A bit of deep thought for ya

[PurpleRain]

This is just a little something I've been thinking up. While it really warrents no direct discussion, I would like to see some arguments raised or some more points expanded to get a more fixed idea on what's going on in my head.

An animal born without eyes or any idea of sight, how would it understand light? It could not comprehend light or the spectrum or colours.
So why are we only limited to five senses? That can't be all of them? There's more. I find it kind of close-minded to think otherwise.

Logic can only prove things that are in the physical plane of existence. How do we know that we have more senses, or souls? To even think about it, you NEED to leave logic behind. Those that cling to it are too scared and want the shelter of something safe and familiar.

So how is it that people want to disprove god? You can disprove religion but not god. I find religion only helps to serve us. I find it is different to god. Religion, whether helpful or not, is something we made up for an understanding of the universe, faith, spiritual meaning. Seeing as it was written by the hand of man, it is a physical thing making it exist where logic rules. Thus Religion has to fight with logic and seeing as we as a race have excelled terrifically at logic and science, we find it too easy to disprove and prove things.
But you can't deny a presents of something great and amazing that lives on planes without logic. This is why I don't see god as any physical being, because something as great as that, and to live on every level of existence, to feel more than five senses, and to obtain more emotion, it can't be logical. Perhaps its physical side it us (animals, planets, rocks, planets, space dust, atoms, etc) but... yeah. It defies logic that if witnessing it, it would destroy people's minds. We're too dependent on this logic we have.

 

[Toners]

If you know much about recent physics theories, think about senses in terms of the Higgs Field... I thought about it when they taught me it in A-Level physics and my brain nearly overloaded O.O
A pause for thought, mass is only a perception, and doesn't really exist, it's only caused by interactions with the Higgs Field... (brain dies)
EDIT: if particle physics is anything to go by. They built something worth 6 billion euros to try and justify it. Aww, bless

 

[xitel]

So why are we only limited to five senses? That can't be all of them? There's more. I find it kind of close-minded to think otherwise.

To be fair, there's actually 7 senses. People forget the sense of vertigo, or how up you are, and your sense of balance.

 

[iJosh]

Which 'god' are you talking about in the first place?

But yea, you can't really prove or disprove them because there are no actual evidence. Priests don't count. They just read and talk out of bibles.

 

[PurpleRain]

...because it is my right.

So, because it is your right to think, god doesn't exist?

Also, let me sum it up, I mean god as a devine creature that may or may not have made us and may or may not care. Just something really really big.

Which 'god' are you talking about in the first place?

But yea, you can't really prove or disprove them because there are no actual evidence. Priests don't count. They just read and talk out of bibles.

I'm also not talking about religion nor Christianity when I talk god. God doesn't have to mean a big man with a fluffy beard in the sky.

 

[Anachronism]

We're too dependent on this logic we have.

I actually had an argument with a friend about this sort of thing a few weeks ago. He was arguing that you should make all your decisions logically; I argued that, in a lot of cases, it's simply impossible to do so. Logic is nothing without emotion; you need to use emotion to make the most important decisions in life.

Since this is essentially a philosophical discussion, you can't use logic in philosophy; it doesn't work like that. Things like faith, love, friendship: none of these things have any logical basis, and yet everyone experiences them to some degree or another. Logic is no bad thing, and being able to detach yourself from a situation and think logically about it will greatly benefit you, but there are situations where it's impossible to do this.

You can't think about love logically, unless you go for the ridiculously cynical interpretation of "it's all caused by chemicals and hormones". This may be technically true, but I hate it as an interpretation nonetheless, because, in my opinion, love is something that defies logic. Logically, we should have two goals in life: keep ourselves alive, and reproduce. Love may help us achieve the second, but it's not the reason we fall in love. Again, while I would argue that all humans need love to survive (I'm really starting to sound like a hippy now, aren't I?), there's no logical explanation for us needing it. So, if everything is logical, why do we fall in love? What use do we have for it?

Religion, and a belief in God is much the same. You can neither prove nor disprove it, and obviously, many people appear to need religion in their lives. There is no logical way of explaining this. And I agree with you in that I don't believe in an anthropormorphic God: I believe there is a higher power out there somewhere, because I don't believe the Earth could have been created by coincidence.

Like you said, a lot of the more important things in life defy logic; we can't base our decisions solely on it; because if we do, and we come across something that logic can't explain, what do we do then?

 

[Labyrinth]

We, as humans, cannot comprehend anything outside of our 4 dimensions (I'm including time in this.) As such we try to rationalise every occurrence we see within it with a very limited system. It's like trying to play Crisis in two-bit. If there is a god, it's surely using quad-core although it may not be sentient enough to realise.

