A few thoughts about January 6, 2021

SilentPony

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Didn't the guy on the zoom call say they'd continue in September?
He said if anything new comes to life they would consider doing more. And with the Secret Service now implicated in a cover up, new information will be pretty hard to come by.
And even with Steve Banon's guilty verdict, its a $200 fine and 30 days in jail, with a sentencing hearing set for October, so good chance the judge will declare him sentenced to time served and just void the 30 days, and probably the $200 too.
The Democrats and Court system really do no have the strength to prosecute and convict and sentence an entire generation worth of Republican leadership.
 

Agema

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So assuming this is the final meeting, which may or may not be true, my verdict of the Jan 6th investigation is...complete and utter waste of time.
Depends.

I would suggest a key objective of these hearings is simply to ensure Trump never sets foot in the White House again (except maybe as a tourist or guest). In that sense, just taking enough of a toll to scupper that shitweasel's chances of selection in 2024 is a job done - and there is evidence that it is hurting his popularity and so might stiffen the resolve of other Republicans to help shut him out.

It might be well short on what we'd ideally like, but it's better than nothing.
 

dreng3

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Depends.

I would suggest a key objective of these hearings is simply to ensure Trump never sets foot in the White House again (except maybe as a tourist or guest). In that sense, just taking enough of a toll to scupper that shitweasel's chances of selection in 2024 is a job done - and there is evidence that it is hurting his popularity and so might stiffen the resolve of other Republicans to help shut him out.

It might be well short on what we'd ideally like, but it's better than nothing.

Biden is in a pretty bad place and it isn't even midterms yet. I'd argue that unless the hearings place Trump in a position where he cannot run again they've been horribly mis-timed, and that would require Garland to get off his butt and do something, which seems unlikely.

With almost 2 years to go, a captured supreme court, and every senator and congressperson willing to sign off on the most horrible shit, I'd think that the Democrats are in for a rough one, maybe not in the midterms, but at least in 2024.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Biden is in a pretty bad place and it isn't even midterms yet. I'd argue that unless the hearings place Trump in a position where he cannot run again they've been horribly mis-timed, and that would require Garland to get off his butt and do something, which seems unlikely.
I'm expecting the Republicans to nix Trump, not the Democrats. All the Democrats - plus a few Republicans - need to do is shift enough percent of people against Trump. And that could be a very small number of people: just the right few percent can doom a presidential run. If Republicans realise another Trump run is likely to sink them in 2024, they'll make damn sure he won't be their candidate.

With almost 2 years to go, a captured supreme court, and every senator and congressperson willing to sign off on the most horrible shit, I'd think that the Democrats are in for a rough one, maybe not in the midterms, but at least in 2024.
The Democrats are fucked, bluntly. The Republicans made it clear years ago that their intention is to never let the Democrats do anything, and with the Senate and SCOTUS loaded towards them, they never will. Democratic voters need to learn that the limit of their realistic ambitions for the next couple of decades is stopping the Republicans running riot, rather than advancing an agenda of their own.
 

SilentPony

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With almost 2 years to go, a captured supreme court, and every senator and congressperson willing to sign off on the most horrible shit, I'd think that the Democrats are in for a rough one, maybe not in the midterms, but at least in 2024.
This is what I don't get about what Democrats are trying to do. Codify same sex marriage into law? Great idea! Just wish the Supreme Court wasn't the final say in what gets passed into law or not. Passing laws doesn't do shit if the courts can literally just strike it down the same day.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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This is what I don't get about what Democrats are trying to do. Codify same sex marriage into law? Great idea! Just wish the Supreme Court wasn't the final say in what gets passed into law or not. Passing laws doesn't do shit if the courts can literally just strike it down the same day.
There's value in making them do that instead of preemptively rolling over
 

SilentPony

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There's value in making them do that instead of preemptively rolling over
What? Like im not trying to be snarky. But Im legit confused. They struct down Roe, and they're on the court for life, and the Dems don't have the courage to stack the court or the votes to impeach. So what possible risk is there?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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What? Like im not trying to be snarky. But Im legit confused. They struct down Roe, and they're on the court for life, and the Dems don't have the courage to stack the court or the votes to impeach. So what possible risk is there?
The illusion of fighting for it. Fires up the base, makes the other-side out to be the bad guys in a definable way.

It's why the GOP tried repealing the ACA every two weeks when they knew Obama would veto it. Works great
 

dreng3

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What? Like im not trying to be snarky. But Im legit confused. They struct down Roe, and they're on the court for life, and the Dems don't have the courage to stack the court or the votes to impeach. So what possible risk is there?
It is useful to be able to point to all the times your political opponents have been assholes. Get the republicans on record as being against all the stuff people want, instead of having everything killed in a filibuster or not take the vote because it won't pass. Make the opponent own their shitty politics.
 

SilentPony

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It is useful to be able to point to all the times your political opponents have been assholes. Get the republicans on record as being against all the stuff people want, instead of having everything killed in a filibuster or not take the vote because it won't pass. Make the opponent own their shitty politics.
...they already are and have been for decades! Republicans have for my entire life been trying to overturn Roe and it worked. There's no backlash, no gasp of shitty politics. They wanted to overturn Roe, they were very clear about it, they overturned Roe, and now they want more. And the Democrats are still losing.
 

dreng3

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...they already are and have been for decades! Republicans have for my entire life been trying to overturn Roe and it worked. There's no backlash, no gasp of shitty politics. They wanted to overturn Roe, they were very clear about it, they overturned Roe, and now they want more. And the Democrats are still losing.
Sure, but having more material to hammer them with can't be a bad thing. Better to get caught trying to do some actual good.
 

