A better protest than going vegetarian

[alandavidson]

I like your idea, it makes sense and it will ultimately help local farmers.

Personally, I'm pretty much a vegetarian because I'm allergic to a crapton of foods (which includes most meats) and have to very carefully watch what I eat. It's not for political/animal rights/whatever reasons, it's just to keep me from being in insane amounts of pain and bleeding from the inside.

For those who do it for reasons other than health, just make sure you get enough protein.

 

[Beliyal]

snip

I did before&after tests, there was no significant difference in favour of before. The most iron I had was while I was taking the pills, obviously. If we remove the pills, the numbers said that the situation before was terrible and the situation after was substantially less terrible, but still, anaemia is present (due to genetics, as the tests showed). However, the feeling is different. Before, I couldn't do much physical work and everything quickly made me feel weak and tired. I couldn't train volleyball anymore and as much as I loved skiing, I had troubles with it, because everything tired me easily and I was eating meat at that time, even more than before because the doctors recommended it (I remember my grandma cooking me various types of liver all the time). Now, however, no such problems occurred. I study archaeology, we go to digs for two weeks and we do physical work 8 hours a day and honestly, I was a bit afraid I might not be able to do it, but when I got there, I had no problems. People were actually quite amazed that after 8 hours of hard work, I required no sleep when we would get home, like many others did. And I finally enjoy skiing again without being tired. But it depends on the person, of course. I believe it's because I generally started eating more varied food and I really love it more than what I ate before. Before, I couldn't really eat anything else than meat, because it filled me too quickly and I couldn't eat much of it. But vegetarian food I can eat a lot and I believe it gives me much more vitamins than poor half a stake (literally, I was full after half a stake, it annoyed everyone) I could barely put in me. An entire bowl of some Chinese cuisine I find much more tasty and much more nutrient.

About periods, yeah, I've heard of situations like that. My situation was horrible, because I was constantly afraid I'd get those problems when I really have things to do. But now, I have no problems at all. My period is not only completely non-painful, it's also less violent, and lasts a day or two less (before, it really got on my nerves wearing pads 7 or 8 days, now it's down to 6 or 5). I've also been experimenting a bit and I noticed that eating a lot of fruit in days before my period completely removes any possible problem of my period, even the actual awareness that I got it. Again, it depends on the person. As is the rest of it; some people are just not for it. I can name a few people I know who would never be able to live without meat, and most probably for a good reason. Once, I thought I'd never be able too, but then I tried (I really had nothing to lose, my health literally could not have gotten worse at that point) and I started feeling better. I didn't switch over night, it was gradual, and I gradually realized that I need less and less meat until one day I abandoned it and never picked it up again. Now, I am careful and I still eat fish and eggs for example, they are good for some things that I do not get from meat (eggs for vitamin B12 for example).

I'm aware of the normal slaughterhouses, thankfully, not all are horrible. But the horrible ones exist, even outside religious ones. No one can know for sure how many of them are like that, so we can just throw assumptions at each other which really does nothing. It would be nice if farms could take over the slaughterhouse animals, because, whatever we say, I'm sure that living in an open field is better than anything else, but as I said numerous times, it's not an issue that will be solved quickly. However, raising the awareness and imposing laws that ensure humane treatment and humane death of those animals are generally making things better, even in slaughterhouses (like the one you described).

 

[Twilight_guy]

Good, I like it. Lots of people are vegetarians for other reasons though, such as not wanting to eat animals at all.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

From what I've seen in the UK, free range has become a class issue, with a feeling that only the paupers would buy cheap eggs and meat, free range being the bare minimum and full on organic being the ideal.

I have to admit the marketing has kind of worked, I do feel kinda bad if I'm having a tight week and have to get 6 'value' eggs instead of the free range ones.

Marcus Brigstocke made a controversial point about free range chickens, about people saying they can't afford ethically farmed meat, as they queue up with seven packs of Pringles in their trolley and 200 cigarettes.

I'm sure a lot of people can't afford to go organic or free range, but there's some who just don't want to and would rather get another bar of chocolate instead of supporting better treatment for the animals.