Fuck it, I'm going back to Pong.

Beep. Boop. Beep. Boop.

Additionally, while people may search for there to be a god, it may well be a futile attempt to find something less depressing than human existence. Good luck.

 

[fletch_talon]

So basically you're saying that you can't prove God does/doesn't exist so why do people try?

That's hardly anything original, I consider myself agnostic and that's been my position for years. Both sides are stupid because they both claim to be right.
The only way to be right in an argument about the existence of God is to accept that you can't prove anything either way and be done with it. Or at least acknowledge that your beliefs are just that, beliefs.

 

[Lullabye]

Hokay then. uhmmmm....first i hope you realize that you cannot have conscious thought without logic. Animals are stupid, but they are logical.
Any who, "But you can't deny a presents of something great and amazing that lives on planes without logic."
uh, yes i can. You see Purple, there is no real point to anything. Because of that anything can happen. So yes it is very possible and even likely that everything wasn't created. It just happened. The whole god argument isn't actually that deep. You said it yourself "I find religion only helps to serve us"
Now you said that god and religion are 2 different things. Which is true, but so is science and logic. But you can't have one without the other. In exception of course, to atheist religions, but they've never had to kill in the name of some imaginary being. SO heres a bit of logic for ya that will do nothing but better this world.
Fuck religion. All of it. WE don't need it. If there is a god(however unlikely) it hasn't shown itself(not counting obviously the chosen few who see him in a pretzel) so is therefore of no consequence. Omnipotent deities are out of our control and comprehension. So i say we all stop time wasting worship. And learn everything we can about this universe and life and existence. Then when thats said and done and we are all nothing but clouds of floating energy and immortal, then, if we haven't already, we can find god, and the ultimate meaning.
(oh and this is something else I've need to get off my chest. When religious individuals use the argument,"...how can something so beautiful have come to exist if not by god?" They seem to forget the point of evolution. See we evolved so that we would interpret the world and other things as "beautiful". I mean, its not very good for survival if you think of everything you see as ugly. We evolved to match the world, not the other way around.

 

[PurpleRain]

You can't think about love logically, unless you go for the ridiculously cynical interpretation of "it's all caused by chemicals and hormones". This may be technically true, but I hate it as an interpretation nonetheless, because, in my opinion, love is something that defies logic. Logically, we should have two goals in life: keep ourselves alive, and reproduce. Love may help us achieve the second, but it's not the reason we fall in love. Again, while I would argue that all humans need love to survive (I'm really starting to sound like a hippy now, aren't I?), there's no logical explanation for us needing it. So, if everything is logical, why do we fall in love? What use do we have for it?

Of course. While I was originally going to talk about logic in love IS just brain chemicals, but, if it all were just animal instincts and what not, then why do we connect with one mate and feel their pain and love, and want to learn and be close to them? If it were chemicals, wouldn't we be more animal and only have sex with with the people we deem suitable for our young, straight off the street.

We, as humans, cannot comprehend anything outside of our 4 dimensions (I'm including time in this.) As such we try to rationalise every occurrence we see within it with a very limited system. It's like trying to play Crisis in two-bit. If there is a god, it's surely using quad-core although it may not be sentient enough to realise.

Fuck it, I'm going back to Pong.

The Escapist. Bringing gaming into all walks of life.

So basically you're saying that you can't prove God does/doesn't exist so why do people try?

That's hardly anything original, I consider myself agnostic and that's been my position for years. Both sides are stupid because they both claim to be right.
The only way to be right in an argument about the existence of God is to accept that you can't prove anything either way and be done with it. Or at least acknowledge that your beliefs are just that, beliefs.

No, I'm saying is that it may not exist in any logical sense. Plus you're looking too hard into this as a religious side: they both claim to be right. I'm not religious, but I believe in some form of god.

 

[Whiskyjakk]

I'd agree with you. God is outside of the realm of logic because you can never disprove the existence of an all powerful being. If you accept that God can break the laws of nature and conceivability due to his/her omnipotence then God could also exist in spite of any logical contradictions inherant in the concept of God.

Personally I agree with Isaac Asimov "Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time."

 

[Caimekaze]

So why are we only limited to five senses? That can't be all of them? There's more. I find it kind of close-minded to think otherwise.

To be fair, there's actually 7 senses. People forget the sense of vertigo, or how up you are, and your sense of balance.

More, actually. While the number itself hasn't been decided on due to debate over what constitutes a sense, the agreed minimum number is nine: touch, taste, sight, hearing, smell, equilibrioception, proprioception, nocioception and thermoception.

 

[Lullabye]

So basically you're saying that you can't prove God does/doesn't exist so why do people try?

