A few thoughts about January 6, 2021

[Worgen]

I could buy this for the remainder of Biden's term. Not for her to automagically be the nominee of the party.

How... how are you so ill-informed? Shes not taking over for Biden, hes doing the rest of his term. He just removed himself from being the presumptive nominee for the 2024 election. She was also only the presumptive nominee, but after the convention, she became the nominee,.

Kamala Harris Officially Becomes The 2024 Democratic Presidential Nominee

Kamala Harris has officially secured the 2024 Democratic presidential nomination. Harris, who is now the first Black and Asian-American woman from a major party to secure the nomination, earned the historic feat with a majority vote from her party’s delegates, totaling at least 2,350, Yahoo...

www.yahoo.com

She got the majority votes from the party delegation. at least 2,350. Its not even the first time someone became a party nominee without winning a primary, the last time that happened was with Hubert Humphrey.

 

[Agema]

My point bringing it up: You too appear to be stating with that lack of direct evidence missing, that appears to be a proof of not guilty.

??? No, I am not. I'm stating that evidence of any sort should be good to secure a conviction. The evidence in this case was manifestly not good. I would put it to you the police picked up a bunch of ne'er-do-well children, leant on them very (and quite likely inappropriately) hard, and then the whole system rolled into place to make sure they went down in that atmosphere of public anger and fear, because it was more important justice be seen to be done than actually done.

What I'm getting at is that it does not demonstrate a good case for convictions on circumstantial evidence when circumstantial evidence achieved such a famous miscarriage of justice.

1. I got the opportunity to vote for Vivek, DeSantis, heck, even the monstrous Nikki Haley if I wanted to do so. The Democratic candidate was foisted upon her party. She didn't run in the primary. And they're saying they are pro-Democracy? A party can legally do this, and a precedent has been set but it isn't good for Democracy. Kamala seems to be doing well in the polls now, but the last time she actually had to face challengers in a primary? She got her butt waxed.

Imagine that Trump underwent a cognitive test in July after the primaries and it turned out he was in early stage dementia, so confidence in him crashed. It was too late to arrange a new vote before he needed to be certified. You would not bat an eyelid at the Republican Party "foisting" a new candidate from the top. Of course you wouldn't. You might regret it as not ideal, but you wouldn't be banding around terms like "undemocratic".

I could buy this for the remainder of Biden's term. Not for her to automagically be the nominee of the party.

4. But when I can vote for my party's nominee, and the other party, while arguing my party is anti-democratic, simply installs theirs, it is pretty dang hypocritical.

Firstly, in many countries all over the world, that's how governmental representatives and the party leader is elected... and they're still democracies.

Secondly, they are often selected because that's where the party donors' money is going, or (potentially even worse) money from special interest groups, or endorsements from other politicians. There are congresspeople and senators who are held in hate and contempt by their own electorate, but they keep their jobs because the party is dominant in that constituency, and the party machinery ensures they don't have serious challengers. That whole concept of party machinery kicks into action many electoral cycles for the president. Who, seriously, ran against Trump for Republican candidate in 2020? He was installed as Republican candidate with no meaningful challenger or choice offered. At best, some irrelevant no-mark threw his hat into the ring to grab some attention. (Same goes for Obama 2012 and GWB 2004.)

Candidate selection is not democracy.

 

[gorfias]

Yes, that certainly would have been better.

But he was too proud for that. He tried to hang on until it was obvious to everyone that he could not last another term. And that is Bidens fault, not the Democrats fault or Harris fault. Those have to make the best out of the very poorly timed retreat.

Isn't it his entourage's fault to though? I think a case for fraud could be made. They knew (as did our MSM) of his decline and lied to us. Their mouth pieces telling us, "this is the best Biden ever."

How... how are you so ill-informed? Shes not taking over for Biden, hes doing the rest of his term. He just removed himself from being the presumptive nominee for the 2024 election. She was also only the presumptive nominee, but after the convention, she became the nominee,.

Kamala Harris Officially Becomes The 2024 Democratic Presidential Nominee

Kamala Harris has officially secured the 2024 Democratic presidential nomination. Harris, who is now the first Black and Asian-American woman from a major party to secure the nomination, earned the historic feat with a majority vote from her party’s delegates, totaling at least 2,350, Yahoo...

www.yahoo.com

She got the majority votes from the party delegation. at least 2,350. Its not even the first time someone became a party nominee without winning a primary, the last time that happened was with Hubert Humphrey.