We can't force it, but we can push change along with a kind of mass peer pressure, same as seatbelts and smoking.

 

[robert01]

Here we go:

I am not a vegetarian.
Here is the problem with your logic:

Back in the day meat production facilities used to generally follow the guidelines that were put in place regarding the slaughtering of animals. And then the population boomed and demand shot through the fucking roof. In order to meet that demand of the grocers and butchers they had to start cutting a lot of fucking corners to meet the quotas, so for this you can thank all the fast food chains, etc that shove cheap meat down our throats.

There are places that sell meat that is grown in a ethical environment(free range, or claims it is), and it costs and arm and a fucking leg because they produce that much less meat than their counterparts. The space that it takes to raise 1 pig, you can raise 3 or 4. Instead of being ethical when you kill the pig, you can lead it outside and smash it over the head with a wrench of brick until it is dead, saves you the cost for slaughtering it. This is the behavior that we encouraged by eating so much mass produced meats, and it is a cycle that will never end.

 

[novixz]

They could free animals and release them to the wild.... IDK I'm tired. They could throw vegetables at meat processing plants.

Just to put up an argument with vegetarians, a farmer isn't going to do anything that is going to hurt his cattle, they get a fine, go to jail, all that stuff. Like if a farmer clips a chickens beak, it's not cruelty. It's to keep the chickens from killing each other, so one doesn't establish dominance and the weaker ones get beaten to death. Yeah they keep them in closed spacing that's because farming is expensive, and sometimes you just have to make due with what's you're given. Also it's against the law to do stuff like that. A certain number of cows need 1 to 2 acres to graze and grow up, if the farmer doesn't meet this standard, it is considered animal cruelty. Just imagine having to tell some convicts that you went to prison over the fact you didn't give a cow enough space. Unless that farmer wants to be somebody's ***** he'll do what's right for him and the animals.

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Yeah... Gotta control the animal population, anyway... And stop eating all the oxygen-making plants, goddammit!

Ugh, can people stop using this argument please?

There's a difference between hunting and raising an animal, and a difference between farming and gathering. Making/killing livestock in a farm/factory does nothing to the population of wildlife because the animals that die wouldn't have been born if it wasn't for the farmer. Same with raising plants; it's actually putting oxygen into the environment because those crops wouldn't have been there at all if the farmer hadn't planted them.

But you're just trying to be funny, and I'm being a buzzkill, so carry on if you must.

 

[lacktheknack]

It's a good idea.

But never eating meat is better.

I mean, it's not like millions of insects, rodents and other wildlife are killed every year by the machines that harvest our vegetables etc...

Well played. I wonder how PETA would respond to that?

 

[rabidmidget]

Well I think the best solution is to accept that 90% or more of the human race is omnivorous and won't stop eating meat anyway.

And biologically we're omnivorous scavengers anyways, so let's keep everything on the plate. We do have a pretty terrifying bite as well.

Almost right. Our ancestors were first herbivores, then scavengers. We are, in theory, hunters - our direct ancestors hunted animals, cooked and ate their meat. No scavenging unless dire circumstances emerged.

And while we're at biting - I heard from my professor that every human is strong enough to bite his own fingers off. The only things stopping us are fear of pain, pain itself, perspective of being crippled and above all, logic and reason. But in the face of mortal danger (like I dunno, a black widow bit the finger and poison is gonna spread, but you are 5 hours from any civilization...), it is possible.

Hmm, I need to go try something...

OT: I agree with the idea that it is more effective to buy free-range meat than to not eat meat at all as a form of protest, however that's assuming that's the only reason why vegetarians don't eat meat, many just personally don't like the idea of eating it themselves.

 

[lacktheknack]

Here we go:

I am not a vegetarian.
Here is the problem with your logic:

Back in the day meat production facilities used to generally follow the guidelines that were put in place regarding the slaughtering of animals. And then the population boomed and demand shot through the fucking roof. In order to meet that demand of the grocers and butchers they had to start cutting a lot of fucking corners to meet the quotas, so for this you can thank all the fast food chains, etc that shove cheap meat down our throats.

