~shrugs~
meh....believe in what you like i don't see why people should justify what they believe in ..
meh....believe in what you like i don't see why people should justify what they believe in ..
A bit of deep thought for ya
- Thread starter PurpleRain
- Start date
Ah right, my bad - My current opinion is that if it gets any muggier my brain will cease to function outright! But I saw the word God spouted about a few times and something about Physics, so I thought I would chip in...I shall doff my hat and bid ado!
yeah, like I said, absolutely mind-boggling and stupidly hard to explain. That was the best I could do to explain it without going into quarks, neutrinos and all that bumpf.PurpleRain said:Toners said:well the Higgs Field is quite difficult to explain, and i haven't done this for a year, but...
Basically from what I understand, all the elemental particles (i.e. particles that can't be split down any further) don't have mass. The theory is that when these particles interact with the Higgs Field, they are slowed down from the speed of light and as such gain mass from the theory of relativity equation. This causes "existence" as we know it, supposedly. Basically, mass is an effect of the slowing down of elemental particles... at least I think that's what it is. The best way to visualise this is to imagine yourself in a swimming pool. If you stood completely still (i.e. particles inside you not vibrating, temperature at absolute zero) you would cease to exist. Since you are moving inside this field, particles travelling between infinitely small layers of Higgs Bosons (like yourself in comparison to the water molecules in the pool) will have the mass attribute.
If anyone has a better explanation without referring to an outside source, please call bullshit on me and put something better up, but not a massive splurge of scientific jargon, please
I've heard a bit about absolute zero (and by that I mean, it was on TV and I was semi destracted by staring longingly into a girls eyes, BUT-) and so what you're saying, is that if we do achieve that, and stop the particles from vibrating, without mass they... I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN! My words trip and fail to create the doings in my head. I am very interested though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_mechanism <--- This is how Wikipedia describes it... And while I understand that mostly, the theory is still a bit... whaaa? Like literally, consider a digestive system or the production of sexual gametes when seeing this theory. Chemical reactions when looking at the Higgs Mechanism is a statistical friggin' nightmare!
EDIT: it's like those Chinese wiseman puzzles. You understand the concept, but the thought behind it can leave you wondering about it for the rest of your life
Woah! Those are some strong acusations you're setting up. Firstly, just for the sake of understanding, you mind editing your posts slightly so I can tell what points you are talking about (I mean, like rearanging quotes and deleting stuff. The general mash up).Lullabye said:
Anyway:
1. Why would you kill for a god? That doesn't make sense. Re read my OP. I'm not actually talking about religion nor the christian version of god. I'm talking about logic and inhuman lack of it we need to explain the universe and sheer brilliance of it. I don't see why you are talking about god's bidding when this has nothing to do about what I am talking about.
Plus it's ver malevolent to hold yourself back from killing people because that would deny you sex. Do you view sex as an interaction, emotion, something interlectual?
2. Nothing. Nothing at all. Read above. You're bringing points from no where. I'm actually saying we know so little about god it has no matter in our regular lives.
3. Saying "So no, you dont have a right to your own opinions and beliefs" is in itself an opinion.
Because it evolves the way we think and understand.sorry user name taken. said:
Re read the OP. I don't talk about Christianity.Moccamonster said:
No stay! You may learn something. I am.Sheepzor said:
Interesting. I love in-depth debates about the meaning of life, God, the universe and such. Just because they are totally pointless.
When there is a discussion like this, I like to point people to this article: Embrace The Horror!
Don't get fooled, that it's on a humor site, that article is fucked up to the point I started to think I'm crazy. Maybe it's just me, but read it and decide for yourselves...
When there is a discussion like this, I like to point people to this article: Embrace The Horror!
Don't get fooled, that it's on a humor site, that article is fucked up to the point I started to think I'm crazy. Maybe it's just me, but read it and decide for yourselves...
You didn't read the OP did you? I'm saying that god doesn't live in a physical world, and so defies what logic we have. You sort of proved my point in a way.LimaBravo said:
What are you talking about? There are way more than five senses you know, there's a sense of pride You have deep down inside when you practice a sense of fair play. There are dollars and cents that you pay at a toll or the census man who is taking a poll, and a sense of confusion.
There's a sense of humor, A sense of doom, or A sense of awe, sense of timing. The sense of a word,There's incense And horse sense And common sense, it's true. Sense of wonder, sense of beauty, Sense of honor, sense of duty, A sense of doubt, a sense of danger, A sense of fear, when you meet a stranger, A sense of style, a sense of worth, A sense of direction for knowing the earth.