Harris was immolated in the 2020 primary. This process, however legal, allowed her the nomination without truly facing a primary where she would I think she would have been obliterated again. Really that simple. And something of a kick me sign on the back of democracy.

??? No, I am not. I'm stating that evidence of any sort should be good to secure a conviction. The evidence in this case was manifestly not good. I would put it to you the police picked up a bunch of ne'er-do-well children, leant on them very (and quite likely inappropriately) hard, and then the whole system rolled into place to make sure they went down in that atmosphere of public anger and fear, because it was more important justice be seen to be done than actually done.

What I'm getting at is that it does not demonstrate a good case for convictions on circumstantial evidence when circumstantial evidence achieved such a famous miscarriage of justice.

Emphasis added. That is one of the points I'm making. I've heard lies about the evidence that was used in the case (i.e. in a docudrama on Netflix, minor suspects are interviewed without their parents present: something denied by the investigating officers). But for the most part, rather than attack the evidence of the case, the big deal was made that there was no DNA proving the case. Again, the prosecution never said there was but relied upon other evidence.

Imagine that Trump underwent a cognitive test in July after the primaries and it turned out he was in early stage dementia, so confidence in him crashed. It was too late to arrange a new vote before he needed to be certified. You would not bat an eyelid at the Republican Party "foisting" a new candidate from the top. Of course you wouldn't. You might regret it as not ideal, but you wouldn't be banding around terms like "undemocratic".

I wouldn't be calling this all un-democratic had Biden suddenly died after the primary, with no time for another such primary. What are they supposed to do? But Biden was in serious and obvious decline and Harris et. al. lied about it and bided their time to replace him. We were told this is the "best Biden ever".

Firstly, in many countries all over the world, that's how governmental representatives and the party leader is elected... and they're still democracies.

Secondly, they are often selected because that's where the party donors' money is going, or (potentially even worse) money from special interest groups, or endorsements from other politicians. There are congresspeople and senators who are held in hate and contempt by their own electorate, but they keep their jobs because the party is dominant in that constituency, and the party machinery ensures they don't have serious challengers. That whole concept of party machinery kicks into action many electoral cycles for the president. Who, seriously, ran against Trump for Republican candidate in 2020? He was installed as Republican candidate with no meaningful challenger or choice offered. At best, some irrelevant no-mark threw his hat into the ring to grab some attention. (Same goes for Obama 2012 and GWB 2004.)

Candidate selection is not democracy.

I don't think there is any law even requiring a primary. What do Americans expect of their parties?
Had they not lied to us and had a proper primary, Kamala, had she run, would again, as in 2020, likely been soundly defeated. Instead, she is now the parties nominee.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I don't think there is any law even requiring a primary. What do Americans expect of their parties?
Had they not lied to us and had a proper primary, Kamala, had she run, would again, as in 2020, likely been soundly defeated. Instead, she is now the parties nominee.

What exactly do you think the point of a primary is, and why do you think parties run primaries? Do you think it's so that the majority of the electorate can pick the candidate they want in a popular vote? Nope.

It's so that the party can gauge which candidate they think has the best chance of winning a national election. Once they think they've figured that out the best candidate gets to become the nominee at the convention.

In this case the dems don't need to gauge support for other candidates, because they don't have time and they've already seen that Harris has generally good support in the run-up to the convention. There also haven't been any significant contenders presenting themselves as good alternatives for Harris. It's that simple.

You say that Harris would have been defeated had she run in the primary this time, but who would be running against her? Marianne Williamson and Dean Phillips, neither of who are serious candidates.

The people who voted for Biden in the primary were voting for him with the understanding that Harris would be replacing him if he died, became incapacitated, or otherwise unfit for office. This is literally what has happened and most dem voters are fine with it.

 

[Worgen]

Harris was immolated in the 2020 primary. This process, however legal, allowed her the nomination without truly facing a primary where she would I think she would have been obliterated again. Really that simple. And something of a kick me sign on the back of democracy.

You don't believe that. If you did then you would not support trump since he did more damage to democracy then anyone.

 

[gorfias]

What exactly do you think the point of a primary is, and why do you think parties run primaries? Do you think it's so that the majority of the party can pick the candidate they want in a popular vote? Nope.