There are places that sell meat that is grown in a ethical environment(free range, or claims it is), and it costs and arm and a fucking leg because they produce that much less meat than their counterparts. The space that it takes to raise 1 pig, you can raise 3 or 4. Instead of being ethical when you kill the pig, you can lead it outside and smash it over the head with a wrench of brick until it is dead, saves you the cost for slaughtering it. This is the behavior that we encouraged by eating so much mass produced meats, and it is a cycle that will never end.

But his idea fixes this.

If we start shelling out for free range meats, we A. won't eat so much meat, and B. stop encouraging corner-cutting.

A reduction of demand based in ethics, if you will.

 

[Cheezeypoofs]

There are too many causes of vegetarianism for that one argument to cover, though it does work in that particular case.

Not sure if I have been ninja'd or not on this, but my argument whenever a vegetarian starts preaching to me that people were not meant to eat animals is that humans have a set of fully developed canines. No herbivore would have developed canines.

 

[Harlief]

I'm a vehement carnivore...

You eat only meat? That's not very healthy.
I think the word you're looking for is 'omnivore'.
The idea that eating meat makes you a carnivore comes from vegetarian and vegan propaganda. (I say propaganda because these pamphlets stretch or break the truth for a political purpose).

Ethically farmed meat is the way to go!

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

a lot of people think vegetarians are all protesting meat. while really its just most of them dont like meat.

 

[Chasing-The-Light]

I'm a vehement carnivore...

You eat only meat? That's not very healthy.
I think the word you're looking for is 'omnivore'.
The idea that eating meat makes you a carnivore comes from vegetarian and vegan propaganda. (I say propaganda because these pamphlets stretch or break the truth for a political purpose).

Ethically farmed meat is the way to go!

Meat and potatoes! >: | LIKE A REAL MAN! ... Even though I'm not a man....... XD Yes, omnivore was probably what I was looking for... my bad.

 

[Abedeus]

Oh don't be so sensitive, they're doing it for your own good. Meat is delicious and they just want to share it with you. You can go to meat heaven too, but you have to let Bacon Christ into your heart.

Like, specifically, you have to let him clog up your aorta.

This is my favorite quote of the entire thread, (so far). You seem like a very intelligent person. Now I wish I had something equally clever and humorous to add myself, but sadly I lack any strong feelings one way or the other. So I'll simply add: Kudos.

We are, in theory, hunters - our direct ancestors hunted animals, cooked and ate their meat. No scavenging unless dire circumstances emerged

I have to wonder what you mean here. Humans were scavengers before they ever were hunters. Even the most basic (and incredible) form of hunting, Persistence Hunting, still required a spear. We were scavengers for so long in fact that fresh red meat actually tastes bad to us even today. Which is why butchers will age meat on a hook anywhere from 3 days to three weeks. And I don't think our ancestors would have passed on a corpse if they found one, even after hunting came into common practice. If you just meant we're capable of more than scavenging that I understand.

Our first meat-eating ancestors were scavengers. Scavengers don't hunt, they eat what other animals leave. Hunters hunt fresh meat. That's the basic difference...

Oh, and why didn't they hunt? No actual society, where some members hunt, others cook and some guards the people. And tools not sharp enough to kill.

 

[idodo35]

I hear all the time that people are vegetarians because they are protesting cruel factory farming and similar practices.

well some people turn vegi because they dont like the idea of harming animals to something like food i have a friend who is vegan (meaning she doesnt eat anything that came from animals including eggs milk honny etc
she says that the human body is not a predators body we can infact live (and even be healthier) without meat and outher products from animals since we have the tecnology to make replacements for those things there is no reason (in her opinion) for any of us to eat meat...
(and now im going to a bbq lol) (seriosly thou i am going to a bbq in like 10 mins XD)

 

[Ghengis John]

Our first meat-eating ancestors were scavengers. Scavengers don't hunt, they eat what other animals leave. Hunters hunt fresh meat. That's the basic difference...