There's a sense of humor, A sense of doom, or A sense of awe, sense of timing. The sense of a word,There's incense And horse sense And common sense, it's true. Sense of wonder, sense of beauty, Sense of honor, sense of duty, A sense of doubt, a sense of danger, A sense of fear, when you meet a stranger, A sense of style, a sense of worth, A sense of direction for knowing the earth.
Not exactly as I understand agnosticism. I personally think it this way: I think that we can never have definitive proof or evidence for or against the existance of an all-powerful god. Therefore, any claim, stance or guess we make of such a being is by necessity based on faith or lack of faith. Thus I'm Agnostic: We can never truly know for certain.Anachronism said:
Atheist: I personally find in myself no belief for any god. OR in other words, I lack faith. Since no evidence has been, and as I believe can never be, presented I see no reason to worship or believe such a being as portrayed by the different definitions of god(s). Therefore I'm an Atheist, (if you can define someone by something they don't accept).
I agree with Rain on this one; there are plenty of things you can't explain by logic. Continuing with the theme of my previous posts, how do you explain love and friendship by logic? I won't go into the reasons why I'd argue you can't, because I'd just be repeating myself.PurpleRain said:
I'm interested to hear your point of view, SakSak, but I just don't see how everything can be explained by logic. Religion, for instance. How do you logically explain a belief in a higher power when there has been no tangible evidence for its existence?[/quote]
The point is, in my example the logical chain was complete and without fault. Assuming the premises, the conclusion follows.
That's what seems to be the misunderstanding here. By logic itself you cannot prove anything about the real world. All you can get with logic and philosophy is 'I think, therefore I am' before you have to make assumptions. And logic cannot be used to determine the validity of those assumptions. You need something else to test them with, usually our senses and some kind of physical evidence.
One of my assumptions is that the universe as mostly correctly presented by my senses is in fact real and by examining it I can make predictions of it. In essence, I assume that the 'Matrix-scenario' is untrue.
And regarding belief in a higher power... Well, hopefully I've clarified my stance in the issue, but faith and belief are no problems. You see, to have faith, to believe something, has no bearing to the actual existance of the object of said faith/belief. One look at the patients at the closest mental hospital provides evidence for this statement. So you can have faith without the object of faith actually existing. But if this is the case with any of the millions of gods we have worshipped during the history of humanity, I personally think it can never be truly known - as I already stated.
Love and friendship... Illogical? Perhaps, emotions tend the clash with logics, but both are the product of the same: A sufficiently evolved mind. Emotions and the ability to inductively reason and remember and conjure up different scenarios in our mind is all a product of brain chemistry. Humans are by no means the only animal on this planet to have such concepts as frienship, hate or love, even if we likely are the only one capable of communicating such concepts so clearly.
So for me, emotions and logic are the two sides of the same coin. They are two different facets of exactly the same. To completely deny the other is utter foolishness. Emotion to temper logic, logic to calm down the emotions. Mind you, I'm no psychologist or anything of the like, but that is my current view.
I'll stay the hell away from the god/religion arguements, i've done those waaaaay too many times already, its a phase to grow out of. But other than that;
Yeah there are more than 5 senses, we have around 26. But i understad your arguement, however as said animal with no eyes will never comprehend light, it for it to try would be foolish and would only lead to the wrong conclusions. The same thing applies across the board. One must acccept that biologically we have limitations we cant surpass.
The mind is a strange thing... Oh yeah, where was i.. Umm, oh yeah, transcending logic to find truth is a folly, perhaps sometimes it can be right, but the vast majority of times there is no 'truth' to be found in madness.
Yeah there are more than 5 senses, we have around 26. But i understad your arguement, however as said animal with no eyes will never comprehend light, it for it to try would be foolish and would only lead to the wrong conclusions. The same thing applies across the board. One must acccept that biologically we have limitations we cant surpass.
The mind is a strange thing... Oh yeah, where was i.. Umm, oh yeah, transcending logic to find truth is a folly, perhaps sometimes it can be right, but the vast majority of times there is no 'truth' to be found in madness.
I have been thinking about these same or similar things for a long time now, and whilst i have come no where near any conclusions, i have come with some interesting thoughts or questions. To start off with, the old 'what is after this', heaven?, hell? But even further in depth, what happens to this consciousness. We feel, we see, but furthermore, we think. This is all good if there's a heaven and hell, but if there isn't what happens? we diverse into nothing? what is nothing? how can we think about what nothing is if nothing is nothing. Even when in nothing we won't know it because it is nothing so we will not be there. We can't comprehend not having a conscience, no memories, no thoughts.. It drives my head into such madness and into the realization that heaven and hell were probably created by man so we would not HAVE to think about something we can't.
