this way.

I can't relate to a lot of people, I've lived in multiple different countries, and I don't look at friendships or family as meaningfully as others do. When I was in Africa, I saw children quite literally starving to death. I saw children whose parent's had recently died get dragged away to orphanages. Now, in America, I look at a kid who fucking hangs himself over mommy and daddy issues and getting a little beaten up in school and, SORRY, but I can't help but blame the child.

You might be right in a sense though. My anger is somewhat blinding. It is the way the society raises these kids that truly makes them so susceptible to the idea of suicide and it really is unfair to blame them for the way they were raised, but the problem is NOT that bullying needs to stop (it won't).

I strongly believe the problem is that as we evolve as a society into this happy-go-lucky ball of acceptance, we are forgetting how to teach the youth how to defend themselves against hate.

I love America, and I believe people are truly the same wherever you go, but America is one of, if not THE worst offender of super ultra political correct bullshit.

So sure, I try to be nice to everyone I meet until they give me a reason to do otherwise. Most sane people do. But the things I've seen and done show me that I should ALWAYS be prepared for the worst. There are things far worse than bullying and divorce in this world, and if you can't handle that then you really have a lot in store for you.

EDIT:

I see this childs death as a failing of society as a whole.

I agree, but in a different way... see above.

 

[Ickorus]

Well that sucks.

Can we please stop treating bullying as if it's 'a part of growing up' now.

Funny how you assume it was the reported bullying and not his parents splitting up.

And of course you know nothing about his home life except that it was unstable due to the split up. For all you know he was getting a nightly bend over session from the mom's new bf.

But no, it must be your pet cause.

Bullying IS part of life. If you don't learn how to deal with it then you will have trouble when you run into workplace bullies, partners/friends who bully in relationships, even sales/insurance/etc agents.

We should teach kids how to appropriately deal with bullying, and we should do our best to reduce serious bullying, but we should not bubble wrap our kids.

I never said his parents splitting up had nothing to do with it, I would thank you if you would not put words in my mouth.

And about bubble wrapping our kids, no, we shouldn't, but neither should we teach them to meekly accepting bullying as an inevitability, instead we should teach them that bullying is unacceptable and should be fought whenever it rears it's ugly head.

I never suggested being meek. I in fact said we should have systems in place to help teach them to deal with it appropriately. I've also suggested in other threads on this topic marshal arts training, particularily in WenDo or Judo.

As for not putting words in your mouth, your comments focussed entirely on bullying, as if that was all that mattered and this death proved somehow your point when we don't even know that bullying was related to the death.

Punish bullies much more harshly and if they re-offend then punish them even harsher, doing this teaches kids bullying is not going to be profitable for them

Actually that just ends up making things worse much of the time and often ends in silly policies that permananetly kick kids out of school in (or before) their teens, pretty much guarenteeing they will be thugs for life.

I am certain that without bullying my life would be so much more.

Now you are just blaming others for yourself. Why are you so certain of that?

I'll start with the last question; I put it in there but I'll expand on it.

I recovered and grew more resilient for it I don't think that was a good thing at all, it's just made me a more introverted and private person.

When I was a kid I was very extrovert and active, I liked helping people, laughing, and generally being me, I then decided to help this one kid who was a bit of a crybaby and a wimp which sadly instead of lessening his bullying instead simply got be branded as a pariah with him. Fast-Forward past years of bullying to today and marvel upon the remarkably thick shell I built to hide the real me behind, I'm not a different person, I still love all the things I loved as a child but now nobody sees the real me unless I consider them friends.

And about the making it worse thing, I did originally put in a bit saying that social services and such should identify the reason for the bully being the way he or she is as if it's a repeat offender there's most likely a problem in their personal life, I must have edited it out and forgot to put it back in.

 

[him over there]

That's um... That's certainly something. A combination of a child who doesn't totally understand the consequences of the real world and the events in it and what appears to be a dysfunctional home life is a little too common for my tastes. I mean kids might know that death exists but it's usually told to them in half truths like "sleeping forever" or "going away for a long time".

As for the whole bullying thing? As someone who has both been bullied to a ridiculous degree and attends one of the worst high schools in the area I live I can say that bullying is ridiculously overblown simply because of how disingenuous it is. Bullying in school is anything from "beat up the kid with a different skin colour until he suffers severe medical damage and take any of his money every single day" to "Almost everybody in the class as a hole refuses to sit near or talk to the kid with poor hygiene who eats his boogers." There is a huge difference and I can't comment on it until I know what sort of "bullying" he went through.