It's so that the party can gauge which candidate they think has the best chance of winning a national election. Once they think they've figured that out the best candidate gets becomes the nominee at the convention.

In this case the dems don't need to gauge support for other candidates, because they don't have time and they've already seen that Harris has generally good support in the run-up to the convention. There also haven't been any significant contenders presenting themselves as good alternatives for Harris. It's that simple.

You say that Harris would have been defeated had she run in the primary this time, but who would be running against her? Marianne Williamson and Dean Phillips, neither of who are serious candidates.

The people who voted for Biden in the primary were voting for him with the understanding that Harris would be replacing him if he died, became incapacitated, or otherwise unfit for office. This is literally what has happened and most dem voters are fine with it.

In this thread, we've conversed about a study that found our Federal Government doesn't even really work for us. Credible. Klaus Schwab of the WEF has even stated he thinks it time we end having elections. What he called, "the elite" already know what we want. But we still go thru this thing called voting to at least create the illusion of choice. The primary you describe doesn't even require a vote. So I guess, that's where we are.

You don't believe that. If you did then you would not support trump since he did more damage to democracy then anyone.

I loved that Trump got elected in 2016. I loved that he has all the right enemies and that HRC had all the wrong friends. I love that I think he got elected in spite of the people that run the type of primaries described here by @Dirty Hipsters . That actual people put him in office rather than shadowy puppet masters manipulating us to serve their own self serving machinations. Once in office, save for COVID, he actually seems to know a ton more about how to do the job than did Biden's (now Kamala's) string pullers.

Today, all I can really do is vote how I think best and maybe have an impact. No matter how much the puppet masters hate it.

 

[Kwak]

Today, all I can really do is vote how I think best and maybe have an impact. No matter how much the puppet masters hate it.

Someone so obstinately in denial of consensus reality should not be part of the democratic social process at all and should be sequestered away from mature society where the only damage they can do is to themselves and not the community around them.
No sharp objects and soft pudding is all someone as brainwormed as you deserves.

 

[gorfias]

Someone so obstinately in denial of consensus reality should not be part of the democratic social process at all and should be sequestered away from mature society where the only damage they can do is to themselves and not the community around them.
No sharp objects and soft pudding is all someone as brainwormed as you deserves.

Writes someone I'd think would support the "Extinction and Replacement" agenda of the left, as well as communism, death camps, gulags and killing fields. If all I do is counter the vote of someone like you, I've done the right thing.

 

[Satinavian]

Someone so obstinately in denial of consensus reality should not be part of the democratic social process at all and should be sequestered away from mature society where the only damage they can do is to themselves and not the community around them.
No sharp objects and soft pudding is all someone as brainwormed as you deserves.

I honestly think that is a step too far.

Gorfias has (as far as we know) never shown an inclination to violence or self harm. And just being in the deep end of conspiracy theories is not enough reason to lock someone away.

 

[Hades]

That actual people put him in office rather than shadowy puppet masters manipulating us to serve their own self serving machinations. Once in office, save for COVID, he actually seems to know a ton more about how to do the job than did Biden's (now Kamala's) string pullers.

Uh what are you talking about? The people put Clinton in office but the college whistled them back and forced Trump get get into office. Also Trump the openly corrupt businessman can never be a champion of ''the actual people'' and given his sole legislative achievement was a tax break for the ultra rich he doesn't seem to want to be their champion either.

For someone who ''know a ton more about how to do the job'' its curious how Trump's administration was characterized by incompetence and complete chaos.

 

[gorfias]

Uh what are you talking about? The people put Clinton in office but the college whistled them back and forced Trump get get into office. Also Trump the openly corrupt businessman can never be a champion of ''the actual people'' and given his sole legislative achievement was a tax break for the ultra rich he doesn't seem to want to be their champion either.

For someone who ''know a ton more about how to do the job'' its curious how Trump's administration was characterized by incompetence and complete chaos.

Characterized by who? Our MSM which is owned by some 6 corporations? The Democratic party base that didn't want Roe over-turned? Members of the uniparty that includes puppet string manipulated Republicans aka "RINOs" that "grow" in office?

Those that wanted USSC justices that could tell you what a woman is even if not a biologist really like what Trump did: no new wars, great economy with, relative to inflation, rising wages and so much more. Trump is arguing that had 2020 not been "fortified", 10/7 would not have happened. Ukraine would not have happened. And we would have left Afghanistan with out the catastrophe that it was. And without leaving $80 billion in weapons behind for our adversaries.

