8-year-old's Uzi death at gun show

[Eatspeeple]

Hmmmmm. I've got a fictional scenario in my head.
"We wish to sue you! You failed to warn us that the chainsaw could be dangerous. Without prior instruction, how could we ever know that it couldn't be operated by a six month old!"
It seems like society is plummeting into an abyss where everyone is responsible for everyone elses actions, and none of their own. The parents should be hanged, it was their own fault for taking their child to a Lethat implements show. But no, no, it was the guns fault for jamming. If he hadnt been taken thhere, by you, he wouldn't be dead.

 

[Speeing]

They defend their guns because a couple of centuries ago someone wanted to be safe from bears and hostile natives.
Personally I think there is nothing more foolish than outdated rules in an otherwise modern nation.

Nah, I'm pretty sure it was the "secede from England, defend selves against tyrannical government" bit that entrenched the idea of being able to defend yourself in the American mindset. That ideology still exists, only now it is aimed at defending ourselves against our own government, along with crime.

For example, the English out there should be able to appreciate this: Try putting CCTV cameras on every street corner with an armed populace intensely concerned about privacy rights.

The entire concept of an armed populace is to keep power in the hands of citizens, in the event that the government becomes tyrannical. All politics essential boils down to capability to exert force. It's very difficult to exert force over a people who are armed and wary.

and at last for the "usefulness" of guns... I never encountered a situation that i EVER needed one, for anything.
And you know why?

I'm not living in a fuckin' war zone...

You ever been to Detroit?

 

[Heathrow]

Sorry, I'm confused I thought we'd banned the use of fully automatic weapons in the US why did this kid even have an Uzi?

 

[TheECP]

I am a gun owner, and I fully support our right to bare arms....but holy GOD, 15 year olds should NOT be handing out LOADED guns to 8 YEAR OLDS. That is horrible. Whoever was responsible for that 15 year old being in that position should really be to blame, and the parents should NOT ave trusted a 15 year old to teach their son to handle this gun, that is irresponsibility at its finest. Just because it involves guns I notice a lot of people take a stab at it, but this is just parenting and bad elders.

 

[Spekter068]

Why try to discuss this?

The very nature of this story shows there's no point in trying to have discussion because so many Americans (as evidenced here) are extremely defensive of their gun culture.

No point.

While giving up and crossing our fingers in hopes that Americans won't kill themselves would be easy, still the rest of the world must attempt to do something to stop this insanity.
They defend their guns because a couple of centuries ago someone wanted to be safe from bears and hostile natives.
Personally I think there is nothing more foolish than outdated rules in an otherwise modern nation.

You are by all means entitled to your opinion, and I agree that outdated rules in a modern nation are rather idiotic.

However, banning guns doesn't strike me as a good idea. They make up a fair portion of our economy, and the vast majority of gun owners only use them for recreational purposes and make sure to follow the rules of gun safety. It's stories like this that makes us look bad.

Many of us [gun owners] aren't at all unreasonable concerning gun control, and it's unfair to assert that we cling to our firearms for the sole purpose of defending ourselves. Plus, we Americans in general are very uncomfortable with the idea of removing things from the Bill of Rights in general. It just doesn't feel right.

Personally, I don't oppose gun control- It's pretty obvious that something isn't right about our system, but there's got to be a better answer than banning firearms completely. It can't just be black and white. The more shades of gray you can see, the better.

 

[Spekter068]

Springfield? As in Springfield, Texas?
I think that says it all.

Interestingly enough, I have never seen 'Texas' abbreviated with 'Mass.'

Usually, when someone says 'Mass,' they mean either the weight of an object divided by the force of gravity, a religious ceremony, or a northeastern province of the United States known as MASSACHUSETTS.

 

[MrA]

When has a gun ever saved someones life? Just a thought....

I mean seriously, giving a gun to an 8 year old is such a stupid move, It's unbelievable that the parents would even let their 8 year old son hold a gun! in what universe is that ok?!

 

[Ekonk]

Gun shows are for lunatics anyways. No offence, but a public display of weapons specifically designed to rip the life out of people? Srsly?

Seriously. Did you also know that some people collect guns and never fire them? Did you also know they sell guns that don't even work at gun shows? Have you ever been to an antique show? Your assumption that everyone who goes to a gun show is a lunatic is preposterous. I've been to a couple in NH here in the states, and I've seen nothing but courteous consumers and people willing to help with any questions you may have.

I'm sure they are, and I see the appeal of collecting etc, but I simply can't get over the microscopic issue that guns are and always have been designed to kill people and animals. This particulary gruesome incident reminds us of that, and it kind of puts me off. I'm sure you can understand that as well.

 

[Nieroshai]

1. Those parents and that instructor were idiots. It's a KID! Don't give a KID a WEAPON at ALL, especially if you usually keep your guns locked up to KEEP THEM FROM YOUR CHILD!
2. Wow. Someone actually died at a gun show.... I can see how this rare occurance is going to be blown up into anti-gun propaganda about how gun shows kill kids. Whether you think guns should be legal or not, you have to admit an actual killing at a gun show at least was unheard of. As is robbery at a gun show.
3. Wow.
4. Just wow.
5. I'm gonna go to bed now and hope I forget this.

 

[chronobreak]

I'm sure they are, and I see the appeal of collecting etc, but I simply can't get over the microscopic issue that guns are and always have been designed to kill people and animals. This particulary gruesome incident reminds us of that, and it kind of puts me off. I'm sure you can understand that as well.

Fair enough brother, I guess I can't really fault you for having a great deal of respect for any form of life.