SilentPony

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So now it seems the DoJ is conducting a criminal investigation into Trump in regards to the Jan 6th events. And all I can say is good fucking luck. Trump and his goons have stumbled upon the greatest legal defense in history - just say the investigation doesn't count. It worked for the Muller report, and all the sexual assault investigations into Trump. Just play an UNO skip-a-turn card when it comes time for charges and the justice system just forgives and forgets.
 

Silvanus

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So now it seems the DoJ is conducting a criminal investigation into Trump in regards to the Jan 6th events. And all I can say is good fucking luck. Trump and his goons have stumbled upon the greatest legal defense in history - just say the investigation doesn't count. It worked for the Muller report, and all the sexual assault investigations into Trump. Just play an UNO skip-a-turn card when it comes time for charges and the justice system just forgives and forgets.
It's not so much that, exactly; it's that it would be politically dangerous to find him guilty.

At this point, it almost doesn't matter whether he did break the law or not. If he did, and they correctly conclude as such, then they risk damaging the public perception of their organisation, or even provoking violence in or political recrimination, by saying so. It would cause so much instability and danger that they'll be safer to just say he didn't break the law.
 

SilentPony

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It's not so much that, exactly; it's that it would be politically dangerous to find him guilty.

At this point, it almost doesn't matter whether he did break the law or not. If he did, and they correctly conclude as such, then they risk damaging the public perception of their organization, or even provoking violence in or political recrimination, by saying so. It would cause so much instability and danger that they'll be safer to just say he didn't break the law.
See that's equally, if not more, dangerous. Once you allow for the idea Trump is above the law, what's next? Murdering his opponent during the debates? Well prosecuting him would be politically dangerous. What if he rapes a girl on live TV? Politically dangerous to do anything about it.
Once we get to the point that the threat of violence against Government officials is the prevailing strength in America, its over, there is no country. If the rule of violence wins over the rule of law, its mad max time.
 
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Silvanus

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See that's equally, if not more, dangerous. Once you allow for the idea Trump is above the law, what's next? Murdering his opponent during the debates? Well prosecuting him would be politically dangerous. What if he rapes a girl on live TV? Politically dangerous to do anything about it.
Once we get to the point that the threat of violence against Government officials is the prevailing strength in America, its over, there is no country. If the rule of violence wins over the rule of law, its mad max time.
Yes, It's extremely dangerous, agreed. That's the outcome sought by that those who stormed a state building, and denied valid election results, and barged their way into counts in order to "verify" them and intimidate state officials. As well as their facilitators in the Congressional Republican Party, who entertained these delusions they knew to be false, in order to court votes.

Because for all their talk of protecting democracy, they'll happily sacrifice it for a quick power grab.

The largest present threat to American democracy isn't quite the Republican Party... but it is a fanatic subset of voters with enormously outsized influence, and the ability to compel an intimidated response on a national level. Which the Republican Party is happy to indulge and court, and has no wish to disillusion. And honestly, when that devil's bargain goes a certain distance, there's not much distinction between the two groups from a practical standpoint, is there?
 
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thebobmaster

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See that's equally, if not more, dangerous. Once you allow for the idea Trump is above the law, what's next? Murdering his opponent during the debates? Well prosecuting him would be politically dangerous. What if he rapes a girl on live TV? Politically dangerous to do anything about it.
Once we get to the point that the threat of violence against Government officials is the prevailing strength in America, its over, there is no country. If the rule of violence wins over the rule of law, its mad max time.
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" Trump remarked at a campaign stop at Dordt College in Sioux Center, Iowa. "It's, like, incredible."

Say what you will about Trump, he wasn't wrong here.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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The largest present threat to American democracy isn't quite the Republican Party... but it is a fanatic subset of voters with enormously outsized influence, and the ability to compel an intimidated response on a national level. Which the Republican Party is happy to indulge and court, and has no wish to disillusion.
They also know that the moment they fall out of lockstep, they'll get a bayonet in the back, in the form of an organized and fervent effort to remove them from office for being a "RINO". (Just ask Liz Cheney.) Trump's penchant for only caring about what you've done for him in the last five minutes has been taken up by his adherents.
 

SilentPony

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They also know that the moment they fall out of lockstep, they'll get a bayonet in the back, in the form of an organized and fervent effort to remove them from office for being a "RINO". (Just ask Liz Cheney.) Trump's penchant for only caring about what you've done for him in the last five minutes has been taken up by his adherents.
Also most of his supporters are evangelical Christians, who are used to ideas of conspiracy theories, great battles of good vs evil, the end of the world, and a belief the United States is a white Christian nation. So shit like QAnon saying Trump is the chosen one to stop the evil Jewish child eating conspiracy and he will bring the second coming and return the US to God, they go "Oh good, like we learned in Sunday School"
These people are fundamentally broken and dangerous and they will follow Trump anywhere.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Numbnuts gets caught breaking the rules, says he was proving that the rules were broken and no one got caught:

 
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