Do you think Biden, now Harris' puppet masters, care one whit if the US spends more on NATO than the people of European nations? They get apoplectic when Trump suggests that the US will NOT defend people that do not pay their fair share.

I don't know how military recruitment was under Trump. Will review.

I am hearing that the US military is having a tough time recruiting at this time. They've passed a bill to auto register male US citizens 18-26 rather than self registration of those between 18-25. Is this mostly about efficiency? Dunno why in this day and age self registration would be preferred by anybody.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/house-bill-would-automate-selective-service-registration-already-required-2024-06-26/

EDIT: Looks to have been a steady decline over the years, dipping around 2015, leveling and even rising a bit during Trump, and continue to decline again after 2020.

 

[Silvanus]

Trump is arguing that had 2020 not been "fortified", 10/7 would not have happened. Ukraine would not have happened. And we would have left Afghanistan with out the catastrophe that it was.

Trump organised the catastrophe that was Afghanistan.

Ukraine would have happened regardless. If anything, it would've been earlier and worse, considering Trump is so solidly in Putin's pocket, offering to step aside and allow the annexation of European land.

There's zero reason 10/07 wouldn't have happened if Trump were in office.

He's saying these things because he cannot fathom that the world does not revolve around him.

 

[Hades]

Characterized by who? Our MSM which is owned by some 6 corporations? The Democratic party base that didn't want Roe over-turned? Members of the uniparty that includes puppet string manipulated Republicans aka "RINOs" that "grow" in office?

Everyone who noticed how many of Trump's associates were fired, send to jail or engaged in infighting among each other. Its also fun to point out Trump dangles at the bottom of presidential rankings for a reason. No amount of ''media BAD!'' can disguise that the Trump administration was not a smooth running operation

Even if we were to give Trump the benefit of the doubt and concede he could manage an inherited economy then this is only conditional to Trump keeping his worst impulses in check. And in this he failed. The economic damage of Covid wasn't some natural disaster that befell Trump. The damage was exacerbated by Trump maliciously refusing to do his duty.

Do you think Biden, now Harris' puppet masters, care one whit if the US spends more on NATO than the people of European nations? They get apoplectic when Trump suggests that the US will NOT defend people that do not pay their fair share.

Trump is a demagogue. He's in hostile competition with the US rather than having any real affection to its treasury. If Trump was so attached to it then he'd have treated Covid seriously or not have robbed the secret service. Trump's hatred for NATO has never been about money. Its about his hatred for the free world in general, and his affection for the alternative. Even with spending increased he'd still find a reason to betray us. Which Americans should get apoplectic about given we bleed and die for American's problems, but the moment Europe is in danger rather than return the favor we got one of the two parties advocating for betraying us.

Those that wanted USSC justices that could tell you what a woman is even if not a biologist really like what Trump did: no new wars, great economy with, relative to inflation, rising wages and so much more. Trump is arguing that had 2020 not been "fortified", 10/7 would not have happened. Ukraine would not have happened. And we would have left Afghanistan with out the catastrophe that it was. And without leaving $80 billion in weapons behind for our adversaries.

That's not how it works. With Trump in office Bibi would still have blocked any path to peace, as well as distract Israel by his wacky attempts to overthrow its democracy. Trump's presence would only have reinforced those traits in Bibi because he's always been supportive of it. And the Ukraine argument is especially weird. Why would Putin be held back from attacking Ukraine with his fanboy in the White House? Had Trump won then Trump would have betrayed Ukraine and likely Europe alike the exact moment Putin attacked.

Why would their ideological peer in office be any hindrance to Bibi and Putin?

Furthermore its worth pointing out that Ukraine very likely was the chickens coming home to roost due to in part Trump's actions. Putin thought he could do it because the West was divided, and the prime cause of this divide was the damage the Trump administration had done to the European/American alliance. Its likely he also thought Trump would win and preparations were already too far to cancel when it turned out this wasn't the case, though this last part is admittingly conjecture.

 

[Satinavian]

Do you think Biden, now Harris' puppet masters, care one whit if the US spends more on NATO than the people of European nations? They get apoplectic when Trump suggests that the US will NOT defend people that do not pay their fair share.