We kept right on scavenging as modern humans. Archeologists will tell you that at one time there were only two animals that could crack open a large bone to get at the marrow inside. Hyenas, and Humans. The proof that we were scavenging is all over the bones. For that matter there are plenty of animals who will hunt AND scavenge. the fore mentioned hyenas might come to mind. Even a lion will scavenge a corpse. I don't know who told you it was mutually exclusive, especially in an opportunistic species like ours.

For that matter what's with this emphasis on "fresh meat"?

 

[Brutal Peanut]

I buy free-range organic red meats for my Husband. He chose the brand when we were shopping because buying it supports ranchers like his step-dad, and doesn't want to eat anything else. He claims he can tell the difference. He used to live and work on a cattle ranch in Montana. He says the cows they raise are nearly wild. They just wonder around the massive property and are never kept inside a building. Not very social, not even close to domesticated. Their meat is supposedly exceptionally delicious. They are the kind of people who eat red meat every day. I agree with it.

However, I don't eat much red meat AT ALL - and when I tried some recently, it churned my stomach. Not because of the texture, but because of the smell. If you haven't eaten red meat in a long time then you get a burger, it has a certain smell to it. It just smelled like blood to me. But that is mostly just the smell I get from burgers. Maybe it was just because it was a fast-food burger? I rarely eat fast-food. I tend to eat pink Alaskan salmon, 'dolphin-free' tuna, (both canned) and baked or grilled chicken. All 'organic' or 'free-ranged'. But only once or twice a week, so I'm not paying out the ass for it on daily or weekly basis. I'm technically a omnivore, but mostly just eat greens, nuts, fruits and vegetables (I also grow my own), and of course vegetables mashed up and formed into a patty shape for easy sandwich-like nomification.

My husband laughs at me, calls me a hippie. Asks if I am going to start hugging trees and dancing under the moonlight with tambourines or something - and then graduate to blowing up animal research labs. He thinks he is so witty. Well, I guess that's what a young woman from Southern California gets for marrying a rancher from nowhere-cowpie, Montana. =D

 

[Abedeus]

Our first meat-eating ancestors were scavengers. Scavengers don't hunt, they eat what other animals leave. Hunters hunt fresh meat. That's the basic difference...

We kept right on scavenging as modern humans. Archeologists will tell you that at one time there were only two animals that could crack open a large bone to get at the marrow inside. Hyenas, and Humans. The proof that we were scavenging is all over the bones. For that matter there are plenty of animals who will hunt AND scavenge. the fore mentioned hyenas might come to mind. Even a lion will scavenge a corpse. I don't know who told you it was mutually exclusive, especially in an opportunistic species like ours.

For that matter what's with this emphasis on "fresh meat"?

Except SCAVENGER means he primarily SCAVENGES. If someone has spears, bows and fire, he HUNTS. He resorts to SCAVENGING only when he can't hunt anything good. Fresh meat always tastes better and you usually have more of it - scavenging is scrap food.

Also, emphasis on fresh meat because you can't hunt dead meat. That's called scavenging.

About hyenas - they can hunt. But they are too cowardly to do it, unless they outnumber the prey or it's weak, old or very young. That's why they are considered the dead-eaters, because they don't hunt like lions or crocodiles.

 

[Ghengis John]

Fresh meat always tastes better and you usually have more of it - scavenging is scrap food.

Wow. That would be why the most expensive steaks are the ones that have been aged the longest right? Because the fresher meat is the better it tastes? Have you ever actually eaten something that was just killed? I mean a mammal. Most people actually think that they taste terrible. You seem to think it's some matter of pride though with your fixation on scavenging's inferiority so I doubt you're going to listen to reason. I dunno, maybe you're a hunter yourself, it kinda seems like you take pride in the fact that your ancestors hunted. In any event I doubt this will go anywhere productive. Sufficed to say it was never my intention to wind up in an argument I only wanted a clarification of what you meant and I understand clearly enough where you were coming from now.