Another one which might have SOME explanation is that we undoubtably think with some sort of voice in our heads (not the voices that some of us hear, the ones we think with -.-). So what creates this voice? if our brain uses neurones and nerves in order for us to do and think, what parts is it exactly that create this voice? which of course stems off into other things like how we think as we do in a whole.. but i found it an interesting thought amongst other thoughts at the end of a maths exam where i had nothing better to do than sleep
Though what you read may not be perceived as what i meant, these things are almost harder to explain than they are to understand.
Oh and i'm loving the user name btw, kind of fits, deep meaningful thoughts and topics and 'purple rain' =]
Another one which might have SOME explanation is that we undoubtably think with some sort of voice in our heads (not the voices that some of us hear, the ones we think with -.-). So what creates this voice? if our brain uses neurones and nerves in order for us to do and think, what parts is it exactly that create this voice? which of course stems off into other things like how we think as we do in a whole.. but i found it an interesting thought amongst other thoughts at the end of a maths exam where i had nothing better to do than sleep
Though what you read may not be perceived as what i meant, these things are almost harder to explain than they are to understand.
Oh and i'm loving the user name btw, kind of fits, deep meaningful thoughts and topics and 'purple rain' =]
Yes, i know, but not having read the Q'uran or any other religious book, i cannot judge about them.PurpleRain said:
But my point is, believing in God, as both an individual person, alencumbering force or whatever, you cannot simply defy logic and state that there can be a plane without logic.
When something does not add up, you don't try to reason with yourself that it must be something beyond logic.
So in short, it's easier to believe in logic, with logical deduction, connections etc, then believing in an undefined force that somehow exists for no reason at all.
Believing in God, in any way, shape, or form, is neither right nor wrong, since neither side can be (dis)proven in any way.
I simply do not believe in any God, since it would not make sense for now. If God, as a person, would see so much pain, and so much disbelief, wouldn't he descend to Earth and fix all that shit? How can he bear to send all those people to hell to burn for all eternity?
This all adds up to make religion bullshit, and makes the concept of God all the more questionable.
Having God as some vaguely defined force makes as much sense as in saying 42 is the answer to everything, in that it could be true, and be bullshit at the same time.
Final words, stop thinking about it. Don't waste your life searching for this.
Again, you have proved my point. You have stated that you view the universe to how your sense and physical evidence. I have said, this is where logic dwells. It ends here too. I'm talking things beyond our senses and physical planes. Logic no longer applies.SakSak said:
I see what you mean and agree. While I was mostly talking out of metaphor, we can expain this. Perhaps love and friendship is like the vibrations of noise or a blind man using other senses to guide him. Perhaps emotions are bigger then how we see them. They are the small reverbes we pick up.Kukul said:
Okay, now I feel you're ignoring what I was saying and sort of proving it. I said scared people cling to logic as it has bounds and is safe.Moccamonster said:
The universe is boundless. Why should logic apply to everything on every plane of existance passed that of physical?
I'm not talking just god either (and you have some fixation that I mean white bearded man that made humans out of clay) I'm talking everything.
I will waste my life on this for it seems to build me as a character, my soul and my mind.
Good words that I also sometimes think about. I generally believe that we shed our physical selves and perhaps come to an understanding of these other planes we cannot compriehend with our eyes or ears. These are physical things our body parts, and can only pick up other physical things.freakaknight said:
That or we just die. But even then, nothing is a tricky thing to comprehend.
Also thanks about the name even though I hate the song.
Damn, double post!
Don't debate existance, reality, religion or anything concerning related topics.
I actually know the answers to these things.
None of you do.
I don't know EVERYTHING but I know what's what.
There is no god.
No afterlife.
No man but I can say without doubt that there is absolutely no god, no fate and no course of action but that we manifest.
Nobody can disprove or prove god, some may deeply beleive they are right, but everyone is wrong, the athiests and agnostics are much closer to the truth, but they are wrong.
All you people are doing is taking guesses
I know the truth
None of you do
So shut up and get on with your lives
http://steamcommunity.com/id/IAMZEEP
I actually know the answers to these things.
None of you do.
I don't know EVERYTHING but I know what's what.
There is no god.
No afterlife.
No man but I can say without doubt that there is absolutely no god, no fate and no course of action but that we manifest.
Nobody can disprove or prove god, some may deeply beleive they are right, but everyone is wrong, the athiests and agnostics are much closer to the truth, but they are wrong.
All you people are doing is taking guesses
I know the truth
None of you do
So shut up and get on with your lives
http://steamcommunity.com/id/IAMZEEP