Well, under Biden the European countries spend way more on defense than they ever spent under Trump. Not that who is American president has all that much influence on that anyway.

Those that wanted USSC justices that could tell you what a woman is even if not a biologist really like what Trump did: no new wars, great economy with, relative to inflation, rising wages and so much more. Trump is arguing that had 2020 not been "fortified", 10/7 would not have happened. Ukraine would not have happened. And we would have left Afghanistan with out the catastrophe that it was. And without leaving $80 billion in weapons behind for our adversaries.

Oh, yes. The one good thing that can be said about Trump. In contrast to Bush, he didn't start new wars. However, Clinton, Obama and Biden didn't start wars either and Trump had reportedly to be talked out of invading Venezuela and Iran. So, that is not impressive.

As for the middle East, he is only responsible for further escalation : moving the embassy to Jerusalem, killing the nuclear deal with Iran.
Regarding Ukraine he was big friend with Putin and would only have emboldened him.
Yes, the Afghanistan retreat fiasco was also mostly Trumps fault. He negotiated it.

 

[Worgen]

I loved that Trump got elected in 2016. I loved that he has all the right enemies and that HRC had all the wrong friends. I love that I think he got elected in spite of the people that run the type of primaries described here by @Dirty Hipsters . That actual people put him in office rather than shadowy puppet masters manipulating us to serve their own self serving machinations. Once in office, save for COVID, he actually seems to know a ton more about how to do the job than did Biden's (now Kamala's) string pullers.

Today, all I can really do is vote how I think best and maybe have an impact. No matter how much the puppet masters hate it.

That's because you are conspiracy brained and the weird thing about being conspiracy brained is that you ignore the real conspiracies and just go with whatever feels good to you. It feels good to think you are supporting an anti-establishment billionaire and that is where your thought process ends. No more thinking, just good feelings. Pretty much everything you have said here is complete bullshit, but it feels good to you, cause you are conspiracy brained. You don't care about truth or democracy, you just want those good conspiracy feelings.

It really is funny that for all that deep state, puppet master bullshit you believe in. Its coming from inside the house, its trump and his cronies trying to pull that shit.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Someone so obstinately in denial of consensus reality should not be part of the democratic social process at all and should be sequestered away from mature society where the only damage they can do is to themselves and not the community around them.
No sharp objects and soft pudding is all someone as brainwormed as you deserves.

Democracy is great but those I don't like shouldn't be apart of it!!!

 

[BrawlMan]

Snip

How ambitious.

I say this with honest sincerity: I hope your children never end up like you. I know they are grown adults, but I still wish they both surpass you and be a better person than you have ever been.

 

[gorfias]

The economic damage of Covid wasn't some natural disaster that befell Trump. The damage was exacerbated by Trump maliciously refusing to do his duty.

Right around 7:20.


If one thing makes me not want to vote Trump, it is that while he appears to have some buyer's remorse for following the instructions the left wanted, and worse until they installed their own "shambling sh1t heel" of a President into office he hasn't renounced following them. He blamed Biden for excess COVID deaths in the following 2 years and he should not have. His tack should have been that virtually everything we did should not have been done.

As the USA ages, death rates have been going up since around 2010. I don't blame Biden for those excess deaths. I blame Biden for continuing to allow the states to declare emergencies that allowed shut downs, closed businesses, helped cause inflation and shortages, harmed our school aged children retarding their growth. All this after Biden had taken office, the bug was 1 year older, more contagious but less deadly (what viruses tend to do as evolutionary science says that helps them spread and thrive: killing your host ends that vector). and had the clot shot that can kill you ready for distribution. His admin colluded with private businesses to fire people that we had been lauding for taking the front lines (ie nurses) if they didn't take the clot shot, even if they already had natural immunity. All this while Biden had campaigned telling anyone that would listen that he wasn't going to shut down the country, he was going to shut down the virus and then, once installed, did the opposite.

Because of his position on COVID, Trump is in no position to help punish those that did so much to harm us in these recent years.

 

[Silvanus]

Democracy is great but those I don't like shouldn't be apart of it!!!

That's certainly Trump's approach: lipservice to democracy, but if they vote against me, get their electors illegally replaced and their votes thrown out.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

That's certainly Trump's approach: lipservice to democracy, but if they vote against me, get their electors illegally replaced and their votes thrown out.

Democrats literally removed Trump and now JFK Jr from ballots...