 

[Blatherscythe]

The kid shouldn't have been near the gun in the first place, and it's also the teens fault for giving him a faulty gun. Still, sounds more like manslaughter than anything.

 

[Rigs83]

Yet the Americans are still so firm about defending their right to bear arms, you never seem to hear about guns saving people just constant tragic accidents and attacks with them.

Spoiler: Long short of it

Americans like violence. The first Americans came here to kill mammoths stayed to fish, farm and hunt while occasionally killing each other for a few thousands years until assholes from Europe came claimed the land for themselves and introduced disease and genocide to the local populace until their colonists got a hair up their asses and seceded and formed their own nations and continued the fine tradition of mass murder of indigenous peoples when not killing each other for fun, profit and madness.

 

[Blatherscythe]

Hahhaha, hilarious! Doubly hilarious with some of the commentary here!

Why not go to a gun show?
How is an art exhibit any more or less wrong for an 8 year old, considering guns kill far less children then the bus he had to take every day of his life?

This was a hilarious tragedy which is made even more hilarious because it will provoke people who don't think logically to say "well gosh, if only he hadn't been allowed near guns"!

Yes, guns are terrible instruments of life and death, but when we live in a world where the car is far more of a blood god than anything actually designed for destruction, the rules may just be a bit different from what your intuition tells you.

tl;dr: this wasn't sad or tragic at all.

Seriously... Go fuck yourself... It's fine that he's there but he shouldn't have been allowed to try a gun out, same goes for the teen.

 

[rcuhljr]

Well now that the entertaining troll has finally quieted down, a few points stand clarifying. Firstly this wasn't a gun show. Live ammo and gun shows are a no-no. This was some kind of range event where you pay a couple bucks and get to try out the exotic weapon.

Sorry, I'm confused I thought we'd banned the use of fully automatic weapons in the US why did this kid even have an Uzi?

It's not illegal to own or operate a fully automatic weapon as long as it's licensed and was manufactured before 1986 source [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act]

And the only other point I wanted to touch on was Woem's linked 'research' regarding that you were more likely to be shot if you carried a gun. The study has a lot of flaws which are discussed more here link [http://volokh.com/2009/10/05/guns-did-not-protect-those-who-possessed-them-from-being-shot-in-an-assault/]. However even that ignores the major concern I have with his work, the people he selected randomly, had a 53% criminal record rate, which seems suspect to me. Concealed carry licensees have a significantly reduced crime rate compared to the general population, on the order 14 times less likely for general crime and 6 times less likely for violent crime. link [www.txchia.org/sturdevant.pdf]

 

[Nieroshai]

Sorry, I'm confused I thought we'd banned the use of fully automatic weapons in the US why did this kid even have an Uzi?

"Automatic weapons," is a misleading statement. AK-47s are legal. But they're automatic weapons, aren't they? No, because the civilian model is semiauto. One pull, one bullet. Same with any other "automatic weapon" that's legal to buy. Yes, unmodded automatic weapons are illegal.

 

[Lexodus]

What part of 'fucking lunatic retards'...?

 

[Bob the Average]

Okay that story doesn't pass the sniff test. no gun show I've ever been to had a range as part of the attraction. second it's likely the parents had already taught the child to shoot (i learned when i was 9). what probably going on was they had rented* the gun and the 15 year old was there to make sure they didn't wander off with it (do to the stringent regulation on machine guns that uzi is worth several thousand). for the OP how the jam was cleared isn't what their questioning their questioning the overall condition of the gun. what i wonder is what the hell happened? did the kid point the gun at him self or what?

*you can't leave the range property with a rented gun, so don't worry about people renting for a drive-by.

 

[Mcface]

The title in itself contains a couple of words that shouldn't be used near eachother. The story behind it is even worse. Read it for yourself: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/10/christopher-biziljs-famil_n_351732.html

My European brain has issues understanding this. So first of all we have a family that thinks it's a good to take an 8 year old kid to a gun show. Then we have 15 year old instructor who is demonstrating an Uzi. This teen clears the Uzi and gives it to the 8 year old to try it out. Apparently up until this part there is no problem at all. I do see a problem with a teen being a gun instructor, or a kid going to a gun show, or a teen giving a gun to a kid to try it out. But again, that must be my European close-mindedness.

Now here is the real issue: the gun jams, and the kid shoots himself in the head. Quote from the article:

The boy's family claims the gun was defective and unreasonably dangerous, and they blame the failure to properly service it.

So the big issue in this whole story is that the gun jammed and as a result of that, the kid shot himself. It's no problem that the kid is at a gun show in the first place, or that a teen is handing out guns to kids, or that the kid is trying out guns. That's all just fine. But because it wasn't cleared properly the Uzi was deemed unreasonably dangerous. So when an Uzi is cleared properly it is reasonably dangerous for a kid to try out? If the kid hadn't shot himself it would have been a successful family trip. This really blows my mind. No pun intended.

Trust me, it's much better to get gets involved with guns at a young age, so they grow up respecting, and knowing how to properly use, or handle a weapon.
The fact a 15 year old kid was doing the instructing however, is bat-shit-fucking insane.

 

[True-Asmodeus]

people stop your fucking arguing. yanks are retards end of. Those that argue that they are not are yanks or retards themselves. Makes you want to be Osama's cheerleader.

 

[Alphavillain]

From the article: "The boy's family claims the gun was defective and unreasonably dangerous". Dangerous? Unreasonably? A gun? And a machine gun at that? Ya don't say! My reservoir of sympathy has finally run out.