That's hardly anything original, I consider myself agnostic and that's been my position for years. Both sides are stupid because they both claim to be right.
The only way to be right in an argument about the existence of God is to accept that you can't prove anything either way and be done with it. Or at least acknowledge that your beliefs are just that, beliefs.

you sir are the stupid one, yet are so right. You see, there is one right side, therefore one of them isn't stupid. But yes, until they can prove it then they are simply 'beliefs'.

 

[Lullabye]

I'd agree with you. God is outside of the realm of logic because you can never disprove the existence of an all powerful being. If you accept that God can break the laws of nature and conceivabily due to his/her omnipotence then God could also exist in spite of any logical contradictions inherant in the concept of God.

Then his existence or lack thereof is of absolutely no consequence to us and if it decides to fuck us over then there is nothing to be done. Hence the term 'God'. So why even care?

 

[sky14kemea]

im all for ditching logic XD

also i actually believe the soul exists, but the possibility of more senses? im open to it, but i cant think of what they would be

 

[dmase]

This ia a thought not a good one but... more of a question on what you think. If you flip a coin to determine what you do in a circumstance the way the coin falls is that your god's almighty powers or a physical process that can only be explained by probability.... or somethin.

 

[Anachronism]

Of course. While I was originally going to talk about logic in love IS just brain chemicals, but, if it all were just animal instincts and what not, then why do we connect with one mate and feel their pain and love, and want to learn and be close to them? If it were chemicals, wouldn't we be more animal and only have sex with with the people we deem suitable for our young, straight off the street.

Exactly. Depressingly, the same friend I was arguing with about emotion/logic also believes that love doesn't really exist and Man should be more like an animal. I really, really hate that viewpoint, because if that's the case, forget about being in love with someone; why do we connect with people at all? If Man is just an animal, why do we make friends? Why do we need company? Love and friendship are very similar things, both of which are crucial to our survival (in my opinion, at least). Neither of them can be explained by logic, so you can't use logic to explain everything: you have to rely on your own emotions.

I am really starting to sound like a hippy now, but I don't care!

NB: I realise I'm getting a little off the subject of whether God can be explained logically or not, but I interpreted this as a discussion of logic in our lives in general. Apologies if I was wrong.

 

[Whiskyjakk]

I'd agree with you. God is outside of the realm of logic because you can never disprove the existence of an all powerful being. If you accept that God can break the laws of nature and conceivabily due to his/her omnipotence then God could also exist in spite of any logical contradictions inherant in the concept of God.

Then his existence or lack thereof is of absolutely no consequence to us and if it decides to fuck us over then there is nothing to be done. Hence the term 'God'. So why even care?

Sorry, I edited after you quoted. Basically I don't - hence the pragmatic atheism.

 

[PurpleRain]

Hokay then. uhmmmm....first i hope you realize that you cannot have conscious thought without logic. Animals are stupid, but they are logical.
Any who, "But you can't deny a presents of something great and amazing that lives on planes without logic."
uh, yes i can. You see Purple, there is no real point to anything. Because of that anything can happen. So yes it is very possible and even likely that everything wasn't created. It just happened. The whole god argument isn't actually that deep. You said it yourself "I find religion only helps to serve us"
Now you said that god and religion are 2 different things. Which is true, but so is science and logic. But you can't have one without the other. In exception of course, to atheist religions, but they've never had to kill in the name of some imaginary being. SO heres a bit of logic for ya that will do nothing but better this world.
Fuck religion. All of it. WE don't need it. If there is a god(however unlikely) it hasn't shown itself(not counting obviously the chosen few who see him in a pretzel) so is therefore of no consequence. Omnipotent deities are out of our control and comprehension. So i say we all stop time wasting worship. And learn everything we can about this universe and life and existence. Then when thats said and done and we are all nothing but clouds of floating energy and immortal, then, if we haven't already, we can find god, and the ultimate meaning.
(oh and this is something else I've need to get off my chest. When religious individuals use the argument,"...how can something so beautiful have come to exist if not by god?" They seem to forget the point of evolution. See we evolved so that we would interpret the world and other things as "beautiful". I mean, its not very good for survival if you think of everything you see as ugly. We evolved to match the world, not the other way around.

I see what you're getting at, but so many things you say can go passed you and so much deeper to the point I'm not sure. Aka, your last statment on art and beauty.

You're right by understanding that I feel as if religion andgod are two seperate things, but why so quick to down religion? It's a way of thinking incorporated to help people. Sometimes it really doesn't but to individuals, it can get them through life. From Taoists to Judaism, they are all ways of faith and belief. It may not apply to you, and like I said, can disprove a lot of it with logic, but it still can help people.